Never Married

[Thinking]

I remember learning that if a faithful LDS woman never had the opportunity to marry, she would be given to a worthy man in the next life. If memory serves me correctly, it seems that I was taught that an unmarried LDS male would not have the same opportunity.

Does anybody else remember being taught this?

Is it pseudo doctrine?

Are there any references?

Thanks.

[thesometimesaint]

Thinking:

There is not one set of rules for men and and another set for women. A worthy man that never has a legitimate opportunity to marry in this life, will be given that opportunity in the next. Just like a worthy woman.

[Calm]

May I hasten to add that no blessing, including that of eternal marriage and an eternal family, will be denied to any worthy individual. While it may take somewhat longer—perhaps even beyond this mortal life—for some to achieve this blessing, it will not be denied.

http://lds.org/liahona/1990/08/the-church-is-for-all-people?lang=eng&noLang=true&path=/liahona/1990/08/the-church-is-for-all-people

[cinepro]

Thinking:

There is not one set of rules for men and and another set for women. A worthy man that never has a legitimate opportunity to marry in this life, will be given that opportunity in the next. Just like a worthy woman.

I can't wait to see a post-mortal man of 2011 talking to a pioneer bachelor.

Pioneer: I never married. Unfortunately, my family was sent to colonize south eastern Utah territory shortly after our arrival in the valley, and I was just 9 years old. I spent the rest of my life there, and there were only 6 other women of marriageable age. I tried to court each of them, but they either moved or became wives of other men of stature in the Church. I intended to visit the settlements to find a bride, but my father and mother took ill, and I had to care for my younger siblings. I passed away from cholera before my 30th birthday. I only wish I had the chance to have found the blessings of marriage.

Bachelor: I too never had a chance to marry. There were 42 young women in my ward growing up, but none of them really did much for me. One was kind of nice, but she wore glasses and had small breasts*, and that just isn't my "type", if you know what I mean. After my mission, I went to BYU, and even though there were around 13,000 women there, I wanted to spend more time studying and playing collegiate Quidditch, so I didn't meet many girls. I did get set up on some dates, and had plenty of great NCMO, but nothing stuck. After college, I got fast-tracked at Franklin-Covey and I just didn't have time to get serious. I considered trying to find someone on an online singles site, and while they had over 100,000 LDS women on the site, I didn't want to take away from my WOW time. And a lot of those women were my age (or older!) I was golfing at Sky Mountain when I had a heart attack, and I was only 63. So yeah, I totally know what you mean about not having an opportunity.

*Yes, I actually know a guy who said this about a girl in his ward.

Edited August 1, 2011 by cinepro

[Duncan]

Some people,male or female,just don't live in high LDS areas and so dating opportunities are few and far between almost nil sometimes and so honestly I don't see a problem with members dating non-members and just because two Mormons are Mormons doesn't mean they click or are attracted to each other. So I hope God gives people an opportunity or something of a chance to meet someone

[Hamba Tuhan]

From Book 2 of the Church Handbook of Instructions:

Unmarried Members of the Church

All members, even if they have never married or are without family in the Church, should strive for the ideal of living in an eternal family. This means preparing to become worthy spouses and loving fathers or mothers. In some cases these blessings will not be fulfilled until the next life, but the ultimate goal is the same for all.

Faithful members whose circumstances do not allow them to receive the blessings of eternal marriage and parenthood in this life will receive all promised blessings in the eternities, provided they keep the covenants they have made with God.

[elguanteloko]

Paul has quite a different view of marriage, you guys:

1 Corinthians 7

⁸ Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. ⁹ But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

[Duncan]

Paul has quite a different view of marriage, you guys:

1 Corinthians 7

the KJV says, "abide"

http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-cor/7?lang=eng

Either way do something! Don't be mopey!

[BCSpace]

I remember learning that if a faithful LDS woman never had the opportunity to marry, she would be given to a worthy man in the next life. If memory serves me correctly, it seems that I was taught that an unmarried LDS male would not have the same opportunity.

