Transitioning To A Divorced Member In The Church

[auteur55]

Any divorcees here willing to share their experiences and tell me how they got through the divorce, protected their children and moved on with life.

I would love to hear some success stories as I proceed through this horrible time in me and my childs life.

Sincerely,

Auteur55

[Garden Girl]

Hello auteur...

Well it's been several months since you've posted about this, and I see your divorce will soon be final.

I don't have personal divorce experience from an adult perspective... but I was a child whose father ran off and left me, and my mom and sis. So my mom became a single mom in an era where divorce was almost a scandal.

Mom became a convert, but she always had the same type of standards as the Church... so:

1) she always chose to live faithfully by those standards...

2) she surrounded herself with good women friends with similar standards...

3) she was active in Campfire Girls for the benefit of my sis and me, and for her own social life...

4) she made a clean, cheerful home for us...

5) she set the example for us, teaching us to pray, pay our tithing (even when money was so very tight and food rationed in WWII), and to have faith...

6) she finally met a fine, upstanding man through a Campfire friend (He was also divorced with full custody of a daughter)...

7) she was careful about remarrying... eventually she did marry this good man... who converted, and to whom I'm sealed as part of an eternal family.

They were married for almost 50 years... I grew up in a busy, active LDS family, that knelt together each night for family prayer (what a feeling of comfort that gave me as I turned in for the night).

I cherish my memories of my childhood, and my family... I, myself, had a wonderful marriage that lasted 38 years until my dh passed away after complications from surgery.

So what advice can I give you... simply to not lose hope, or faith, but live the gospel, stay faithful, and participate in good, uplifting activities... and eventually I hope you will meet an LDS woman to walk at your side... to be a step-mother to your child, and perhaps you to be a step-father to hers, and then maybe some "ours" thrown in.

Good luck...

GG

[auteur55]

sorry this should have been posted in the social forum which is what I thought I was in. Too careless. mods can you move it for me?

[Duncan]

sorry this should have been posted in the social forum which is what I thought I was in. Too careless. mods can you move it for me?

I PMd you

[Mars]

[Daniel2]

You might try looking into some local divorce support groups. I know there's a "Surviving and Thriving through a Divorce" group that meets regularly in Utah County.

(I haven't attended, because my circumstances didn't dovetail real well with the individuals and prevailing religious sentiment found within that group--but it might help in your case).

Darin

[blueadept]

Any divorcees here willing to share their experiences and tell me how they got through the divorce, protected their children and moved on with life.

I would love to hear some success stories as I proceed through this horrible time in me and my childs life.

Sincerely,

Auteur55

Hey Auteur,

As a MD&D member who has been divorced for 8 months now, I suggest for you to continue to develop the necessary support groups to get you through these difficult times. You have your support from church and from here, may I suggest a book for you 'Getting Past Your Breakup' by Susan Elliott. The book is great and she always has relevant articles on her website. There is a subscription for the website, but I find the info and support group worth the price. Good luck with the healing process.

[Messenger]

Any divorcees here willing to share their experiences and tell me how they got through the divorce, protected their children and moved on with life.

I would love to hear some success stories as I proceed through this horrible time in me and my childs life.

Sincerely,

Auteur55

Auteur,

Thats a great topic, one that is probably the most challenging in my life. I think I'll begin by sharing a poem I wrote so that other people might understand the situation. Also, I would just like to remind you that I had, but didnt know until recently, Adult ADHD. Social problems are very difficult for people like me. Divorce, with the kids being with the mother as a matter of protocol, was difficult. But, in the end & looking back as well as considering I had ADHD and traveleing all over the USA for my job as a project manager in the DSL telecom area, there really wasnt a better choice anyways.

In the end, make the difference that you can. For the part that you cant, time will heal. Now, 11 years later, my Son and I have a great relationship. Although I couldnt see it at the time. This poem is intense, I hope I dont offend anybody.

Divorced Dad

By Mark

March 25, 2000

Life is better now and is more tolerable.

