longview

Knights of Chivalry . . . Sons of Light . . . Adherents to Truth . . . Scouts for the One Way . . . Covenant Seekers . . .

I would like to pick your brain. Several decades ago, I read of an Israeli general who was on the phone asking: "Is this the end of the fifth temple?" This was during a surprise offensive by Arab nations. That caused me to ponder ever since. I came up with the following: Tabernacle of Moses. Transportable thru 40 years of wandering in the wilderness. And various places in the Promised Land. Temple of Solomon. First solid edifice and the most magnificent. It was destroyed by the Babylonian conquest. Temple of Zerubbabel. Not as glorious as Solomon's. Lasted for many centuries but underwent serious decay? Temple of Herod the Great. A massive upgrade including an impressive complex on the temple mount. It was destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman Empire. Fifth Temple. Prophesied to be built in Old Jerusalem before the Second Coming. Are you aware of which Jewish sects that use those kinds of designations? I inquired of chatGPT: Given the lack of documentation, the most likely explanations are: misremembered wording paraphrase from a sermon or commentary confusion with “Third Temple” apocalyptic language that became popular after the Six-Day War, when control of Jerusalem intensified messianic speculation 5) Why your “five temples” idea feels intuitive (but isn’t standard) Your schema: Tabernacle Solomon Zerubbabel Herod Future This is a logical architectural progression, but Jewish tradition groups it differently: Tabernacle = precursor Zerubbabel + Herod = one continuous Second Temple period Future = Third So your “five” comes from splitting what Judaism keeps unified. Bottom line for your forum post You could summarize it like this (accurately and defensibly): Judaism recognizes two historical temples and anticipates a Third Temple. Herod’s expansion is not counted as a separate temple. The idea of a “fifth temple” is not part of any mainstream Jewish sect’s theology. Groups that emphasize rebuilding a temple today exist, but they are minority movements, not representative of Judaism as a whole.

So true. The interests, the dividends, and all the compounding are all NON-tithing value from original NON-tithing "bequests" gifted by "grateful" members. All that NON-tithing funds were/are sufficient to pay for many "City Creek" sized projects. I asked chatGPT about who were involved in City Creek.

Interesting. If ward members are called into the bishopric, they have to be ordained into the office of High Priest. This makes me wonder if that is also the requirement for men called into the Seventies Quorum (third highest echelon of the Church). I believe there are now 12 quorums. So 12 times 70 is 840. If the number of quorums is greatly expanded to accommodate 144,000 - how many quorums would that be? Divide 144,000 by 70 is roughly 2,057. How fast would the Church have to grow to reach that number?

What would you considered not loaded and not ambiguous? Assigned? What effrontery! When the sex organ is unambiguously male <exclusive-OR> female AND/OR the DNA is either XX <exclusive-OR> XY AND sex organ aligns with DNA THEN there is no need to engage in woke "beating around the bushes". A better word would be recognized or observed. No need to monkey around with the birth certificate.

Or this could represent the total number of missionaries that will "max out" during the tribulation period. Currently we have: Missionaries Full-time teaching missionaries 78,596 Senior service missionaries 31,613 Young service missionaries 4,518 For a total of 114,727. We only got 29,273 to go. Unless we only want to count full-time missionaries then we need to grow the force by another 65,404.

I have always wondered about Leia's hairstyle (donuts over both ears). Is she emulating the design of tie fighters? http://finescale.com/~/media/images/workbench-reviews/2022/12-december/wba-amt-tie-fighter/_dsc0669cropped.jpg

Although I lean toward Sorensen's view, I did not vote for any. I remain concerned about explanations of the "directions" problem. I feel that there were severe cataclysms at the time of the Crucifixion that changed the landscape and caused much of the shorelines to greatly shift and bodies of water to appear and disappear. I wonder if the prophet Mormon was aware of the changes. If only we could recover the lost 116 page manuscript (it might provide a lot of clarifications such as pinpointing where Nephi's boat landed). I remember years ago of reading a column that natives told visiting archaeologists that MANY more structures remain buried under the dense cover of jungle. I am hoping for records to be unearthed in a few of those places.

Yes. As in the beloved Ruth of Moab who so tenderly entreated of Naomi and eventually married the honorable Boaz who was the forerunner of the Messiah. To glean is to seek for nuggets of truth and wisdom and faithfulness. Here a little, there a little. Precept upon precept.

It is NOT my contention that the Brass Plates originated with Joseph of Egypt. When I said "records" I was actually thinking of multiple scrolls from various sources. Including Jacob and Joseph. I have no idea of when any of the possessors started transcribing or even abridging the "records" onto brass plates. Did Joseph do it? Or even Laban? He was also powerful and wealthy. My guess would be immediate descendants of Ephraim and/or Manasseh. Or sometime after a "new pharoah" supplanted the previous regime.

ha ha. Because Laban set himself up to exercise unrighteous dominion over them, he became subject to God's condemnation. Pay close attention to the timeline, how there was a progression of more severe consequences.