Does anybody else remember being taught this?

I've never heard that. But if a woman has an opportunity, don't you think the man she ends up with is also getting a similar opportunity?

Now if a man never marries, he will still be treated as a menace to society and never be let near the harem. <---- my personal doctrine

[HeatherAnn]

I realize that for various reasons, some never marry, but I'd like to point out, that it is healthy to develop relationships of the opposite sex - friends or familiy if not marriage.

Like kids, need both a mother & father for balance, we need the opposite sex's perspective to help us balance our own.

Some people,male or female,just don't live in high LDS areas and so dating opportunities are few and far between almost nil sometimes and so honestly I don't see a problem with members dating non-members and just because two Mormons are Mormons doesn't mean they click or are attracted to each other. So I hope God gives people an opportunity or something of a chance to meet someone

Good point.

When I used to post on another forum, some felt like they had to either stay in the church or hate it with a vengence... & had no other options.

Unfortunately a lot of couples divorced because of one spouse's religious belief changes. It's as if the marriage is based on religious affiliation more than on the love they shared for each other.

I've had struggles in my marriage because of this... My husband threatened to divorce because of how my beliefs changed.

It probably has something to do with the misconception that if someone questions LDS beliefs, they are or will live an exceptionally sinful life, when that often isn't the case.

[elguanteloko]

the KJV says, "abide"

No difference. The point is that Paul's tone about marriage is definitely not something you would expect AT ALL from a General Authority these days. Very curious thing to see.

Edited August 1, 2011 by elguanteloko

[HeatherAnn]

Paul has quite a different view of marriage, you guys:

1 Corinthians 7

To this day, I wonder about that scripture, because I believe to be "whole" in body & spirit, we need the opposite sex, in marriage.

Yet, I also wonder about a similar scripture... When asked if a wife was a widower, & remarried, who'd be her husband afterlife,

"Jesus answered & said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven"

Then he explained, "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." (Matt 22:29-32)

I think this means that how we consider & relate to God is unique to how we will after death.

Also, I believe that just as we magnetically attract or relate to energy we're familiar with, so it will be after death.

So, whether we marry in the temple, out of the temple, or not at all... we will be drawn to like energy.

[Ahab]

I remember learning that if a faithful LDS woman never had the opportunity to marry, she would be given to a worthy man in the next life. If memory serves me correctly, it seems that I was taught that an unmarried LDS male would not have the same opportunity.

Does anybody else remember being taught this?

Is it pseudo doctrine?

Are there any references?

Thanks.

Just so you know, or just so I know that I told you, we all have until the "next life" to get married, and the "next life" referred to is the life after everyone is resurrected.

Some people mistakenly think the "next life" includes the time in our lives between our mortal death and our resurrection.

Think of having that much time to get married and you may then realize we all have more time than some people think.

After we are all resurrected it will no longer be possible for any of us who didn't get married to get married, though.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Ahab

[bclaggett]

I'm researching this topic for our Elder's Quorum lesson on Eternal Marriage. We have at least one never-married member of the quorum. A faithful member but not the type of guy most LDS women would find attractive. He doesn't have much concern for his clothing, his teeth badly need dental work, and he usually is under- or unemployed. I want to be able to answer the question posed by Cold Caffeine Lover. I cannot find any scriptural foundation for eternal families and progression based on some kind of marriage after mortality.

The Gospel Principles manual states:

"All members, whether married or single, need to understand the doctrine of eternal marriage. However, you should be sensitive to the feelings of adults who are not married. As needed, help class members or family members know that all Heavenly Father’s children who are faithful to their covenants in this life will have the opportunity to receive all the blessings of the gospel in the eternities, including the opportunity to have an eternal family." (Chapter 38: Eternal Marriage," Gospel Principles, (2009))

Note that the manual states "all the blessings of the gospel," which I presume to include eternal families and the blessings of a temple marriage.

President Kimball wrote,

"

There are others who have never married because they have had no opportunity. We know, of course, that the Lord will make ample provision and that no one will ever be condemned for something he or she could not have helped. This is the Lord’s program.

