Utah History

[Tony uk]

I have had an interest in history since a young. Recently decided to learn about the history of the USA. Although I am familiar with the general history of America, I thought it maybe of interest to dig a bit deeper on the subject matter. Is there anybody on the Dialogue who could point out a good YouTube or online material that may at least give me a good start on the matter. I especially would like to start on the history of Utah.

Any suggestions welcome, thanks.

Edited March 10 by Tony uk
Grammar correction.

[manol]

I'm not much into the history of Utah but about thirty years ago I read a very enlighening paper by a college student.  She examined the economy of Utah between the time the Mormons first settled there (1846) and the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad (1869).  During this time period there was relatively little commerce between Utah and the United States (which lay to the East, on the other side of the Rocky Mountains), so the Utah economy developed pretty much independent of the US economy.

The US economy was market-based capitalism, and during this time the Utah economy was a blend between market-based capitalism and influence by the LDS Church.

My recollection is that there were two prominent business ventures launched with the support of the LDS Church in this time period:  A sugar beet farming-and-processing venture, and a soap factory.  The primary intention was to lift the whole community, and so (if I recall correctly) shares in these businesses were made available to poor people as well as wealthy people, so that everyone could benefit from the businesses' success.  The rich did not buy up all of the shares.  I don't recall how this was managed, but it was a deliberate departure from pure capitalism.  And the Utah Valley economy worked well... until the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad. 

Once the railroad was up and running, Utah businesses had to compete with more cheaply-and-efficiently produced goods, and a wider variety (and often higher quality) thereof, from the East.  In the short term the Utah economy got clobbered by the considerably-more-robust US economy. 

What had happened is this:  During the timespan from 1846 to 1869, the US economy grew at a faster rate than did the Utah economy.  So, measured by that yardstick, the experiment with trying to do a more "community-oriented, more considerate-of-the-poor" version of capitalism was a failure.  But I came away from reading that paper with an admiration for what the Mormons had tried to do, even if it ended up being less efficient than the free-market economy of the United States. 

 

Edited March 10 by manol

[Tony uk]

Many thanks for that Manol.

[bluebell]

53 minutes ago, manol said:

I'm not much into the history of Utah but about thirty years ago I read a very enlighening paper by a college student.  She examined the economy of Utah between the time the Mormons first settled there (1846) and the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad (1869).  During this time period there was relatively little commerce between Utah and the United States (which lay to the East, on the other side of the Rocky Mountains), so the Utah economy developed pretty much independent of the US economy.

The US economy was market-based capitalism, and during this time the Utah economy was a blend between market-based capitalism and influence by the LDS Church.

My recollection is that there were two prominent business ventures launched with the support of the LDS Church in this time period:  A sugar beet farming-and-processing venture, and a soap factory.  The primary intention was to lift the whole community, and so (if I recall correctly) shares in these businesses were made available to poor people as well as wealthy people, so that everyone could benefit from the businesses' success.  The rich did not buy up all of the shares.  I don't recall how this was managed, but it was a deliberate departure from pure capitalism.  And the Utah Valley economy worked well... until the completion of the Transcontinental Railroad. 

Once the railroad was up and running, Utah business had to compete with more cheaply-and-efficiently produced goods, and a wider variety (and often higher quality) thereof, from the East.  In the short term the Utah economy got clobbered by the considerably-more-robust US economy. 

What had happened is this:  During the timespan from 1846 to 1869, the US economy grew at a faster rate than did the Utah economy.  So, measured by that yardstick, the experiment with trying to do a more "community-oriented, more considerate-of-the-poor" version of capitalism was a failure.  But I came away from reading that paper with an admiration for what the Mormons had tried to do, even if it ended up being less efficient than the free-market economy of the United States. 

 

It would be interesting to compare the two economies in a fairer fight. The US economy was about 100 years old at this point and included many different industries. The Utah economy was about 20 years old at the latest. And had much fewer ways to make money than the entirety of the rest of the country did.

