Three Nephite Sightings

[Stargazer]

On 7/2/2025 at 3:14 PM, Tacenda said:

After reading your comment, my mind went to the sightings of "Big Foot", and some are really convincing. 

I doubt Bigfoot is one of the Three Nephites. 🤣 Not that you're saying that, of course. 

Personally, I give Bigfoot the benefit of the doubt. But the longer BF stays a cryptid, the more that benefit reduces in me.

[Teancum]

On 7/2/2025 at 3:25 PM, Calm said:

I am not a fan of 3 Nephite stories, but just speculating here as to whether or not it is so far fetched to have those with extended, protected life spans.

Assuming God exists (we can even simply define him as an extremely advanced being) and he has massive (won’t even call it perfect to put it in a more practical frame) knowledge due to existing eons (we can also ignore the spiritual side of things), wouldn’t he have a sufficient knowledge of human anatomy and medicine to remove aging effects and be able to increase the body’s own healing process to accelerate healing of injuries from accidents?  That would leave death by massive injuries still needing to be avoided in order to survive, but if his medical knowledge is advanced to the point he can bring people back to life, even that might not be an issue.  

If we can imagine the possibilities of the away team for Star Trek where they had individual force fields to protect from injury, transporter beams to remove them immediately from danger, I speculate that God—with his millions of years more to think of and then experiment and create devices—could create much more effective ways of doing the same thing.

I don’t see it as an impossibility if we first assume there is a God watching over humanity’s development on earth…whether there is anything spiritual or perfect about him or he is a very advanced being, possibly a human creating more of his kind for whatever reason….makes sense to me it could be done with enough advanced science and medicine.

Those are all pretty big ifs that lack evidential support don't you think?

[Tony uk]

Although I operate with limited knowledge on this, like most of my knowledge regarding LdS matters. Maybe think of this more through the eyes of humans, rather through the intentions of God. There maybe a potential number of ways the three Nephite s maybe of assistance to people. And the way this assistance maybe in a number of potential different ways. 

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Those are all pretty big ifs that lack evidential support don't you think?

Not really, in fact I would think it's inevitable. Research into the probability of advanced civilizations arising in the universe offers a thought-provoking perspective. Studies have shown that, given the vast number of stars and potentially habitable planets, the odds of humanity being the first advanced technological species are incredibly low – perhaps less than one in a trillion trillion. This suggests that it's statistically very likely that other intelligent, technologically advanced species will exist or have existed. Any being or civilization millions of years more advanced should develop technologies far beyond us – there is a universe evolving towards increasing complexity and computational capacity, potentially culminating in a state that could be described as 'God-like'.

While the specifics may be debatable, it's supported by the observed trajectory of our own technological growth. Some futurists suggest that ending human mortality can be done through technologies like nanorobotics or genetic editing. A sufficiently advanced AI would likely prioritize solving issues like aging and death. They would have an understanding of biology, physics, and computation, allowing them to manipulate the building blocks of life. 

Its not exactly an "if", rather exactly "how" and "when" life will achieve immortality and inevitably lead to the existence of a "god-like" being or computer with the ability to solve it. If this is achievable for us, it's statistically probable that it would be achievable for older intelligences, making the existence of such advanced beings, or 'gods,' a near statistical certainty.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Those are all pretty big ifs that lack evidential support don't you think?

I am talking about possibilities, whether something is logical nonsense or reasonable.  Given enough time, is there any reason that will always prevent a civilization from advancing to this point?

Edited July 7, 2025 by Calm

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I am talking about possibilities, whether something is logical nonsense or reasonable.  Given enough time, is there any reason that will always prevent a civilization from advancing to this point?

I was not arguing that there is not advanced civilizations at all. But that is much different than the supernatural mythical visits from three people that allegedly lived 2000 years ago. 

[Teancum]

On 7/2/2025 at 7:25 PM, Pyreaux said:

Your comparisons to elves and hobbits just echos of Dawkins New Atheism to dismiss people who report their experiences and historical documents as fairy tales just because they’re hard to verify, regardless of context, evidence, or tradition. That’s not skepticism, that’s laziness. It saves you from having to actually engage with what people are claiming, the context of those claims, or why they persist across generations. Flattening everything into mockery so you don’t have to think too hard, and a shortcut to feeling superior to others by pretending all mystery is stupidity.

Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. If you think that is lazy oh well. Why should anybody give credence to anecdotal stories about visits from three people talked about in a religious text that has only been believed by maybe 30 million people in the 200 years since it was published? Why should we give this anymore attention that say Bigfoot sittings or the Loch Ness Monster?  You also assume I have not spent time thinking fairly hard about such things at various points in my life and you would be wrong.  Why is the comparison to elves, fairies, hobbits, leprechauns and so on not a far comparison?  There is a rich tradition for all sorts of mythical creatures. Would you give credit to someone who claimed to be visited by Thor? If not why?

