"Nemo the Mormon" Speaking Out (Again)

[smac97]

I've never been comfortable with Latter-day Saints acting in that capacity going out and seek all sorts of public attention for themselves.  To be sure, I am fine with Latter-day Saints gaining prominence through public speaking in relation to the Church.  Daniel Peterson has done that for years.  These days, Jacob Hansen and Jasmin Rappleye seem to be putting out a lot of good content in terms of defense of, and useful new information about, the Church.  In doing so, they are gaining some notoriety in their own right, but they seem to focus rather heavily on advocating for the Church more than themselves.  That's my perception, anyway.

There are also some who, though nominally members of the Church, use their membership as a platform to publicly speak against the Church.  "Nemo the Mormon" is one such fellow, though he has recently lost him membership in the Church.  That hasn't stopped him from continuing as he has been in the past.  This morning, I saw this:

Mormon YouTuber put on trial and excommunicated explains why he still follows rules on coffee and alcohol

Quote

A Mormon YouTuber says he was 'put on trial' after speaking out about allegations of child safeguarding issues and secret stockpiles of money.

He says this while knowing that his characterization will almost certainly not be disputed by the Church because membership council proceedings are kept in confidence.

Quote

Despite being excommunicated in 2024, he still follows the church’s rules prohibiting coffee and alcohol.

Glad to hear it.  I hope he comes back to us.

Quote

Douglas Stilgoe - known as Nemo the Mormon online - was summoned before church leaders one month after speaking about his faith on LADbible’s Honesty Box.

He was accused of apostasy (abandoning his religion) and kicked out of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This means he's now banned from giving a eulogy at his parents’ funeral and speaking at family weddings.

Not sure what to make of this.  Have his parents died?  If so, if they wanted to have a funeral administered by the Church, then the meeting is a church meeting, on church property.  I have seen plenty of funerals where non-Latter-day Saint family members and friends eulogize the decedent.  Not participating in the Church's meetings, then, is fairly unique to people who have their membership in the Church removed for cause - particularly for apostasy.  

If his parents have not died, then why is he bringing this up now?

And what's with this "speaking at family weddings" stuff?  Does anyone have any insights?

Quote

According to some interpretations of scripture, his excommunication condemns him to the Mormon version of hell, called outer darkness.

Utter bilge.  If Nemo is selling or endorsing this sort of nonsense, shame on him.

Quote

LADbible’s new documentary Nemo vs the Mormon Church: The Cost of Speaking Out follows Stilgoe as he fights to defend himself against what he calls the LDS church’s ‘Stasi-esque level of control’.

"Stasi."  The secret police and intelligence agency of communist East Germany (GDR) from 1950 until 1990.

This is overwrought nonsense.

Quote

Yet, despite his brutally honest critiques of church leaders, he continues to follow Mormon rules prohibiting tea, coffee and alcohol.

Good for him.  Hopefully he circles back to more fundamental reasons to join the Church through baptism and pursue the covenant path.

Quote

Speaking to LADbible, he said: “I'm still really Mormon in just so many ways. You could describe me as Mormon still, even though they've taken my membership away, in just so many parts of my life. I am still the same as I always was.”

I've never seen a faithful Latter-day Saint publicly accuse the Church of exercising "‘Stasi-esque level of control."  This is just unserious nonsense.

Quote

In the doc, Stilgoe explains he was ‘very proud, very in your face’ about his faith as a child, but as he grew older, he became aware of what he alleges are troubling hypocrisies from church leaders.

It started with claims from a whistleblower in 2019 that the LDS church had secretly stockpiled $100 billion of its members’ money.

Mormons are expected to give 10 percent of their income to the church. According to the church’s website, the money is meant to be spent on church operations, alongside educational and missionary work and ‘welfare and humanitarian efforts’.

Stilgoe said: “I grew up in a household with a single mother who paid tithing very fastidiously. And so I saw the sacrifices she'd made to pay tithing. I looked at the sacrifice I'd made in my own life to pay tithing.

“And then to see that the church had been amassing that money instead of using it for charitable purposes or anything like that really bothered me," he claimed. “I feel like it was my first understanding that the church could be dishonest and could not be fully transparent with its members.

Funny how different perspectives can look at the same set of facts and come away with such divergent conclusions and assessments.

Quote

“They distrust us so much to think that if we found out how wealthy they were, we would just stop obeying a commandment. That's kind of how I saw it at the time.”

"They distrust us so much to think that if we found out how wealthy they were..."

"They" and "us."  He is referencing the leaders of the Church hear, and publicly characterizing them as enriching themselves via tithing funds.