" (

The Lord’s Plan for Men and Women,

President Spencer W. Kimball June Conference, June 27, 1975)

In Book 2 of the Church Handbook of Instructions, it says,

"

All members, even if they have never married or are without family in the Church, should strive for the ideal of living in an eternal family. This means preparing to become worthy spouses and loving fathers or mothers. In some cases these blessings will not be fulfilled until the next life, but the ultimate goal is the same for all. Faithful members whose circumstances do not allow them to receive the blessings of eternal marriage and parenthood in this life will receive all promised blessings in the eternities, provided they keep the covenants they have made with God.

" (

Book 2,

Church Handbook of Instructions.

Section 1.3.3

)

The Church says that all doctrine is contained in the scriptures.

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the

First Presidency

(the prophet and his two counselors) and the

Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

(the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the

Holy Bible

, the

Book of Mormon

, the

Doctrine and Covenants

and the

Pearl of Great Price

), official declarations and proclamations, and the

Articles of Faith

. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. (

Approaching Mormon Doctrine

)

The scriptures quote Jesus as saying:

"

Jesus answered & said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven"

Then he explained, "God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

(Matt 22:29-32)

I have read lay person's assertions that eternal progression for unmarried members may take place in the Millenium. But I cannot find a scriptural or doctrinal foundation for this belief nor for the statements in either the Church Handbook or even Kimball's talk. The Church leadership isn't supposed to make doctrine up. Does anyone have any foundation for the idea that never-married members can progress eternally?

Thanks for your thoughts.

B

[thesometimesaint]

bclaggett:

I know of no direct statement by the GA's. BTST I know of nothing that limit eternal progress just to the narried couples either.

[Deborah]

I can't wait to see a post-mortal man of 2011 talking to a pioneer bachelor.

Cinepro, as often as I disagree with you, you presented a great illustration of what constitutes opportunity versus selfishness. I know a wonderful man in his 60's who never married because he spent his life caring for an ailing mother. I've known a lot of what you describe in your second example and I know a lot of frustrated young women who describe the young men they meet as immature and non-commital. I think the Lord knows the heart of everyone and will judge accordingly and in the end I think each person will judge himself on how he behaved and whether he actually missed opportunities because of childish goals.

BTW, having been single myself for many years now and having been very active in the LDS dating scene in my late 30's and 40's I can tell you women that age and older were very frustrated at the men their age wanting to find the sweet young thing who'd never been married. I also had male friends who were overweight and not all that attractive whose goal was to get the slim, beautiful young woman. I told one friend that he needed to set his sights more realistically.

When I was in my 40's I met a man I was very much in love with. But he just could not deal with my four children. I couldn't blame him. That was a lot for someone who'd never been married to take on. I broke it off with him because I told him he needed to find someone who'd not been married before and wanted children (I didn't want any more). He met a woman in her 30's who'd never been married. They ended up getting married and had a baby. I was so happy for him. What I learned is that when someone wants to get married he will find the right person, even if he has a disappointment in between. I've also learned that marriage is more a matter of timing than it is meeting the right person.

[Deborah]

I have read lay person's assertions that eternal progression for unmarried members may take place in the Millenium.

You do understand that repentance and opportunities assigned to mortality continue until we are resurrected, which is why we have work for the dead. So it would make sense if a man or a woman really do not have an opportunity for marriage in this life they may meet after death and still be sealed to each other in the Millennium, which is when all the final work will be done. I think your use of the term "eternal progression" is throwing you. We are talking about the probationary state which continues until the body receives its resurrected glory, and one has earned eternal life, or God's life.

[BCSpace]

Bachelor: I too never had a chance to marry. There were 42 young women in my ward growing up, but none of them really did much for me. One was kind of nice, but she wore glasses and had small breasts*, and that just isn't my "type", if you know what I mean.

The scriptures imply the necessity of sexual attraction in marriage.