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I was not arguing that there is not advanced civilizations at all. But that is much different than the supernatural mythical visits from three people that allegedly lived 2000 years ago. 

Why does it have to be supernatural?  Why can’t it be a natural process brought about through advanced medicine and technology?

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Fantastic claims require fantastic evidence. If you think that is lazy oh well. Why should anybody give credence to anecdotal stories about visits from three people talked about in a religious text that has only been believed by maybe 30 million people in the 200 years since it was published? Why should we give this anymore attention that say Bigfoot sittings or the Loch Ness Monster?  You also assume I have not spent time thinking fairly hard about such things at various points in my life and you would be wrong.  Why is the comparison to elves, fairies, hobbits, leprechauns and so on not a far comparison?  There is a rich tradition for all sorts of mythical creatures. Would you give credit to someone who claimed to be visited by Thor? If not why?

Actually, I’d take that more seriously than you might expect. I don’t treat strange sightings as hallucinations by default.

Thor from the Norse Aesir gods, are imported Hindu Asuras, that displaced the native Vanir gods, the Fae, e.g. fairies. There's a throughline of cultural memory - call them archetypes, that runs through myths and religion alike. So yes - I do think these "gods" of the past might reflect real beings, remembered, if not distorted, across generations. Even my canon nods toward this when it speaks of “gods many and lords many” (1 Corinthians 8:5; D&C 132:20).

The point isn't whether you or I believe every story of the Three Nephites, rather that some people experience something, often transformative. Just because something isn’t replicable for you or I doesn’t mean its fiction. Also, that people are still having these experiences. Unless we're assuming they’re all stupid, I for one am more interested in why these patterns persist, and wheather the world might be more layered than your framework allows.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Pyreaux

[Teancum]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Why does it have to be supernatural?  Why can’t it be a natural process brought about through advanced medicine and technology?

Could be. I love Scifi. I speculate a lot on there being other advanced life. The law of large numbers makes it seem probable. On the other hand, even though it is probable it is still likely very rare and there are likely great distances between varying advanced civilizations. I am not smart enough on science and physics and such to know for sure, but the rapid space travel we are entertained with in Star Trek and Star Wars seems rather improbable  to me. And further, I am skeptical that any advanced technological life forms and God like with the powers we attribute to the God worshipped in Christianity and even Mormonism.  But I guess it is fun to speculate about it,

[Teancum]

2 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

Actually, I’d take that more seriously than you might expect. I don’t treat strange sightings as hallucinations by default.

Thor from the Norse Aesir gods, are imported Hindu Asuras, that displaced the native Vanir gods, the Fae, e.g. fairies. There's a throughline of cultural memory - call them archetypes, that runs through myths and religion alike. So yes - I do think these "gods" of the past might reflect real beings, remembered, if not distorted, across generations. Even my canon nods toward this when it speaks of “gods many and lords many” (1 Corinthians 8:5; D&C 132:20).

The point isn't whether you or I believe every story of the Three Nephites, rather that some people experience something, often transformative. Just because something isn’t replicable for you or I doesn’t mean its fiction. Also, that people are still having these experiences. Unless we're assuming they’re all stupid, I for one am more interested in why these patterns persist, and wheather the world might be more layered than your framework allows.

Fair enough. I backpedal on my initial comments.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

there are likely great distances between varying advanced civilizations.

Multigenerational ships where a civilization lives in space permanently seem the most likely to me if anyone visits here from afar.  However, maybe there is technology out there that removes that barrier.  I don’t based my above assumptions/speculation on that possibility though.

If you have practically immortal beings, long distances wouldn’t matter, especially if they go into cryogenic sleep or something similar when they get bored with traveling or want to prolong the use of resources.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Calm

[Teancum]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

Multigenerational ships where a civilization lives in space permanently seem the most likely to me if anyone visits here from afar.  However, maybe there is technology out there that removes that barrier.  I don’t based my above assumptions/speculation on that possibility though.

If you have practically immortal beings, long distances wouldn’t matter, especially if they go into cryogenic sleep or something similar when they get bored with traveling or want to prolong the use of resources.

Yes but still that does not address that such travel takes a really long time. But who knows. Maybe in the next ten years what makes me me and you you may be downloaded into some sort of AI/Human combination. 

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Yes but still that does not address that such travel takes a really long time.