Patent falsehoods like this are troubling to me.

Quote

It ultimately prompted Stilgoe to start his Nemo the Mormon YouTube channel in 2020, which now has almost 47,000 subscribers.

He says he learned more and more: from the age of founder Joseph Smith’s wives (the youngest was 14), to chilling claims about ‘worthiness interviews’ in which some bishops would allegedly ask children as young as 12 about masturbation and pornography.

While Stilgoe felt he had to speak out about these issues on his channel, he was also keen not to be forced out of the community he’d grown up in, describing excommunication as a ‘looming threat’.

“I'd done my best to make sure that everything I said was factual and defensible and so if they did try and excommunicate me, I would always be able to say ‘Well, all I've done is tell the truth'."

Some truth, yes.  But also a lot of unsubstantiated stuff.  And quite a bit of critical gloss and slant.  He looks for the worst possible light as to any particular issue, then casts the Church in that light.  This is, for him, "the truth."

Such are the pernicious fruits of faultfinding.  Faultfinding plus self-aggrandizement is a toxic mix.

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Part of the reason for the tightrope walk of challenging the church, yet not going so far as to be excommunicated, was because, while he found his trust in church leaders challenged, he did not have doubts about his own personal Mormon faith.

“Many people describe what I went through as a faith crisis, and I don't know whether I would actually describe it that way.

“I would talk about it as a trust crisis. I lost my trust in the institution. I realised I couldn't trust this institution that I trusted implicitly because they couldn't keep the standards of honesty they had required of me as a member of the institution.

“So I lost my ability to trust them, and yeah, that's separate to personal faith.”

That's an understandable position.  Many of us encounter challenges about the inner workings of the Church.  Hashing out criticisms publicly, though, is not the way to go IMO.

Quote

Since his excommunication, he’s ‘spent a lot of time outdoors, up mountains, just gaining a new perspective on things’.

I am glad of that.  I have had a number of friends and family members who, having left the Church, have gained an increased or renewed appreciation for the beaty of nature.  Hopefully loving and valuing nature may eventually play a part in returning to loving and valuing nature's God (1 Nephi 19:12).

Quote

He also suffered from a stroke in 2025, which meant he temporarily lost the ability to walk.

I am sorry to hear about this.  I hope he recovers.

Quote

“I think between the excommunication and the stroke, my life has changed a lot and in many ways for the better.

"I think the values the church instilled in me are still there, particularly values around honesty and looking for the truth.

“It's just a shame [church leaders] weren't willing to live up to those values, I suppose.”

I think the leaders of the Church, though certainly not perfect, are overwhelmingly good and honest men and women.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited 23 hours ago by smac97

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I've never been comfortable with Latter-day Saints acting in that capacity going out and seek all sorts of public attention for themselves.  To be sure, I am fine with Latter-day Saints gaining prominence through public speaking in relation to the Church.  Daniel Peterson has done that for years.  These days, Jacob Hansen and Jasmin Rappleye seem to be putting out a lot of good content in terms of defense of, and useful new information about, the Church.  In doing so, they are gaining some notoriety in their own right, but they seem to focus rather heavily on advocating for the Church more than themselves.  That's my perception, anyway.

There are also some who, though nominally members of the Church, use their membership as a platform to publicly speak against the Church.  "Nemo the Mormon" is one such fellow, though he has recently lost him membership in the Church.  That hasn't stopped him from continuing as he has been in the past.  This morning, I saw this:

Mormon YouTuber put on trial and excommunicated explains why he still follows rules on coffee and alcohol

He says this while knowing that his characterization will almost certainly not be disputed by the Church because membership council proceedings are kept in confidence.

Glad to hear it.  I hope he comes back to us.

Not sure what to make of this.  Have his parents died?  If so, if they wanted to have a funeral administered by the Church, then the meeting is a church meeting, on church property.  I have seen plenty of funerals where non-Latter-day Saint family members and friends eulogize the decedent.  Not participating in the Church's meetings, then, is fairly unique to people who have their membership in the Church removed for cause - particularly for apostasy.  

If his parents have not died, then why is he bringing this up now?

And what's with this "speaking at family weddings" stuff?  Does anyone have any insights?

Utter bilge.  If Nemo is selling or endorsing this sort of nonsense, shame on him.

"Stasi."  The secret police and intelligence agency of communist East Germany (GDR) from 1950 until 1990.

This is overwrought nonsense.

Good for him.  Hopefully he circles back to more fundamental reasons to join the Church through baptism and pursue the covenant path.

I've never seen a faithful Latter-day Saint publicly accuse the Church of exercising "‘Stasi-esque level of control."  This is just unserious nonsense.

