longview

Correct. I have always associated Heavenly Banner with the Constitution. Joseph Smith testified of this.

It won’t stay stocked. Don't be silly. If worse comes to worse, God can EASILY float MANNA onto the people. Three to six million former Hebrew slaves could not have any sustainable way of living wandering the howling wilderness for 40 years without the guidance of God. Being a “state within a state” is really really creepy. Also if all that becomes scarce mass starvation follows. The Church’s organization won’t keep functioning. It is spread out all over the nation and the breakdown of transportation would destroy it. I suppose it might work in a Second Coming situation if the 90%+ of the population is mass murdered by Jesus on His return. That might wipe out enough people that subsistence farming might be enough to feed the population even without electricity and fuel. If that is the purpose though I don’t think I want to live to see the Millenium. Oh sure! Better for the ENTIRE world to knuckle down to the uniformitarian collective, mindlessly obeying the dictates of the HIVE mind. At least, that was what Lucifer was demanding </end sarcasm>. By the way, it was not obsession but wisdom by Benson that helped strengthen the Constitutional Republic. He warned people against the delusions of collectivist utopia and encourage loyalty to the Heavenly Banner. Rent-takers are a blight on the economy. It is the idle eating the bread of the laborer writ large. That kind of passive income doesn’t come from nowhere. Young people do not always have the wherewithal buy a home. Others go thru transitions where they want live in a rental for only a few months or a few years. They would rather skip the burdens of ownership and onerous process of deed transfers. Home rentals and apartments are a very important service to people. The landlords and owners take on the burden of maintenance and risks of depreciation and a few abusive/dysfunctional renters. This is a good source of investment activity for the Middle Class that make up the backbone of a free and productive economy. I have my doubts that this large-scale growth in Africa will continue for much longer. There were several tribes in Africa that learned of the Church thru pamphlets and such in the early days. They organized themselves into informal "branches" even when missionaries could not come. They had to wait many years before the Church could make an official visit and bring the priesthood. Africa WILL grow by gangbusters just like South America. Aftrica WILL continue to grow to be dynamic just like South America is now dynamic. Maybe raise the Global South to the living standards of the rest of the world? Sounds like a better solution to me. No reason why they have to be LIKE western countries. African tribes can continue their pastoral ways (at least some) just like native Americans wanted to live in harmony with nature. The Church has been bringing innovative technologies such as the "sun oven" (I have one) or water filtration devices or any quality of life enhancements. The same is occurring for members in India. All local leaders will explore the most appropriate options. With assistance from various levels of leadership.

Breast augmentations don’t affect reproduction, so not sure what your comment has to do with my point. Women can even breast feed with them. I made my point specific and clear. I was NOT referring to plastic surgery. However, you did make a "connection" between the two in your paragraph below: Same medical outcomes? Agonizing regret for loss of procreative functions is FAR more serious than the vain regret of an unsatisfactory change in the "new body image".

There is NO "augmentation" that will prepare for the loss of procreative functions of either sex. Wokism is horribly evil.

Like in Minneapolis?

Let us also hope the Persians that are rising in great masses protesting the oppressive tyranny of the Iranian mullahs and fighting the threats of the Revolutionary Guards will ultimately prevail. May it return to the elegance of Iran like in the 60's and 70's. So sad that a thriving and liberated Lebanon was so thoroughly squashed by islamo-fascists.

I was struck by how much arm and hand gesticulating. It made me think of Elder Uchtdorf's energetic arm movements. Half expecting him to start signing in ASL (deaf sign language).

Mindless and pointless tangents are NOT helping the discussion. Why do you work so strenuously against Smac's straightforward concerns over the tragedy of BIID and GD mutilations. Please review my post where I answered SeekingUnderstanding then I will be able to determine your sincerity and respond to your question.

Interesting that you do not address the structuring and wording of the compounded convoluted question?

