TBM v Jospeh Smith

[Jeff K.]

TBM is often used in a condescending manner as if one never questions, never thinks about the doctrine, simply follows it. Those using it can never concede that deep thought and prayer were an integral part of the process by which we hold our convictions. So they use the word mockingly. It is meant to offend.

[rodheadlee]

TBM to critics means True Blind Mormon.

[BCSpace]

I take upon myself the epithet of the enemy with pride yes.

Sure. But I see it as "True Believing Mormon" and I apply it to those who accept all the core doctrines of the Church and also act in the public arena as if they did. In other words, they can truthfully answer the TR questions and receive one.

I agree, such is folly. But it is not folly to believe, live, and teach what the Church does. So an opponent of Prop 8, for example, cannot possibly be a TBM.

I think that you are quite wrong about that. My closest friend is an opponent of Prop. 8 for the same reasons that he is opposed to the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Reynolds v. U.S., yet he is certainly a man who could fill a place in the Quorum of the Twelve today, if necessary. I personally know very few men of such caliber.

I highly doubt one who does not accept core doctrines of the Church would be called to the Qo12 without being asked to change his tune. But as you can see from this thread there are various definitions applied to "TBM" such that I don't think it's possible to accurately identify one's self or someone else as a "TBM" without first determining what is meant.

[Robert F. Smith]

I highly doubt one who does not accept core doctrines of the Church would be called to the Qo12 without being asked to change his tune. But as you can see from this thread there are various definitions applied to "TBM" such that I don't think it's possible to accurately identify one's self or someone else as a "TBM" without first determining what is meant.

"Core doctrines"? What might they be, pray tell? Do you fully comprehend the meaning of Reynolds v USA, and the far-reaching implications of AF #11, "allow men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may"? As a people, we have been victimized and prevented from the free practice of our religion, and Reynolds v USA was a powerful tool of our enemies in preventing our "free exercise of religion" (as supposedly guaranteed under the 1st Amendment to the Constitution, and the equal protection of the laws under Amend #14). We may disagree vehemently with the lifestyle choices of some people, but we are free to preach repentance to them. Should we go further than that? Under what circumstances?

[Jeff K.]

The quorum of the twelve and the first presidency both act as one. If someone is not in harmony with them, and consequently the Lord, then I do not see the Lord calling them to that position.

[mfbukowski]

I take upon myself the epithet of the enemy with pride yes.

Totally agree.

Sure. But I see it as "True Believing Mormon" and I apply it to those who accept all the core doctrines of the Church and also act in the public arena as if they did. In other words, they can truthfully answer the TR questions and receive one.

Totally agree.

So an opponent of Prop 8, for example, cannot possibly be a TBM.

Totally disagree.

I was for prop 8, but many many who were not are without a doubt TBMs imho. Hold recommends, attend every Sunday, magnify callings, actually do home/visiting teaching

You know, TBM's.

[mfbukowski]

I think TBM is a phrase people use to describe a non-thinking, naive member. It does not have a literal meaning otherwise I would consider myself a TBM, which I don't. I consider my parents TBM, they are great, wonderful people who follow the prophets greatly. They never "think" about their position on things and that's ok. There are other members who shut off their brains when presented with a logical argument about how something could potentially be incorrect in their overly fundamental premises. For example, a sister in my ward refused to question our bishop on an idea for something to do in a RS meeting because that would be not supporting your leaders. I'm sure he would have welcomed her question/comment. She is a TBM in all the negative aspects of the term, my parents are TBM in the positive sense of the term. I, as a strongly believing Mormon who deeply thinks of everything I do and follow the prophets, I am not a TBM. Just my $0.02

Oh yeah?

I am a TBM- wanna fight?

[BCSpace]

So an opponent of Prop 8, for example, cannot possibly be a TBM.

Totally disagree.

I was for prop 8, but many many who were not are without a doubt TBMs imho. Hold recommends, attend every Sunday, magnify callings, actually do home/visiting teaching

You know, TBM's.

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

[WalkerW]

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

You, sir, are bold. Don't know if you are completely right, but bold nonetheless.

[ELF1024]

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

I would argue that supporting or not supporting proposition 8 has nothing to do with being a TBM. The same could be said of any member supporting or disagreeing with Roe vs. Wade.

Many of us believe that the gift of "Free Agency" is more important than trying to legislate moral behavior. Those who wish to sin will find a way to do so. Those who wish to be moral will find a way to be so.

I would not have voted in favor of homosexual marriages, but that doesn't mean that I am a TBM, it means I was willing to make a stand on a moral issue I didn't feel the government should have had a say in.