But the part that’s missing makes my life empty, not whole.

The absence of my kids is nearly unbearable.

The visit with them is now nearly complete,

only hours & minutes before they go.

The moment of joy then sorrow is at my feet.

They said that a man is built to conquer his emotions,

It’s like climbing mountain peak, with absolute control.

But my love for them is bigger than all the mountains and all the oceans.

I wonder, “will they love me”, as the years go by?

Will it be something they’ll believe and know?

Will my love be as big to them, or seem like a lie?

This challenge has no paths and no roads.

There is no way to build one here, and no way to leave.

My feelings of love never sleep, a trap set by someone whom I don’t know.

So here I am, with love inside that never ceases,

it’s like a warm breezy day, without a kite.

It’s the kind that hopelessly tries, but never pleases.

Oh God! I’m now a divorced father, it seems I have no honor.

Surely this is hell, or worse, not quite.

If it were hell, my love for them wouldn’t matter.

But the kind of father I am makes it matter,

How much longer must I wait?

Will it ever end? Will it ever get better?

If it does or if it doesn’t, it’s a sacrifice that wasn’t chosen.

A sacrifice made by many, the kind that keeps me awake.

The mountain seems too big, and certainly, much less the ocean.

This poem is copywritten by me.

Edited May 25, 2011 by Messenger

[Zeta-Flux]

A few bits of advice:

Be honest with your children. They will probably still want to be with their mom and with you, so don't try to force them away from her unless she is dangerous.

Listen to what they want, and be willing to compromise. Tell them what you want, how much time you want with them, and explain what the courts will ask them (etc...).

[One Clear Voice]

Any divorcees here willing to share their experiences and tell me how they got through the divorce, protected their children and moved on with life.

I would love to hear some success stories as I proceed through this horrible time in me and my childs life.

Sincerely,

Auteur55

NO matter at what cost, always put the best interests and Love of your Children first and formost, and never ever ever say anything negative about your spouse in front of the Children, no matter how difficult it gets. Only then you will be successful in being a great parent and leader!

[Calm]

NO matter at what cost, always put the best interests and Love of your Children first and formost

I would agree with this save to point out that sometimes putting the children always first in the short run can mean not being able to put them first in the long run...IOW be wise and do not overextend yourself by doing all for your children and none for yourself or your own support group. Even in this area, one needs balance.

[Messenger]

I would caution that in some instances, you will find that the ex, wife or husband, who has assumed custody of the kids (which is the wife for most states) may act to block any attempts for you to put the kids first. It allows circumstances for further abuse by that spouse. My ex-wife told me the day that the kids left, that my son got sick in the car on the way to her house, and she had to pull over. My son has never got car sick, but she implied it was because of the situation. For years, that bothered me. I wanted so desperately to end the marriage in the right way. But in a fit of rage, she denied me that opportunity, and the kids the same opportunity. For years I was guilt ridden.

Last month, my son visited me for the first time in 11 years. He told me he never did get sick on the way home. Further he never blamed me for any of it. My advice, stick to what you know is right, and what you don’t know, find out through prayer.

So, be careful that your ex is not manipulating you further after the divorce. There are many instances where the ex will use your love for your children as a lever. They shouldn’t, but sometimes they do. Remember, they have their free agency to act as they choose, and since they have the kids, there are plenty of opportunities for them to continue to abuse you, and your kids. It’s not unusual for the spouse that has the kids to tell them, when they are young, after the divorce, that daddy is dead. This has happened to two of my friends.

There is absolutely no situation that is the same. Every divorce is different, and I testify there is none that are exactly the same. Be aware that any advice you get, will more than likely be 99.999999999999999999% wrong for your situation. But, nonetheless, everyone will give it to you and expect that you take it.

In the end, it’s between you and Heavenly Father. No doubt when you follow him, you will be upsetting every, and any other family member for not taking their advice. But, in the end, the best choice is to always follow Heavenly Father. Nothing else matters - period.

