KevinG Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I have a question for defenders of the faith (Apologists, TBMs, future General Authorities, etc) and another question for critics of the LDS faith (former-mo's, never-mo's, anti-mo's, devils advocates, fringers, etc)Defenders of the LDS faith: What is your greatest issue with the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?Critics of the LDS faith: What is your greatest reason to like the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?Please no back handed complements or snide jeers at the other side. Give it a page before you start arguing/defending other posts.Thanks in advance for your cooperation and participation!
Rob Bowman Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 DaddyG,I like a lot of things about the LDS Church. I appreciate its affirmation of the crucifixion and bodily resurrection of Christ. I appreciate its pro-life stance and its opposition to same-sex marriage. Those don't exhaust the list, but you asked for the top of the list, so there you go.
Popular Post Freedom Posted December 7, 2011 Popular Post Posted December 7, 2011 I don't have any issues with the church. I do have some issues with some of its members however. 5
KevinG Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 Fair enough Freedom!I am obviously a defender but my biggest issue is that our culture (in the wards where I have experienced it) sometimes confuses confrontation with contention and rewards passive aggressive behavior by avoiding anything that looks like disagreement. This is a cultural phenomenon and not due to any particular doctrine, perhaps the overuse of a strength? 2
Freedom Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 This is true. There is often confusion between being christ-like and having no back bone. When you run a volunteer organization, however, it is difficult to make a balance. At my work I can just fire someone, but at church I have to work with them because the calling is not for the organization but for the individual. One matter that has always frustrated me but that the Church has finally addressed is what constitutes doctrine. I don't know why it took them so many years to finally make a statement on the matter.
Libs Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Critics of the LDS faith: What is your greatest reason to like the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?I like and even agree with some of the doctrine (like we are all children of God and our souls have always existed in some form). I like that LDS doctrine takes a more positive view of humanity than most other Christian religions. The idea that we are born innocent and are responsible only for our own sins.There are a lot of things I like about the church. The LDS people (I have known) are wonderful, and that would be another of the things, at the top of my list. Edited December 7, 2011 by Libs
Honorentheos Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Fair enough Freedom!I am obviously a defender but my biggest issue is that our culture (in the wards where I have experienced it) sometimes confuses confrontation with contention and rewards passive aggressive behavior by avoiding anything that looks like disagreement. This is a cultural phenomenon and not due to any particular doctrine, perhaps the overuse of a strength?I thought we were waiting a page before responding to others posts? As a former believer, I sincerely appreciate the teachings in the church about integrity, honesty, and most importantly - that there is something innately divine in mankind. Anything that inspires us to get in touch with our best selves is doing good.
stemelbow Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 I thought for a while because I do have some issues but I don't now what is the greatest. I guess I would say there is too much pride and self-righteousness and not enough openness. I guess that's not really one thing but to me they seem to all go together. 1
Lost in Ohio Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 As a member one of my personal struggles is with my observation that so many of our senior preisthood leaders Stake Presidencies, Bishops, etc. in the U.S. seem to come from the same background - financially successful professionals (Business, law, medicine, etc.). Again, it's just my personal observation, but having moved 15 times in 25 years it always seems the same with rare exception. So, sometimes I struggle with understanding why it seems that so many good and faithful priesthood holders seem to be excluded from consideration for senior leadership because they don't have professional degrees or MBAs. I realize that I'm speaking in general terms and I'm sure there are exceptions, again, it's just my own observation.Maybe it's just demographics, maybe that's how the Lord is working today, maybe I'm just being prideful and there isn't really an issue at all. 2
Mariner Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 As one who has left the LDS Church, I still find a lot to like about it, or rather the people in it. I liked the Church itself a lot more when I knew less about it.The content in the OP on the Respect for an LDS Church thread pretty much sums up what I see (or saw) as positive about the LDS Church, and that is mainly most of its people (and mainly when they were not in Church).
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Daddy G:My biggest issue isn't very big. But here goes. It is cultural. We tend to be Utahcentric, and veiw the rest of the world through that lens.The only Zion in Utah is Zion National Park. 4
bluebell Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Probably the biggest thing that bugs me is the attitude that the women should take care of the children in church. I know why this attitude has developed-our society has created the necessity that men can't ever be alone with kids without risk to themselves or the children-but it has gotten to the point that three men can't even be in charge of a nursery to babysit for a RS function. There's no logic to that and it can create a burden upon women that is both physical and mental.
Kenngo1969 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Daddy G:My biggest issue isn't very big. But here goes. It is cultural. We tend to be Utahcentric, and veiw the rest of the world through that lens.The only Zion in Utah is Zion National Park. And it's gorgeous! (I wouldn't go this time of year, though! )
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Kenngo 1969:I've been there a few times. It is gorgeous. I liked it even better than the Grand Canyon, an Bryce Canyon. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Daddy G:My biggest issue isn't very big. But here goes. It is cultural. We tend to be Utahcentric, and veiw the rest of the world through that lens.The only Zion in Utah is Zion National Park. I managed the soda fountain bar & grill there one summer and did not find Zion among the worldly tourists, even though the place is indeed lovely. In any case, most Mormons do not live in Utah and are (thankfully) not Utahcentric. Of course, I am speaking as one who was California born and raised.