So it was a compounded convoluted question? The first phrase snidely implying that I believe nose jobs and face lifts to be EVIL. This is a red herring. The second phrase cynically asserting that I would go overboard arguing against these elective routine procedures. Calm's word salads are loaded with false premises and pointless tangents. She is working hard to avoid conceding Smac's sincere points in comparing the awful severity of BIID and GD mutilations. There was NO need to say one is worse than the other. BOTH are frightful and unwise and deeply concerning. As I stated in an earlier post: 'Calm frequently uses circular reasoning as a way to soft pedal the controversy or to show "broadmindedness" as a way to <bring> comfort <to> certain "victim classes".'

I was asking a question. I made it clear it was a question, a serous one. Your statement (numbered with a 1) below was NOT in the form of a question. A question mark was NOT even used. Your use of the word SO made it look like that I made this conclusion. For which you tried to denigrate me as if I believed this. No way in heck did you make it "clear" . . . The second phrase (numbered with a 2) was making a hypothetical about a nonsensical tangent totally unrelated to the discussion concerning BIID and GD mutilation. It is a completely UNserious diversion from the topic. It is pointless and seriously unclear. Adding NOTHING to the debate! Now you are gaslighting.

This is deflection and evasion. I have no opposition to face lifts and nose jobs. They are NOT radical and NOT dangerous and NOT irrational. Are you putting words into my mouth? You know better. Circular reasoning. The arguments against BIID and GD bodily mutilations are basic. The damage is indisputable and horrific. The loss of functions is IRREVERSIBLE. Most if not all will come to have agonizing regrets. There is NO help for accommodating BIID delusions. There is NO help for accommodating GD bodily mutilations. The professionals that engage in woke "affirmations" should be prosecuted for causing harm and for violating the hippocratic oath. Every step of the way! Completely? No, you are simply evading the obvious concerning BIID and GD bodily mutilations. You were soft pedalling the severity of GD bodily mutilations by arguing that BIID is horrific BUT GD mutilations is "not as bad" . . . I have read actual stories of a number of people who were glad to have waited. One said she was a rambunctious tom boy in her youth but was able to grow out of that phase later in life. She said she probably would have fallen for the woke propaganda had she been exposed to it during her high school years. Reasonable considerations BUT NOT on the same level as BIID and GD mutilations. @smac97 is an orderly thinker able to lay out an impressive array of points, considerations, pros and cons, issues, etc. But instead of simply acknowledging the basics concerning BIID and GD mutilations, you accuse him of being manipulative and emotional. I see NO evidence of either but real concerns for those that are in serious need of careful counsel. You chose to go into a "head butting" contest, going off into all kinds of tangents. Then forcing a huge debate about irrelevant tangents when the focus should remain on the basics.

You are grasping at straws. BIID (Body Integrity Identity Disorder) and GD (gender dysphoria) are BOTH indications of serious mental delusions and disturbances. Both use elective surgical mutilations that will NOT assuage the mental illness of those individuals and will NOT bring comfort to them. Both are optional though seriously deranged lifestyle choices that will utterly degrade the quality of life for those individuals. BIID will result in: dependency on wheelchairs, rail/lift system for moving to/from bed and bathroom and etc costly service of family or acquaintances or professionals reduced options for a vibrant and vigorous quality of life GD will result in: surgical mutilation of sexual organs will terminate the ability to have children unwarranted elective removal of female breasts will eliminate the capacity for nursing infants chemical and hormonal alterations leaving serious and damaging effects on their bodies It is NOT a false equivalence to say that BOTH are unwarranted and dangerous lifestyle choices that will seriously derail an abundant and healthy life. It is NOT emotional manipulation to say that a dispassionate observance of the damaging effects require caution, prudence, patience, more careful study, wisdom, etc. It is NOT a weak argument to acknowledge that many transgenders have publically come out to say that they grievously regret their appalling decision to undertake those procedures. It is VERY appropriate to make a comparison between BIID and GD. Both are IRREVERSIBLE and profoundly unwise. God is deeply saddened to see those choices being made by the gullible and the deceived. Sounds like soft pedalling, deflection and evasion. There is NO need to avoid considering the dire consequences of bad choices, whether it is GD, BIID, or other unwarranted lifestyle alterations. Important lessons can (and should) be made in observation of radical "detours" of life, especially when patience is called for.