[auteur55]

Thanks for everyone's great comments. This is without a doubt the greatest trial I've endured and there are days I'm not sure I'll survive it. To make matters worse my ex-wife has completely left the church, and appears to only have marginal concern for how her daughter will respond to this. I have reason to believe a mental illness is driving much of her tragic behavior. My worry for my child is endless day after day.

The good news is so far it looks like we won't have a custody battle. I'll keep my child with me until we get closer to where the mother lives (who knows when that will be) and when that happens she has her Tuesday, Wednesday and every other weekend. Not a bad deal for me. I just hope that holds up during the dissolusion.

My other struggle is understanding how someone could do this to their family. There is another father I know in my old ward who left his wife and 4 children for a younger woman. He only see's them every other weekend. He was always a good member of the church from what I could tell. I simply don't get how people make decisions that move forward their own self interest while destroying the lives of those they are supposed to protect and love. These are strange times.

Edited May 27, 2011 by auteur55

[ERayR]

Thanks for everyone's great comments. This is without a doubt the greatest trial I've endured and there are days I'm not sure I'll survive it. To make matters worse my ex-wife has completely left the church, and appears to only have marginal concern for how her daughter will respond to this. I have reason to believe a mental illness is driving much of her tragic behavior. My worry for my child is endless day after day.

The good news is so far it looks like we won't have a custody battle. I'll keep my child with me until we get closer to where the mother lives (who knows when that will be) and when that happens she has her Tuesday, Wednesday and every other weekend. Not a bad deal for me. I just hope that holds up during the dissolusion.

My other struggle is understanding how someone could do this to their family. There is another father I know in my old ward who left his wife and 4 children for a younger woman. He only see's them every other weekend. He was always a good member of the church from what I could tell. I simply don't get how people make decisions that move forward their own self interest while destroying the lives of those they are supposed to protect and love. These are strange times.

My only advice is first pray every day and I mean fervent prayer. Then always look for the best interest of the child(ren) no matter what it costs you, financially and emotionally.

[Mark Beesley]

Be friends with your ex. Just cause you can't live together doesn't mean you can't be friends.

Be generous with your ex. Sacrfice is an eternal principle.

Forgive yourself. Until you have forgiven yourself, it is nearly impossible to forgive others.

Don't expect your ex to always reciprocate your friendliness, generosity, and forgiveness. (Matthew 5:46-48)

Finally, never, ever, ever call your next wife or girlfriend by your ex's name.

[Messenger]

My only advice is first pray every day and I mean fervent prayer.

No doubt.

always look for the best interest of the child(ren) no matter what it costs you, financially and emotionally.

I think this is bad advice. Sorry ERayR. The Heavenly Father I know would never want me to be finacially and emotionally wrecked and indebted to another person (children or not). Our emotional bank account is just as important as our financial bank account.

Pay your support that the state says you owe. But be careful that the state has all the evidence of both incomes. Its quite common for a spouse to get on any of the tax programs out there and 'make up' a low false income, sign it, and use that as evidence of income. I asked the state to determine her income and we found that she was lying. The state reduced the amount of child support to the fair and equitable amount it should be --- it was reduced by over half. No more vactions with the kids to Hawaii twice a year when I havent had one in 11 years.

There is plenty of advice from the church about living within your means. What kind of example are we to our children if we are not wise with either of these. When we are not, we damage our own spirituality. This is the trap that divorce gets us in. Further, when we throw all of our money at our ex-spouse, how does that help them spiritually? Winning the lottery never did anybody any spiritual good.

You have to be smart about your child support. Throwing money at the problem simply makes it worse.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Messenger

[ERayR]

No doubt.

I think this is bad advice. Sorry ERayR. The Heavenly Father I know would never want me to be finacially and emotionally wrecked and indebted to another person (children or not). Our emotional bank account is just as important as our financial bank account.