Popular Post Sky Posted December 7, 2011 Popular Post Posted December 7, 2011 Elder Marlin Jensen summed up very well the thing that I struggle the most with: “We, again, as a church need to be, I think, even more charitable than we've been, more outreaching in a sense. A religion produces a culture, and culture has its stereotypes, has its mores. It's very difficult, for instance, in our culture not to be a returning missionary. What about the young man who chooses not to go, or the parents who marry and for whatever reasons don't have children, or the young woman who grows old without marrying, or the divorced person? I think we can be quite hard -- in a sense unwittingly, but nevertheless hard -- on those people in our culture, because we have cultural expectations, cultural ideals, and if you measure up to them, it's a wonderful life. If you don't, it could be very difficult. …” 6
thesometimesaint Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Robert F. Smith:I've spent most of my life in California. Lived an eternity in Utah for 2 years going to BYU. Those winters were just too hard on me. I'm a confirmed California hot house flower.As a kid spent a lot of time traveling the US. Have only missed the upper north east states and Hawaii.
KevinG Posted December 7, 2011 Author Posted December 7, 2011 We are almost to a page so I'm going to risk more correction by Honorentheos for breaking my own rules... I joke about the Utahcentric thing, but I notice it most when the Bishopric gets a letter from Salt Lake City about some new unorthodox practice the Brethren are trying to warn us against. Every time I see a new one I think "what have those crazy Saints in Utah done this time?"Of course I'm mission field centric and I automatically blame everything on those Utah Saints.
diglot Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) ...Critics of the LDS faith: What is your greatest reason to like the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?...I like the idea of the Temples. The idea that one's religion has a special sanctified place of gathering for only members of the faith (who attain eligibility) always struck me as quite a cool concept.I like the emphasis LDS theology places on marriage, as seen in the teaching of eternal marriage (or "sealing" if that is the more appropriate word).I also like that certain LDS doctrines have antecedents in early Christianity (e.g. three degrees of glory), which are not really found in mainstream Christianity. Edited December 7, 2011 by diglot
CV75 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Defenders of the LDS faith: What is your greatest issue with the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?I must honestly say I have no complaint or problem with the Church as it is today, but that might be more because of what I am today than what the Church is.In the past, I have never taken exception to the doctrines. As a new college-age convert some 35+ years ago, I mocked some of the practices (roadshows, Blue and Green (Gold?) Ball, and poor production values in some of the films/filmstrips), but I think that was more a function of personality and maturity. White shirts / no-beard and other similar standards never really bothered me. The most I've ever been annoyed with was the culture clash with "Utah Mormons" but as I grew in understanding I realized that had more to do with individuals and their "rural western" culture than with Mormonism. Which leads me to the most misguided application of Mormon-influenced culture I have ever experienced: those musicals! UGH! Edited December 7, 2011 by CV75
TruthSeeker24 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 mmm as a firm believer in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (though not a member), I guess I feel like people either really social with very little understanding of Mormonism, or are very intelligent when it comes to Mormonism, yet they seem to have gone away from the idea of testimony, spirit, witness, and all that jazz, to becoming "brainy" lol. Seriously, sometimes I wish Mormon scholars would just write in simple words for everyone to easily understand...kind of like Nephi talked about in the Book of Mormon.
TruthSeeker24 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 My problem is definitely the fact that there's WAY to much arguing amongst the scholars lol. Sometimes I get on this site and I wonder if we're our own worst enemy lol. I thought we were supposed to be on the same side lol. And enough of the whole "trying to sound smart" crap lol. Just talk lol.
LeSellers Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) I mocked some of the practices (roadshows, Blue and Green (Gold?) Ball, ...Gold and Green, the YM/YW Mutual Improvement Association colors.Blue and Gold dinners were part of the Cub Scout program. I believe they were originally a fund-raising activity, and now something of a super Court of Honor for those units that actually hold them.Lehi Edited December 7, 2011 by LeSellers
Damien the Leper Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Defenders of the LDS faith: What is your greatest issue with the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?Critics of the LDS faith: What is your greatest reason to like the church as it is today (doctrinal, practices or cultural)?I consider myself a member of the church because I agree more with it than I disagree with it.As a defender, my greatest issue is the disciplinary actions taken against LDS academics such as D. Michael Quinn, Thomas Murphy, Margaret Merrill Toscano, Avraham Gileadi, Janice Merrill Allred, etc. and the problematic relationship between BYU administration and certain professors such as Cecilia Farr and David Knowlton. I disagree with the intellectual witch hunt that has plagued the church as propogated by Boyd Packer, Dallin Oaks and Gordon Hinckley.As a critic, I love most about the church is its unwavering idealism on the relationship between the Creator and the created. I see that relationship as the center of all good and all blessings. 1
CV75 Posted December 7, 2011 Posted December 7, 2011 Gold and Green, the YM/YW Mutual Improvement Association colors.Blue and Gold dinners were part of the Cub Scout program. I believe they were originally a fund-raising activity, and now something of a super Court of Honor for those units that actually hold them.LehiThank you! The ol' memory ain't what it used to be--that's why I don't look back too much...Nothing wrong with Cub Scout dinners as far as I'm concerned (I was involved with that and Scouting for many years as the kids grew up--mostly to keep an eye on the adults). There was some kind of annual dance with 2 colors that had some sort of historical significance to it, maybe that was just my ward/stake.
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