You may be on to something! So I decided to ask two questions of chatGPT: Slightly more formal Circular reasoning occurs when the conclusion of an argument is used as one of its premises, making the argument logically invalid. Plain-language explanation It’s when someone says something is true because it’s true, without offering independent evidence. Common structure Claim: X is true. Reason: Because X is true. → No new justification is given. Example “This policy is fair because it’s the right thing to do.” Here, “fair” and “the right thing to do” mean essentially the same thing, so nothing is actually proven. Related terms (useful synonyms) Begging the question Logical fallacy Tautological reasoning If you want, I can help you tailor the description for an essay, debate, or casual explanation. what is it called when the main point is not being directly addressed or some kind of evasion? That’s generally called a red herring, but there are a few closely related terms depending on how the evasion happens. Here’s a clear breakdown so you can pick the best fit: Most common term Red herring An argument that distracts from the main issue by introducing an irrelevant point. <<<------- is this applicable? Example: “Why worry about climate change when there are people out of work?” → The new issue doesn’t address the original question. When someone avoids answering a direct question Evasion or dodging the question (informal but accurate) Ignoring the question / Non-response Failing to address the core claim at all. When the response changes the subject slightly Changing the subject Shifting focus to a related but different issue. Formal logical fallacies (useful in writing or debate) Missing the point (ignoratio elenchi) The argument proves something, but not the thing that was actually at issue. Whataboutism (common in politics) Deflecting criticism by pointing to another issue or hypocrisy elsewhere. Quick guide Distraction with irrelevant info → Red herring Answer avoids the core claim → Evasion / dodging the question Proves something else instead → Missing the point Deflects by comparison → Whataboutism So I am thinking maybe you are making various premises in order to avoid the main point? Maybe I call it circular because you like to squish around (or dance around) the main point? You are a MUCH better communicator than I am. I could NOT hold a candle to you. I think everybody would agree that your are the most eminent member of the board! ❤️

Respectfully, I reject the premise. I find penectomies as a treatment for gender dysphoria to be "extreme and highly unusual" as well, and you have not demonstrated otherwise, or even bothered to try. Calm frequently uses circular reasoning as a way to soft pedal the controversy or to show "broadmindedness" as a way to comfort certain "victim classes". Okay. I would first like to see it addressed substantively, rather than summarily and conclusorily dismissed as "ridiculous," emotionally manipulative, "inappropriate," etc. Circular reasoning is NOT substantive but appears to be more evasive.

Is it your understanding that Joseph started learning about biblical plural marriage in the early 1830's and was deeply reticent about the first commandments. It was 10 years of delays and putting off until God began putting more pressure on him in the early 1840's? I have heard it said that it was plural marriage that saved the church and made it stronger before the trek to the Rocky Mountains.

Christmas gifting is part of the Joy of the Season. We will NOT "render to Caesar" this jubilee season tradition. So don't even TRY to bring in accounting techniques. Do NOT even think it. Besides, in the LDS Church, kids do not pay tithing until they get baptized and formally become members of the Kingdom of God on Earth. Simple is better, right?

No need to complicate things. Everybody is gifting each other. Wipes the slate clean.

You are severely lacking in focus. Please re-read the entirety of my December 26 post you took the snippet from. Read it step by step. Take notes if you have to. Here. I'll help you: intelligences never having a beginning. always self aware. spirit children invited into the First Estate. mortal flesh and blood body for experiencing good and evil in fallen world, the Second Estate. probationary time for reconciliation and judgements in spirit paradise or prison. resurrection into one of three degrees of glory. if in TOP degree of the Celestial Kingdom, be assigned to a kingdom for starting a new Plan of Happiness, the next Eternal Round. only in this new kingdom can there be Eternal Increase thus becoming FULLY God. Heavenly Father went thru ALL of those steps just as the Gospel teaches. There are plenty of evidences in the Bible supporting this kind of progression. That should set you up. If not, then I will bow out. Adieu.