After my mission, I went to BYU, and even though there were around 13,000 women there, I wanted to spend more time studying and playing collegiate Quidditch, so I didn't meet many girls. I did get set up on some dates, and had plenty of great NCMO, but nothing stuck. After college, I got fast-tracked at Franklin-Covey and I just didn't have time to get serious. I considered trying to find someone on an online singles site, and while they had over 100,000 LDS women on the site, I didn't want to take away from my WOW time. And a lot of those women were my age (or older!) I was golfing at Sky Mountain when I had a heart attack, and I was only 63. So yeah, I totally know what you mean about not having an opportunity.

This is more analogous to having heard the gospel in this life and not accepting it until the next.

[Messenger]

Here is what I found .......

President Howard W. Hunter

“The prophets of the past have spoken also of those who may not have opportunity to marry in this life. President Lorenzo Snow said:

“‘There is no Latter-day Saint who dies after having lived a faithful life who will lose anything because of having failed to do certain things when opportunities were not furnished him or her. In other words, if a young man or a young woman has no opportunity of getting married, and they live faithful lives up to the time of their death, they will have all the blessings, exaltation, and glory that any man or woman will have who had this opportunity and improved it. That is sure and positive’ ( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams [salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984], p. 138).

“I believe President Snow’s statement to be true” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1994, 67; or Ensign, Nov. 1994, 49–50 ).

Source: http://institute.lds.org/manuals/eternal-marriage-student-manual/p-parenthood-1e.asp

Perhaps, we single men that simply have not had the opportunity, really arent a menace to society anyways. That is, unless I am being one now!

The question is, what truley constitues someone NOT having an opportunity?

What are the physical or mental conditions that would constitute a no opportunity?

1) Downs Syndrome

2) Autism

3) ADHD

4) SSA

5) Paralized

6) others ....

I have severe ADHD, and I know from my studies this makes a solid marriage next to impossible due to the extreme difficulty in relationships. With the condition, it makes it difficult to understand the nuances of a relationship simply because how my brain works. They wife would need to be incredibly understanding and forgiving in order for that sort of thing to happen. My first marriage failed with I was undaignosed. Friendships alone are difficult enough, I cant imagine putting that through anybody again.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Messenger

[Rob Osborn]

I don't understand where this whole "opportunity" bit comes from? I have heard this my whole life in the church about if or if not one had the "opportunity" in mortality. I hardly think heaven and eternity works that way. I view it more as at some point everyone will have ample opportunities and according to their excersize of righteous agency they can fulfill all of those desires promised them in eternity. We get so concerned about "what constitutes an opportunity" that we forget the principle involved and that heaven doesn't work that way anyway. My belief is that even if we turn down opportunities for marriage and then die and realize the importance of marriage that we will still have opportunities at that point and afterwards to get married. There are many reason people don't get married or get divorced and never get married again. God didn't create us to be single. As we proceed through this life and the next and our bodies reach closer to perfection (yes in every physical way too!) we shall find the absolute necessity of being married. I honestly believe that in the next life we will learn that salvation from h*** is dependent upon us fulfilling the measure of our creation which includes eternal marriage. Perhaps we do not realize but after we are dead and realize the problems each of us had in mortality and that the circumstances that shaped us were but just a twisted fragment of time, we shall come to know who we are, why we were created (to become Gods ourselves) and for no other reason do we exist other than to fulfill the full measure of our creation. God will never stop the work he is doing to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of all of his children. He has ample provisions in place to ensure that all eternal blessings will come to all his children who desire it. There will not ever be some ultimate deadline where if crossed will prevent a man or women in eternity to be single forever. I Guarentee you that!

[Duncan]

some people live in areas with hardly any LDS and so their opportunities are limited, plus some live in areas that have an over abundance of folks and some just never get got or just never meet anyone they are compatible with-I have some wonderful friends in that situation. Then again I know some extremely shallow people who are either married or not. I have come to the conclusion that it is indeed a mystery why certain folks are married or not married or still married!