Funny how different perspectives can look at the same set of facts and come away with such divergent conclusions and assessments.

"They distrust us so much to think that if we found out how wealthy they were..."

"They" and "us."  He is referencing the leaders of the Church hear, and publicly characterizing them as enriching themselves via tithing funds.

Patent falsehoods like this are troubling to me.

Some truth, yes.  But also a lot of unsubstantiated stuff.  And quite a bit of critical gloss and slant.  He looks for the worst possible light as to any particular issue, then casts the Church in that light.  This is, for him, "the truth."

Such are the pernicious fruits of faultfinding.  Faultfinding plus self-aggrandizement is a toxic mix.

That's an understandable position.  Many of us encounter challenges about the inner workings of the Church.  Hashing out criticisms publicly, though, is not the way to go IMO.

I am glad of that.  I have had a number of friends and family members who, having left the Church, have gained an increased or renewed appreciation for the beaty of nature.  Hopefully loving and valuing nature may eventually play a part in returning to loving and valuing nature's God (1 Nephi 19:12).

I am sorry to hear about this.  I hope he recovers.

I think the leaders of the Church, though certainly not perfect, are overwhelmingly good and honest men and women.

Thanks,

-Smac

I believe it’s likely that when he referrers to being barred from speaking at family weddings and funerals he’s not pointing to any official church policy. Rather, it’s probable that his own family members have made it clear to him that they don’t want to an excommunicated “lose cannon,” such as himself, to insert apostate ideas into what are supposed to be solemn, faith affirming family gatherings.

[smac97]

12 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

I believe it’s likely that when he referrers to being barred from speaking at family weddings and funerals he’s not pointing to any official church policy.  Rather, it’s probable that his own family members have made it clear to him that they don’t want to an excommunicated “lose cannon,” such as himself, to insert apostate ideas into what are supposed to be solemn, faith affirming family gatherings.

Section 29 of the Church's handbook is indeed silent as to who may participate in a funeral conducted as a Church meeting (see here).

However, there is Section 32.11.4 ("Withdrawal of Membership") :

Quote

Those whose Church membership has been withdrawn may not enjoy any privileges of membership.

• They may not enter a temple or wear the temple garment. If the person has a temple recommend, the leader cancels it in LCR.
• They may not exercise the priesthood.
• They may not partake of the sacrament or participate in the sustaining of Church officers.
• They may not give a talk, lesson, or prayer in Church settings or lead an activity in church. Nor may they serve in a Church calling.
• They may not pay tithes and offerings.

They are encouraged to attend Church meetings and activities if their conduct is orderly.

I think that's the operative bit.

Still don't know what he means by weddings.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

Has anyone seen a Saint with a photo, real or AI generated, of them in a white suit in front of a temple holding a Book of Mormon to their chest?

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Calm

[Amulek]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

Not sure what to make of this.  Have his parents died?  If so, if they wanted to have a funeral administered by the Church, then the meeting is a church meeting, on church property.  I have seen plenty of funerals where non-Latter-day Saint family members and friends eulogize the decedent.  Not participating in the Church's meetings, then, is fairly unique to people who have their membership in the Church removed for cause - particularly for apostasy.  

If his parents have not died, then why is he bringing this up now?

And what's with this "speaking at family weddings" stuff?  Does anyone have any insights?

In the article that appears directly below the one you link to, it has the following:

Quote

Speaking to LADbible, Stilgoe explained that because of his excommunication, he’s been shut out of pivotal moments in family life.

He said: “I can attend church. I can't contribute. I can't speak up.

“Were my parents to have a funeral in an LDS meeting house, I wouldn't be able to give a eulogy.”

Heartbreakingly, he also won’t be able to take part in key milestones in his nieces’ and nephews’ lives as they grow up.

“Say one of my nieces or nephews goes on a mission trip for the church, I couldn't necessarily speak at their farewell meeting.

“I probably couldn't speak at a wedding either in an LDS chapel.”

So, I think this is just sort of him explaining the impact of having had his membership withdrawn - not that there is a current, live situation where he is not able to participate in something - though he does mention that some family members have been avoiding him.

“Certain family members won't talk to me anymore because of what I do, equating it to having a paedophile in the family, ‘we don't want our children around you’. [...] Other members of my family have been very supportive of what I do, others merely tolerant.”

I'm not sure what to make about the whole pedophile comment. There are, admittedly, lots of people I don't want my children around, but if someone in his family really made that kind of comment (which I grant as being plausible), that strikes me as being a really mean and spiteful thing to say - even if you strongly disagree with what he's been doing. 