Pay your support that the state says you owe. But be careful that the state has all the evidence of both incomes. Its quite common for a spouse to get on any of the tax programs out there and 'make up' a low false income, sign it, and use that as evidence of income. I asked the state to determine her income and we found that she was lying. The state reduced the amount of child support to the fair and equitable amount it should be --- it was reduced by over half. No more vactions with the kids to Hawaii twice a year when I havent had one in 11 years.

There is plenty of advice from the church about living within your means. What kind of example are we to our children if we are not wise with either of these. When we are not, we damage our own spirituality. This is the trap that divorce gets us in. Further, when we throw all of our money at our ex-spouse, how does that help them spiritually? Winning the lottery never did anybody any spiritual good.

You have to be smart about your child support. Throwing money at the problem simply makes it worse.

Perhaps you misunderstood. I said look out for the best interests of the children no matter the cost. The children are most often the neglected ones, both spouses jockeying for power and position, looking out for their own best interests and the children pay the price and have no say in the matter.

There is also plenty of advice from the church about taking care of your family. There is also this Doctrine and Covenants 75:28

And again, verily I say unto you, that every man who is obliged to provide for his own family, let him provide, and he shall in nowise lose his crown; and let him labor in the church.

Edited May 29, 2011 by ERayR

[Deborah]

I don't know if Parents without Partners is still active but I really enjoyed those meetings. Not only could you commiserate with others but you have a group to socialize with who're going through what you are.

I was also fortunate to have a group of single LDS friends to hang with. We had family home evenings, hiking trips, potlucks, all with our kids invited. It was a great support group. All this was on our own, not related to an organized program and we were all from different areas in Calif.

[Messenger]

Perhaps you misunderstood. I said look out for the best interests of the children no matter the cost. The children are most often the neglected ones, both spouses jockeying for power and position, looking out for their own best interests and the children pay the price and have no say in the matter.

There is also plenty of advice from the church about taking care of your family. There is also this Doctrine and Covenants 75:28

And again, verily I say unto you, that every aman who is obliged to bprovide for his own cfamily, let him provide, and he shall in nowise lose his crown; and let him labor in the church.

ERayR,

Nothing wrong with providing for the kids at all – both spouses should. Also take interest and love in your kids - No doubt. Don’t abandon your kids - all good. But what you said above is a lot different than your original post. Perhaps it’s a point worth clarifying. It’s common among people to say that the kids must be given everything they want no matter what the cost - emotionally and financially: Which is what was in your original post. Like I said, it’s common for people to say that without really thinking about what they are saying. Far too many people say it, and accidently judge parents if they don't. There is no scripture, no law, or doctrinal point that says that.

Thanks for pointing out those scriptures. Supporting your kids is one thing, but over-supporting them no matter what the cost to the parent no matter the financial or emotional cost is not doctrinally sound. Of course, the only thing that would nix that would be personal revelation. If the Lord says give all your money, then do it. But I suspect that’s an individual sacrifice, not one that’s a commandment to all people.

Many children of divorced parents grow up with a belief that the other spouse, usually the man, did not do enough; financially or emotionally. The fact is, if the two parents actually got along to begin with, they probably wouldn’t have gotten divorced in the first place. So it’s natural that the father isn’t hanging around every weekend and every evening at the moms home since they probably can’t stand each other anyways. They should count their blessings that they didn’t see the actual negative relationship.

I suppose it is all based on needs vs wants. I look around the world and realize that we often have an over inflated view of needs. Braces? Cars? Insurance? Trips to Hawaii? Are those needs or wants? Its not easy to define those in a world of that varies that definition from country to country.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Messenger

[rpn]

One piece of advice that won't come up until your child is older iis to make sure to address the primary lessons and your FHE lessons from which a child might infer that because their other parent doesn't understand or live the way we believe is right, that doesn't make them bad. (Just like mommy's choices does not in any way mean that the child was bad or unworthy.) If you let your child see joy and service and the fruits of your testimony and you help her understand her obligation to choose and nurture a testimony of her own, then she will not be so easily swayed and she also won't be inappropriately judgmental of her mother, whom she has ever right to love as she sees fit. That means on mothers days and bdays and holidays and other special days for mom, you need to help her do something for her mom -- make it a part of her habits to be thoughtful of her mother.