When the pros and the antis confirm each other, then the gauge goes upward. In the old days, they were illegal which is why back alley abortions were the most common option. In recent time with abortions increasingly permitted in liberal enclaves, people started voicing concerns. I don't know how many are done at each stage of the pregnancy but abortions is rarely if ever justified. The pros demand the convenience at EVERY stage. The pros DEMAND it. They explicitly refer to and label partial-birth abortions as THEIR right to control their bodies as they see fit. They call the lump of cells (the fetus) as an alien invader to be disposed of at their discretion. Because the devil shudders violently at hearing truth. You are NOT telling the whole story. There are many instances of white parents adopting minority children. I have read newspaper articles of government entities denying adoptions because they said it would be "cultural misappropriation of ethnicity". You are NOT telling the whole story. I asked chatGPT: 🏢 Major National Networks & Organizations Here are some of the key national organizations that operate or support pregnancy assistance centers (many focused on assisting expectant mothers, especially those considering alternatives to abortion): 1. Heartbeat International One of the largest and oldest networks of pregnancy help organizations. Supports and affiliates with thousands of pregnancy help centers globally. Provides 24/7 support via Option Line and offers referrals and resources for pregnant people. Heartbeat International+1 2. Care Net A major national network of pregnancy centers with over 1,000 affiliated locations. Offers counseling, material support, pregnancy decision coaching, and referrals. Care Net Also operates a Pregnancy Decision Line for immediate help. 3. Birthright International An international pregnancy help organization with free, confidential support services. Offers referrals for medical care, legal aid, employment resources, and more. Birthright 4. National Institute of Family and Life Advocates (NIFLA) Provides legal support, training, and resources to hundreds of pregnancy help centers. Works with many centers to offer ultrasounds and medical services (with training and support). Wikipedia 5. American Pregnancy Association A nonprofit that provides information and support resources related to pregnancy. Offers educational materials and guidance, though it functions differently from brick-and-mortar help centers. Wikipedia 📍 Examples of Local Pregnancy Assistance Centers These are actual center names drawn from directories and listings of pregnancy help locations (many affiliated with national networks): Osceola Pregnancy Center – Offers free pregnancy tests and referrals (FL). Osceola Pregnancy Center Heartbeat of Miami Pregnancy Help Medical Clinic (FL). Heartbeat International Essential Pregnancy Center (Palm Bay, FL). Heartbeat International Community Pregnancy Clinics Inc. (Naples, FL). Heartbeat International Cecil County Pregnancy Center (Elkton, MD). Heartbeat International Lighthouse Pregnancy Center (Hackensack, NJ). Heartbeat International Willow Network / Care Net Pregnancy Centers (New Hartford, NY). Heartbeat International Life Line Pregnancy Help Center (Elkin, NC). Heartbeat International 🧠 Terminology & Context These centers are commonly known by various names, including: Pregnancy Resource Center (PRC), Pregnancy Help Center (PHC), Pregnancy Care Center (PCC), Pregnancy Support Center, or simply Pregnancy Center. Heartbeat International They are distinct from licensed medical facilities and often operate as nonprofits. The scope of services ranges from basic material support and counseling to limited medical services (e.g., ultrasounds) depending on the center.

I would say a few from the pro-aborts but mostly the antis I don't believe your hogwash. There is great likelihood of the procedure being done over the years in secret. I am inclined to think they never were legal. But likely done over decades regardless of the law. I agree. I like to listen to conservative radio such as Sean Hannity and Mike Gallagher and a few others. I frequently hear advertisements for donations to provide free sonograms, in-clinic care, counseling, adoption services, etc. They are all over the country. There is a HUGE waiting list for adoption. Which is a crying shame. Millions of babies butchered needlessly. Not when the LEFT run cover for them.

I suppose you are right there are no clear policy published by any established organizations that I could find. Some probably are undercover about their support for the procedure. But what frequently occurs is "noise from the streets" that I have read (mostly opinion pieces and commentaries) over several decades. It is evident legacy media and social media platforms are tamping down those extreme views that do occasionally pop out. Do you deny that sometimes abortionists used partial birth procedures? No matter if there were laws against the practice in the states?

I am wondering if the Lord will continue with calling apostles from outside the USA. In order to make the church more international.

Nice job of soft-pedalling concerns about partial-birth abortions (and frequent "noise" about potential killing of "inconvenient" children post natal) by diverting into a whole series of "what abouts".

You think that doctors are unable to medicate the infant or even put into an induced coma? Please stop with the drama!