Oh, and as far as I can tell, all of the comments about him ending up in outer darkness appear to come from the author of the articles (Simon Fearn), not from Nemo himself - though I'm not sure how far he went out of his way to disabuse the author of the notion. 

Here's the author's take on LDS theology: 

Quote

While their website describes the church as Christian, many of their beliefs differ from the teachings of mainstream Christian churches.

Mormons believe in a concept called sealing. It means spouses aren’t just married on Earth, but stay married in heaven.

Because the church has branded Stilgoe an apostate, in Mormon theology he will not be able to join his wife in heaven, heading instead to the Mormon version of hell, called outer darkness.

In his excommunication hearing, his wife stood up to ask church leaders if they knew the gravity of what they were about to do.

Stilgoe said she asked them: “Do you understand what you're doing right now? Do you understand the pronouncement you're making on my husband?

“They claimed to understand, so that's on their conscience then, I suppose. That's for them to come to terms with.”

Excommunication is a serious matter, but it's not a pronouncement that you are destined for outer darkness. 

If Nemo is as informed about LDS goings on as he claims to be, he certainly ought to know that.

And maybe he does, and the author is just writing something provocative to generate clicks for their YouTube documentary. 

Not sure. Don't care.

 

[Notatbm]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Has anyone seen a Saint with a photo, real or AI generated, of them in a white suit in front of a temple holding a Book of Mormon to their chest?

 

Apparently it’s a thing to do baptism pics in front of the temple. Kids in white clothing clutching a bom. this is just one of a dozen or so I found with one google search:

 

https://gilmorestudios.com/gilbert-arizona-temple-lds-baptism-photographer/

Edited 18 hours ago by Notatbm

[Notatbm]

I don’t  think Nemo would have a problem speaking at his parent’s funeral (s) when the time comes.

Precedence has already been set in Utah where a gang member of the Tongan crip gang spoke at a funeral of another Tongan crip gang member at an lds church. The speaker was wearing gang -specific identifying colors, a balaclava and was drinking a beer while he gave the talk. Nemo has nothing to worry about. 

[webbles]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Has anyone seen a Saint with a photo, real or AI generated, of them in a white suit in front of a temple holding a Book of Mormon to their chest?

 

I have.

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, webbles said:

I have.

Okay, that’s painful. (I don’t ‘do’ portraits much or temple pictures to begin with)

My apologies to anyone who loves these.  This is purely my own personal preference which is not a judgment on others’ preferences.

[Pyreaux]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

Okay, that’s painful. (I don’t ‘do’ portraits much or temple pictures to begin with)

My apologies to anyone who loves these.  This is purely my own personal preference which is not a judgment on others’ preferences.

I never have but I rarely see many temple selfies and photos, maybe a few couples and very few family photos. I'd imagine there might be more trends out west... Like planking.

[Stargazer]

14 hours ago, Amulek said:

Mormons believe in a concept called sealing. It means spouses aren’t just married on Earth, but stay married in heaven.

Because the church has branded Stilgoe an apostate, in Mormon theology he will not be able to join his wife in heaven, heading instead to the Mormon version of hell, called outer darkness.

In his excommunication hearing, his wife stood up to ask church leaders if they knew the gravity of what they were about to do.

Odd, isn't it? On the one hand, the church isn't true, and maybe God isn't even real, but on the other hand it's terrible that now somehow they won't be with their spouse, qua spouse, in the afterlife? Which is either nonexistent (according to an atheist), or there is no marriage there anyway (according to mainstream Christianity)? 

"How dare they kick me out of a church I don't even believe in! How dare they declare I won't be with my wife in an afterlife I have stopped believing in!" 

[MustardSeed]

16 hours ago, Notatbm said:

Apparently it’s a thing to do baptism pics in front of the temple. Kids in white clothing clutching a bom. this is just one of a dozen or so I found with one google search:

 

https://gilmorestudios.com/gilbert-arizona-temple-lds-baptism-photographer/

Apparently photo ops in general are a very big deal in Utah according to my photographer friend.  She says Utah is rampant with influencers and photographers- maybe it’s similar to the reasons there are so many MLMs in Utah - lots of stay at home parents who have time to be online and work from home so these types of things become trends quickly. 

[Amulek]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Odd, isn't it? On the one hand, the church isn't true, and maybe God isn't even real, but on the other hand it's terrible that now somehow they won't be with their spouse, qua spouse, in the afterlife? Which is either nonexistent (according to an atheist), or there is no marriage there anyway (according to mainstream Christianity)? 