[ERayR]

ERayR,

Nothing wrong with providing for the kids at all – both spouses should. Also take interest and love in your kids - No doubt. Don’t abandon your kids - all good. But what you said above is a lot different than your original post. Perhaps it’s a point worth clarifying. It’s common among people to say that the kids must be given everything they want no matter what the cost - emotionally and financially: Which is what was in your original post. Like I said, it’s common for people to say that without really thinking about what they are saying. Far too many people say it, and accidently judge parents if they don't. There is no scripture, no law, or doctrinal point that says that.

Thanks for pointing out those scriptures. Supporting your kids is one thing, but over-supporting them no matter what the cost to the parent no matter the financial or emotional cost is not doctrinally sound. Of course, the only thing that would nix that would be personal revelation. If the Lord says give all your money, then do it. But I suspect that’s an individual sacrifice, not one that’s a commandment to all people.

Many children of divorced parents grow up with a belief that the other spouse, usually the man, did not do enough; financially or emotionally. The fact is, if the two parents actually got along to begin with, they probably wouldn’t have gotten divorced in the first place. So it’s natural that the father isn’t hanging around every weekend and every evening at the moms home since they probably can’t stand each other anyways. They should count their blessings that they didn’t see the actual negative relationship.

I suppose it is all based on needs vs wants. I look around the world and realize that we often have an over inflated view of needs. Braces? Cars? Insurance? Trips to Hawaii? Are those needs or wants? Its not easy to define those in a world of that varies that definition from country to country.

I am coming from the kids needs. The kids need a set of parents not selfish brats. I have four grandchildren living with me because my daughter being selfish married someone more selfish than she is and because they could only stand each other long enough to make some babies the children now have a father that calls every few months and leaves his kids to starve or for someone else to take care of while he makes another family somewhere else.

D&C 75:28 doesn't say it is for both parents to provide for the family it says every "man" is obliged to care for his family.

[Messenger]

I am coming from the kids needs. The kids need a set of parents not selfish brats. I have four grandchildren living with me because my daughter being selfish married someone more selfish than she is and because they could only stand each other long enough to make some babies the children now have a father that calls every few months and leaves his kids to starve or for someone else to take care of while he makes another family somewhere else.

D&C 75:28 doesn't say it is for both parents to provide for the family it says every "man" is obliged to care for his family.

Of course it does. And both parents should. Did I say otherwise? But supporting them no matter what the cost to the parent, no matter the financial or emotional cost is not doctrinally sound. If you can point that out in your scripture search, then you would have some support in your first post. Every subsequent post you have written is correct, just not the first one.

There are lots of reasons for divorce, not just the one you mention about being selfish brats and only being married long enough to make some babies. Some of us actually got married because we prayed about it and got an answer and married in the temple.

After divorce, nobody wants the kids to starve - nor have I said that. So if you have a concern about that, I would prefer you not quote me when saying it. Thanks!

We are dealing with a subject as old as the hills. And lots of people have ideas on what a person should and shouldn’t do – all done from a computer keyboard far away from the facts. For example, I wasn't able to see my kids every weekend, because I was living 1500 miles away in another state working hard to provide for them. Lots of people (not you) didn’t like that. But, it was a blessing to have been able to do that, and an answer to my prayers. People that judge divorced people, without being a divorced parent, are a dime a dozen, and sometimes not even a dime! This is very typical and normal for the world; nearly everyone says it should be a certain way, even when circumstances of divorced parents differ greatly. My I suggest that you consider more of these circumstances before you throw your wide net of judgment across such a large sea.