If God parks his ship somewhere in the asteroids to oversee the development of humanity for every earth like planet he comes to and sticks around until the millennium, why would it matter?  Or he could be traveling around establishing worlds (the seeds of DNA or whatever could possess enough info from the beginning to create bodies capable similar life forms to God) and then taking off to set up more worlds or oversee other worlds’ completion stages until this earth was developed enough to produce humanoids that are capable of covenanting with God.  Then he just sticks around until the end of the Millennium before going to the next ready for ‘final’ development stage.

Edited July 7, 2025 by Calm

[Stargazer]

5 hours ago, Teancum said:

Would you give credit to someone who claimed to be visited by Thor? If not why?

Outside of the MCU, does Thor have any kind of visitation claim history? Over the last 2,000 years, anyway?

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If God parks his ship somewhere in the asteroids to oversee the development of humanity for every earth like planet he comes to and sticks around until the millennium, why would it matter?  Or he could be traveling around establishing worlds (the seeds of DNA or whatever could possess enough info from the beginning to create bodies capable similar life forms to God) and then taking off to set up more worlds or oversee other worlds’ completion stages until this earth was developed enough to produce humanoids that are capable of covenanting with God.  Then he just sticks around until the end of the Millennium before going to the next ready for ‘final’ development stage.

Perhaps Celestial couples are given stewardships over individual Earths and being Elohim beings are authorized to act in the role of the One True and Eternal God?

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Perhaps Celestial couples are given stewardships over individual Earths and being Elohim beings are authorized to act in the role of the One True and Eternal God?

It’s possible, but if I was a parent/claimed to be a parent, I would want to give hands on, personal attention to my children, not farm them out

[ZealouslyStriving]

47 minutes ago, Calm said:

It’s possible, but if I was a parent/claimed to be a parent, I would want to give hands on, personal attention to my children, not farm them out

If those who inherit the highest degree of Celestial Glory become one in Christ as Christ is with the Father, if they develop all the traits of Godhood, I don't see it as farming them out.

Or, using that argument, the Father farmed out the work of the Atonement to His Son, when He should've seen to it Himself. 

Or, why use Angel messengers? He should appear personally every time.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Or, using that argument, the Father farmed out the work of the Atonement to His Son, when He should've seen to it Himself. 

 

How could he become mortal again after receiving a resurrected body and and becoming exalted?

I think for our sakes, he doesn’t turn every encounter into a personal one on one with God as that would likely lead to too much knowledge too soon for most of us.

plus there is a difference between limited contact and no contact

Edited July 8, 2025 by Calm

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

How could he become mortal again after receiving a resurrected body and and becoming exalted?

Ask Bro. Brigham 😉

Edited July 8, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[Calm]

1 hour ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Ask Bro. Brigham 😉

I think Bro Brigham was wrong on Adam and Eve being resurrected beings. I think he reasoned it out based on his beliefs that they were the first humans on earth and that they hadn’t evolved along with the revealed knowledge we are God’s children and not created like a potter shapes a vase.  It contradicts the revealed knowledge that once we are resurrected, our bodies are perfect and our spirits are joined with them, as opposed to being housed within them temporarily.

That need is removed if you believe in evolution and God using natural processes to form the bodies of humans, with Adam and Eve being the first who made covenants with God and/or the first to house the spirits of God’s children or another speculation on who Adam and Eve were.

If Gods can detach themselves from their bodies, if Gods can sin after exaltation as apparently Brigham understood Adam and Eve to do, if Gods can lose their knowledge…how can we claim they are perfect?

Edited July 8, 2025 by Calm

[Teancum]

23 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Outside of the MCU, does Thor have any kind of visitation claim history? Over the last 2,000 years, anyway?

I think that is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. 

[Stargazer]

51 minutes ago, Teancum said:

I think that is irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. 

Of course it is. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 7/7/2025 at 5:36 PM, Teancum said:

Could be. I love Scifi. I speculate a lot on there being other advanced life. The law of large numbers makes it seem probable. On the other hand, even though it is probable it is still likely very rare and there are likely great distances between varying advanced civilizations. I am not smart enough on science and physics and such to know for sure, but the rapid space travel we are entertained with in Star Trek and Star Wars seems rather improbable  to me. And further, I am skeptical that any advanced technological life forms and God like with the powers we attribute to the God worshipped in Christianity and even Mormonism.  But I guess it is fun to speculate about it…
 

Yes but still that does not address that such travel takes a really long time. But who knows. Maybe in the next ten years what makes me me and you you may be downloaded into some sort of AI/Human combination. 

Unless they have the ability to fold space. Dune has that covered. They might be spice travelers….💫

Edited July 9, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[The Nehor]

On 7/2/2025 at 9:14 AM, Tacenda said:

After reading your comment, my mind went to the sightings of "Big Foot", and some are really convincing. 

Bigfoot and UFO sightings have plummeted ever since everyone started carrying a camera with them everywhere they go.