Which isn’t to say that the outcome wouldn’t end up being the same. I just don’t know how accurately we can judge when the parameters are so different for the two entities.  It seems like it would be like trying to compare the economy of a town with a few thousand people to the economy of a state with a few million.  But maybe in her paper she controlled for the disparity?

Edited March 10 by bluebell

[Calm]

There is also the disparity in purpose, how to measure success when the goals are different. 

Utah was not about maximizing wealth to begin with, but more about attempting to meet the needs of all of its residents, not prioritizing wealth building overall, either for the territory as a whole or a small percentage of its population. 
 

It would be interesting to compare poverty levels…but exactly how is beyond me. Variations needing to be controlled for seems insurmountable to me as I start to think of them.  You can’t just pick two areas with similar environments because they also would need similar interactions with surrounding areas if goods and people move in and out of the area. 

Edited March 10 by Calm

[Tony uk]

I imagine, in the early days of Utah. As with a number of other states, it was very much early days. People settling, the land being developed, new business enterprises only just starting up. I expect it would take some time for the state to become organised.

[rpn]

For many years, the history of Utah was the history of the Church of Latter-day Saints:

The second Volume of "Saints covers the history of the church from 1846 to 1893  

The Centennial Collection  is another source:  https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/734691

[Tony uk]

8 minutes ago, rpn said:

For many years, the history of Utah was the history of the Church of Latter-day Saints:

The second Volume of "Saints covers the history of the church from 1846 to 1893  

The Centennial Collection  is another source:  https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/734691

Many thanks for the information, much appreciated.

[Calm]

Leonard Arrington’s a highly respected historian.  Decent writer too as his books were enjoyable reads for me.  His Great Basin Kingdom might be out of date because it’s as old as I am, someone more knowledgeable than I am in history scholarship is needed, but it was the go to history for quite sometime and you can read it online here, hopefully for free.

https://archive.org/details/greatbasinkingdo0000arri_q8o0/page/n5/mode/2up

 

[Calm]

Resorting to chat because I don’t do podcasts:

Quote

Speak Your Piece: A Podcast About Utah's History (SYP) is a Buzzsprout podcast and Utah.gov initiative hosted by Utah Dept. of Culture & Community Engagement senior public historian Brad Westwood, covering 12,000+ years of Utah history. It features in-depth conversations with experts, covering diverse and often challenging topics—from Indigenous histories and pioneer life to civil rights and modern Utah, released bi-weekly

 

[Calm]

https://video.pbsutah.org/show/utah-history/

chttps://historytogo.utah.gov

Edited March 12 by Calm

[Calm]

https://ilovehistory.utah.gov
 

Hopefully one of these fits your learning style.  Chat recommends starting with the PBS documentaries and then going more in depth. With history to go.

[Tony uk]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

https://video.pbsutah.org/show/utah-history/

chttps://historytogo.utah.gov

Many thanks for your help Calm. 👍

[longview]

AI Summary

To understand ZCMI in Utah, consider the following points:

• ZCMI stands for Zion's Cooperative Mercantile Institution, established in 1868.
• It was a retail cooperative created by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• The main goal was to provide affordable goods to the local community and promote self-sufficiency.
• ZCMI operated various stores, including grocery, clothing, and general merchandise.
• It played a significant role in the economic development of Utah and surrounding areas.
• The institution eventually transitioned to a privately owned department store before closing in 1999.

[Tony uk]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

AI Summary

To understand ZCMI in Utah, consider the following points:

• ZCMI stands for Zion's Cooperative Mercantile Institution, established in 1868.
• It was a retail cooperative created by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• The main goal was to provide affordable goods to the local community and promote self-sufficiency.
• ZCMI operated various stores, including grocery, clothing, and general merchandise.
• It played a significant role in the economic development of Utah and surrounding areas.
• The institution eventually transitioned to a privately owned department store before closing in 1999.

Thanks Longview 

[Tacenda]

I'm excited for you to learn about my home state.

 

[Tony uk]

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm excited for you to learn about my home state.

 

Glad to hear that Tacenda. I very much enjoy learning history, and about the various places and people. Utah it seems, is a good place to learn about. 😁