"How dare they kick me out of a church I don't even believe in! How dare they declare I won't be with my wife in an afterlife I have stopped believing in!" 

I don't see it quite as binary. I'm not sure where Nemo ultimately lands on every theological question, but he has explicitly described what happened as a “trust crisis” rather than a “faith crisis,” and has said he still considers himself Mormon in many ways.

Maybe he's going through something of an Oliver Cowdery phase and will eventually return to the fold. At least, that is my hope. In the meantime, however, I don't think it would be contradictory for someone in that situation to grieve the possible loss of an eternal marriage while simultaneously having serious doubts about, or losing trust in, the institution administering that doctrine. 

 

[smac97]

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

In the article that appears directly below the one you link to, it has the following:

So, I think this is just sort of him explaining the impact of having had his membership withdrawn - not that there is a current, live situation where he is not able to participate in something - though he does mention that some family members have been avoiding him.

That is unfortunate.  My extended family has had a lot of folks leave the Church, but we are generally doing well at maintaining relationships built on enduring love and connection.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

“Certain family members won't talk to me anymore because of what I do, equating it to having a paedophile in the family, ‘we don't want our children around you’. [...] Other members of my family have been very supportive of what I do, others merely tolerant.”

I think it's understandable that Latter-day Saints would not like a family member - while a member of the Church - actively and regularly speaking against the Church as Nemo has been doing for years.

That said, the "equating it to having a paedophile in the family" thing is unfortunate, but I wonder how much of that is him rather than what has actually been said.  "{W}e don't want our children around you" is a very far cry from "Having you in the family is equivalent to having a paedophile in the family."  I have a friend who strongly surmises (but has not yet definitively confirmed) that his then-young adult son, while living at home with his siblings, went out of his way, secretly, to persuade his siblings (most of which were minors) to leave the Church.  My friend has struggled with this, as he feels his son misused his family relationships to interfere with his (my friend's) efforts to raise his other children.  In circumstances such as those, I could understand why Latter-day Saint parents would be reluctant to have an anti-Mormon relative who has spent years building an anti-Mormon social media platform interact with their minor children.  Perhaps their lack of trust in his ability to "stay in his lane" and let them raise their children as they see fit is not entirely without foundation.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

I'm not sure what to make about the whole pedophile comment. There are, admittedly, lots of people I don't want my children around, but if someone in his family really made that kind of comment (which I grant as being plausible), that strikes me as being a really mean and spiteful thing to say - even if you strongly disagree with what he's been doing. 

I'd like to better understand whether a family member actually did compare him to a pedophile, or if that is what he took away from "we don't want our children around you."

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

Oh, and as far as I can tell, all of the comments about him ending up in outer darkness appear to come from the author of the articles (Simon Fearn), not from Nemo himself - though I'm not sure how far he went out of his way to disabuse the author of the notion. 

Perhaps.  I think it can be read either way.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

Here's the author's take on LDS theology: 

Quote

While their website describes the church as Christian, many of their beliefs differ from the teachings of mainstream Christian churches.

Mormons believe in a concept called sealing. It means spouses aren’t just married on Earth, but stay married in heaven.

Because the church has branded Stilgoe an apostate, in Mormon theology he will not be able to join his wife in heaven, heading instead to the Mormon version of hell, called outer darkness.

Yeah, that's nowhere close to accurate.  And Nemo - who pretty clearly participated and cooperated with the article - has apparently not done anything to correct this substantial falsehood.  A falsehood that also casts the Church in a terrible light.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

Quote

In his excommunication hearing, his wife stood up to ask church leaders if they knew the gravity of what they were about to do.

Stilgoe said she asked them: “Do you understand what you're doing right now? Do you understand the pronouncement you're making on my husband?

“They claimed to understand, so that's on their conscience then, I suppose. That's for them to come to terms with.”

The "pronouncement" is that he was losing his membership in the Church, but also that he can return to the Church after a year if he desires to do so, and if he sets aside the behaviors that caused membership removal in the first places.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

Excommunication is a serious matter, but it's not a pronouncement that you are destined for outer darkness. 

I suspect Nemo, being the subject of the story, has read it.  No indication so far that he has done anything to correct or dispute or disagree with the falsehoods in the article.  “Qui tacet consentire videtur” and all that.

18 hours ago, Amulek said:

If Nemo is as informed about LDS goings on as he claims to be, he certainly ought to know that.

And maybe he does, and the author is just writing something provocative to generate clicks for their YouTube documentary. 

Not sure. Don't care.

Also not sure.  I care a little.  For Nemo's sake if nothing else.  He is only estranging himself further from us by doing these things.

Thanks,

-Smac