Edited August 26, 2011 by Duncan

[Messenger]

I think it’s important for people to understand for themselves what opportunities might truly mean. In the end I think we'll come to the conclusion that we don’t set those parameters, but we may try and understand them. I, like others that have posted, view that marriage will probably be the ultimate way we end up in this life or the life after.

I was disturbed when preparing a lesson on marriage in the high priest group several weeks ago. The lesson was on marriage. And, when preparing I got the distinct impression that most people in my ward didn’t understand that there were some people in this life that were simply not going to have that opportunity. These include some people that are paralyzed, have autism or ADHD and others. When I gave the lesson I gave examples of people that had died very young, and asked the group if any of them thought they would have the opportunity to be married for all time and eternity at a later time. NOT ONE RAISED THIER HAND! I definitely had an 'Ah Ha' moment. Then suddenly it made sense why so many people judge me, not being married. I’m ok with that, it’s their problem not mine. But, I see this subject as a major stumbling block in our understanding in how the gospel works. Clearly, we have a long way to go.

Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin, "Come What May, and Love It"

October 2008 General Confernce

The Principle of Compensation

"The third thing we can do is understand the principle of compensation. The Lord compensates the faithful for every loss. That which is taken away from those who love the Lord will be added unto them in His own way. While it may not come at the time we desire, the faithful will know that every tear today will eventually be returned a hundredfold with tears of rejoicing and gratitude.

One of the blessings of the gospel is the knowledge that when the curtain of death signals the end of our mortal lives, life will continue on the other side of the veil. There we will be given new opportunities. Not even death can take from us the eternal blessings promised by a loving Heavenly Father."

So, when I read about the principle of compensation it makes perfect gospel sence. But other speeches really don't help when the membership is constantly being hammered with talks about people not getting married rather than why they arent. To me it seems that there is a lot of confusion about the subject, and a lot of incorrect judgments on single people because of it. Personally, I look forward to the say when the prophet stands up during general conference and announces that all single men are no longer a menace to society. I don’t think people realize what impact Ezra Taft Benson’s speech had when he said that at BYU when I was there. I heard his words myself. His words where that any single man, that is over 27 years old, was a menace to society. I was there, I heard it myself and I dropped my jaw. But that speech has not been published on the church website nor can I find it on the web. Its speeches like those, that draw us further apart, and away from true understanding, and in some cases compassion.

When I go to church, I don’t see any handicapped people there. Not one wheelchair. I don’t see anybody with downs either. I can’t help to think that our self-righteous attitudes are somehow making them and some of us uncomfortable. It’s probably why I don’t take a lot of concern over what other members think of me. I just do the best I can. That won’t always work for people that have a disability that depend on others. Again, I think we have a long way to go.

Edited August 27, 2011 by Messenger

[TAO]

I think this is explained in D&C 132:15-16 rather well.

15 Therefore, if a ^aman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

So you have to be sealed in order to be married in the eternities. This can be done by proxy when you are dead though, which tends to support what the apostles and prophets have been saying. If you weren't sealed, and you were worthy... perhaps you will be sealed in the millennium? This is just a guess, of course. I don't know 100% for sure.

[Messenger]

I think this is explained in D&C 132:15-16 rather well.

So you have to be sealed in order to be married in the eternities. This can be done by proxy when you are dead though, which tends to support what the apostles and prophets have been saying. If you weren't sealed, and you were worthy... perhaps you will be sealed in the millennium? This is just a guess, of course. I don't know 100% for sure.

I think there is no doubt, at least in my opinion, that you have to be sealed to be married in the eternities. But then, there are two directions. 1) What happens to those that want to be married in the eternities that are not and are dead. 2) What happens to those that do NOT want to me married in the eternities and are dead.

When I see the pattern of the Gospel, including baptisms for the dead, and sealings for the dead who were married hear on earth and are now dead, it would only make sense that they would have other opportunities after death. Especially since two prophets have said so.

However, its clear that alot of people have different opinions. Im not sure I would be content simply being an angel.