[mfbukowski]

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

I still disagree, Bro!

To me it becomes a definitional issue, as, in my opinion, everything is. If you want to define TBM's that way, be my guest!

[Hayds]

TBM is simply an acronym used by pro and anti Mormons alike. It can have pro,neutral, and negative meaning depending on who is using it and in what context. Its an identifyer like NOM, EXMO, NOMO, and JackMO. Those that are offended by it and act like it is the "N" word are usually those types who have a persecution complex or look to be offended by just about anything. Sadly in today's society just about everything offends someone. The same people that are usually offended by the term TBM are usually the same people that throw around the word "bigot" when someone disagrees with them rather than reserving it's use for the proper situation when bigotry is actually involved.

I think the actual offensive, condescending, and derogatory terms Anti Mormons use are: Morgbot, Mobot, Sheeple, LD$ inc (when refering to the LDS church) Profit (when refering to LDS prophets). Those terms are mean and meant to offend. TBM, not so much. I have been called much worse.

[Maidservant]

TBM is cultural, either way. Not doctrinal, or scriptural. It has no resonance with me, I would feel highly uncomfortable referring to myself that way since (to me) it requires excluding people in ways that are not authorized. There is a marker line, it is called baptism. I don't need any other.

Everyone in life is on a journey and none of us have a halo yet. I attend church, hold a temple recommend, fulfill callings, etc etc etc and I am very happy, literally, to do this. As I've said in another thread I love being Mormon with all that that means, even any warts I may perceive. My brother only sometimes goes to church, struggles with addiction (hm, so do I), finally has received the Melchizedek priesthood, is struggling toward getting a temple recommend, etc etc etc. Yet he and I will sit and speak at length about scriptures and God and I know God is with him too, teaching him, and I know that we both believe. It's not about being Mormon, in this sense . . . it's about having a covenant (baptism) and keeping it the best you can and becoming a new creature, line upon line.

TBM is meaningless or detrimental in my opinion as a self-identification. And I don't permit others to identify me, or at least absorb their identification.

[Rivers]

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

Can someone who is conflicted about prop 8 be a TBM?

[Jeff K.]

Since TBM has not been clearly defined, you can use it to describe anything you want, in either a deragatory manner or a complimentary manner.

[thesometimesaint]

I agree with and support the Church, by the same token:

http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/think.htm

[Robert F. Smith]

Such does not a TBM make. It's well illustrated by another thread going on right now about those who don't believe yet remain members, active or inactive. The LDS position on homosexuality is surely a core doctrine because the Church has stuck it's neck out for Prop 8. Therefore, opponents of Prop 8 do not accept a core doctrine of the Church and thus cannot be TBM.

So Proposition 8 is a "core doctrine of the Church," or is it supported because it furthers a core doctrine? Reynolds v USA was supported by the Protestant churches for the same reason. Do you understand the problem? You can't have it both ways. One does not have to support homosexuality in order to accept the idea that consenting adults might not all do what you want them to do. Mormons were once severely persecuted simply because they believed that they should be able to practice polygyny. Protestants considered that belief as barbaric and were successful in stopping it. Do we really believe that others may worship how and what they wish?

Of course the debate is merely pro forma here since changing attitudes practically guarantee that homosexual marriage will be legal in most states within the coming generation. Will this prevent our practice of Mormonism? Probably not. On the other hand, we might not want to take up the practice of polygyny again, even though the Muslims among us might want to. Changing legal norms will likely make polygyny legal.

However, will polygynous converts to Mormonism in some foreign countries (where polygyny is currently legal) be required to divest themselves of their extra wives and children before baptism?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Hello dirtius max...

I refer to myself as a TBM (yes, it stands for True Blue Mormon) but I, like many others who consider themselves such, am not a blind follower. I like to think of myself as a "thinker" who is pretty well-read, has heard most anti- arguments, and who also enjoys participating here... and, I have a deep testimony of the restored gospel (the Big Picture).

Some people equate TBM to be overzealous Saints who are more identified as blind followers or Molly Mormon/Peter Priesthood types, hence the derogatory connotation. I, and many others, do not fit that mold, but we are very strong in our testimonies... certainly not lukewarm.

from the beach on finally what appears to be a sunny day... GG

Good words...

[Calm]

However, will polygynous converts to Mormonism in some foreign countries (where polygyny is currently legal) be required to divest themselves of their extra wives and children before baptism?

Current instructions is that they are to stay with their wives and children rather than being baptized IIRC.