As I indicated, the "records" possibly migrated with Joseph's sarcophagus to northern Israel then to Jerusalem. Along the way, it acquired the "five books of Moses" plus had references to relatively unknown prophets such as Zenos and Zenock who probably lived in the north. Jeremiah was a contemporary of Lehi and Laban. Laban must have considered Jeremiah to be a major prophet so he could easily have the words added to the Brass Plates with metal sheets inserted. BEFORE Nephi and his brothers showed up to mightily disturb Laban. The genealogy mentioned by Lehi might have focused on descendants of Manasseh which continued to be updated all the way to to the time of Laban. Hel 8:19 And now I would that ye should know, that even since the days of Abraham there have been many prophets that have testified these things; yea, behold, the prophet Zenos did testify boldly; for the which he was slain. Hel 15:11 Yea, even if they should dwindle in unbelief the Lord shall prolong their days, until the time shall come which hath been spoken of by our fathers, and also by the prophet Zenos, and many other prophets, concerning the restoration of our brethren, the Lamanites, again to the knowledge of the truth—

Would it be more likely that Joseph of Egypt (son of Jacob/Israel) had the time, wealth, and prestige to consolidate all extant Hebrew records from Noah, Shem, Melchizedek, Abraham, Isaac, and Israel. Did he already have his new version of "innovative" reformed Egyptian script that easily corresponded with the Hebrew. His sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, could have maintained this record and passed them on to their descendants. When the Hebrews started being subjugated into slavery, they could have hidden the records in the sarcophagus of Joseph (the bones of Joseph). Which was eventually moved into the northern parts of Canaan (the inheritances of the Tribes of Ephraim and/or Manasseh). The progenitors of Lehi and Laban may have eventually migrated south to the land of Jerusalem. Thus safely preserving the records from the destruction of the Northern Kingdom (Lost Ten Tribes).

I agree on this one! One speaker and done. This would limit each ward to only 49 Sundays thus only 49 speakers per year. This will deny a youth speaker and two adults. Thus depriving 98 people the opportunity for public speaking and building character.

I get a good chuckle from time to time. I offered a post (several pages ago) concerning a thought experiment on how far down the quantum particles will subdivide, becoming "finer and finer" which might reveal the realm of spirit matter. Your response seemed to accept the concept but then you tried to deflect by "demanding" that I read a ponderous (was it 600 pages?) philosophical work. The reason for my post was because you claimed that any consideration of spirits and angels were "unscientific" and thus were to be dismissed and NOT be part of the discussion. Which makes you out to be very "self-serving".

Forgive me for becoming jaded with his constant drumbeat of negativity and unending rupture of victim classes and outrage at how awful and unjust mortal experiences are. Frequently pontificating on how God is just NOT proceeding with his expectations.

With the wave of your hands, you will pronounce an unassailable conclusion that simply cannot be refuted. </end sarcasm>

A very petulant post. Sounds kind of whiney. The Second Estate: make of it however you want to proceed. Rejecting the power of the Atonement will afford a different path for you.

Oh? Were you force-fed Snelgroves before bedtime? ----------(just kidding)---------

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

I hear this a lot but experience hasn’t borne this out in my experience. Your experience? Are you claiming you know what God knows? Not during mortalityj!

I don’t think this has anything to do with discipleship. I don’t think any real form of purity is even possible for humans. Some elements of what we call purity or aspirational but the nature of our being makes it impossible to achieve. This is NOT about perfection. This mortal fallen world is intended to be a challenge and a test and a learning experience. We can strive to be pure WITHOUT having to be perfectly pure. The Plan of Happiness is marvelous. Discipleship is WORTH striving for! We can make choices about important issues (about everything). Some deserve careful consideration. That seem like it is just worrying about what the neighbors will think with extra steps. Jesus wasn’t big on that kind of thinking. Signaling to God is more important than appeasing carnal flesh. Which is odd since the Word of Wisdom as written endorses beer drinking and doesn’t mention any of those reasons for the things it does disapprove of. Yet some do get into grief with over consumption of beer. Trust in God's counsels and His saving commands. God doesn’t need us to do virtue signaling to figure out where someone stands. Neither does God want us to do "play acting" but to truly engage in the challenges of mortal life. It is a tremendous blessing to participate in the Second Estate. No, I would not give my child (even if they are an adult) pornography or a lurid item (I assume you mean sex toys here). That would be deeply weird. It would be weird with any family member really. This is why we gauge our choices. Some are off limits. Some require sincere and thoughtful considerations. Some are in the gray zone. I don’t know of any scripture that makes the “hot drinks” bit less important than the “strong drink” bit. I know that culturally they are treated differently on separate tiers but I have no reason to believe God makes any such distinction. God sees the heart and the mind AND knows MORE than you know about yourself. GOOO-O-O-O-O-O MAHA ! ! ! (Make America Healthy Again)

True. The Soviets downplayed computer science. They used large staffs of mathematicians. The US had a huge advantage in computers for quickly calculating orbital mechanics and also for manufacturing and design.

It is NOT just any worldly culture. This is a more important test of discipleship. It is NOT just about purity (although it is one of the important attributes for emulating God). It is about messaging. To the receiver, it is love, esteem, gratitude, etc. To some, it might signal a willingness to compromise standards or integrity. Everyone needs to be aware of the negative aspects of alcohol consumption. Such as toxicity to the liver, addictions, mind alterations, etc. Some families are cursed by fractured relationships, financial ruin, violence, etc. Why would sincere disciples want to send a double-minded message? What kind of message would they want to send to God? Suppose you substitute pornagraphy or some lurid item, would you be comfortable? We did the same for my grandma when I was a kid. FWIW I definitely don't feel the same about coffee or tea as I do with drinking or smoking. Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

Buying whiskey as a gift (even for close relations) is like financing a lifestyle choice when you personally choose NOT to indulge in it. That would be a huge contradiction IMO. I would NOT purchase for inactive children (even for sons and daughters). We know that George Romney (former governor of Michigan) kept a bar in his home for his guests. That is also a contradiction IMO.