I'll say it again - No parent should render support on the premise that it will cost everything, financial and/or emotionally. It’s not doctrinally sound. If you didn’t catch it in my previous posts, let me say it again. Parents, support their kids after divorce. Did you see what I just said? That doesn’t mean we do it at all personal cost. Remember that there is balance and also there are many levels of support, and to be frank - you shouldn’t be judging someone else’s level as being right or wrong; the reason why is that you have no idea what each persons situation is.

Don’t you find that some people’s judgment is too easy or simple? I mean for some other people, it’s simple just to say that the man needs to give everything a man has until he is devastated, bankrupt, and spiritually barren. Perhaps that would make the other spouse feel better? But that doesn’t sound much Heavenly Doctrine to me. That sounds more like the other guys doctrine. It sounds like revenge. How typical do you find that? You just have to laugh at human nature sometimes.

At a time when both parents themselves need support, to support their kids, its amazing how the world does not support them. Ironic.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Messenger

[Calm]

No parent should render support on the premise that it will cost everything, financial and/or emotionally.

Parents should support their children after a divorce in the same way they would try to support them prior to the divorce, with wisdom, prudence, love and with the best interest of the child in mind...which may including saying "no" quite often but also not being upset if the spouse can afford to give something the child will benefit from if one can't (it's not supposed to be a competition for love).

I think this is what both of you are saying in your own ways.

[Messenger]

Parents should support their children after a divorce in the same way they would try to support them prior to the divorce, with wisdom, prudence, love and with the best interest of the child in mind...which may including saying "no" quite often but also not being upset if the spouse can afford to give something the child will benefit from if one can't (it's not supposed to be a competition for love).

I think this is what both of you are saying in your own ways.

Like nearly all divorce situations, ERayR's is unique. In that situation ERayR is taking care of the kids because the father and the mother don’t (at least that’s from what I could read into it). There are times when the wife does not want the kids and the dad gets them, and there are times when mom wants them, and the father does not. In ERayR's case, it would appear that none of them want them. In my case, it was only natural for my ex to get them since my work was taking me out of state. After words, I was gone out of state every week to provide for them, my son's graduation photo is of him in Hawaii - LOL. My ex shares that with me now because she knows the child support (state mandated funding) is done with him - as he is an adult now (according to state law). But as your post indicates, it doesn't stop me from being dad, and all the normal things that go along with it. My only regret is that my ex made it difficult to even talk to them.

One thing that you mention is that it’s not supposed to be a competition for love. Unfortunately, if one parent does, then most of the time it’s the only way to play. In other words, the custodial parent often finds a way to "charge" for the non-custodial parent visits. This means she makes the father go to trips to court for silly things, she doesn’t show up with the kids for child visits, then when the father calls the children on their birthday, she promptly hangs up the phone. Who wins? The lawyers. Fortunately for me, my work took me all over the country so I only had to deal with all of that for about 8 months. It allowed me to focus on providing for them financially - two kids - well over $800 a month. Think about that for a second!

The amazing thing is that my son gets it ... even though most of my own family and most of my friends do not. Why? Because he was in the family when the divorce happened, and saw how it transpired. Smart man - even with his own ADHD!

After a while all the criticism gets old. You realize that your own salvation is between Heavenly Father and yourself, not your friends and family. If they don’t get it, its really not my problem for their lack of understanding. Most of the time they don’t want to understand anyways. Most of them are more comfortable telling how everyone else should live their lives rather than fix their own problems.

Looking back, now 12 years later, I am so glad I made the good choices I did. And some of the choices weren't so good though. But when it comes to my kids, it worked out well in the end. One thing for family and friends to remember, if you constantly tell the dad that he is no good, a dead beat, an idiot, and just plain wrong, that’s not support either. Heavenly Father is much better at giving support - and he isn’t even here in the flesh. What does that say about some family and friends? Perhaps they really aren’t.

[katherine the great]

My only advice is first pray every day and I mean fervent prayer. Then always look for the best interest of the child(ren) no matter what it costs you, financially and emotionally.

Excellent post ERay! I agree.