"LDS Church: Legal analysis raises concerns about Utah medical marijuana initiative"

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It is beautiful. My brother got married there a few years back. The cost of living is horrendous of course but what can you do? ...

Establish New Jerusalem?

https://eom.byu.edu/index.php/New_Jerusalem

[poptart]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

23 years ago I married into a Latter-day Saint family from Washington State.  They are some of the finest people I have ever known.  Salt of the earth.  Kind.  Welcoming.  Good.

My wife spent her entire childhood in Washington, and speaks very warmly of it.  She also speaks highly of the Latter-day Saint communities in which she was raised (Federal Way and, later, Poulsbo).

I have visited Washington State dozens of times, including a two-month stint of living there over a summer.  My in-laws' ward was great.  Very nice and welcoming and kind.  Just like my in-laws.

I am sorry to hear you had a bad experience in Washington.  

Thanks,

-Smac

At this point i'm enjoying watching Seattle and Tacoma go down the drain, lets see what the entitled people do once things get really bad.  Think some pain and suffering would do them some good.

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is beautiful. My brother got married there a few years back. The cost of living is horrendous of course but what can you do? My brother’s down payment was about 3/4s the value of my entire house. Mine is over twice as big and built three years ago. His was built in the 60s. Still, he can go wind surfing easily so I think it is worth it to him.

Flip side is lots of people are still moving there.  Will give WA this, the outdoors scene is great and so long as you don't have a family to worry about it's quite nice.  Mistake I made was going to Tacoma, should have found a way to stay in Seattle.  Capital hill was fantastic, had the non judgemental vibe I was looking for.

On 8/7/2019 at 1:39 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

Well, I'm sorry for what you've experienced, although I do wonder how much of what you say here is a matter of provable fact and how much is a matter of perception.  Perception is a powerful thing, but it can be (and often is) far different from reality. As I've said here so often, none of us sees the world as it is; rather, we see it as we are.  In any case, I wish you well. 

As for vouching for "my own kind," "my own kind" are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: They come from rural, suburban, and urban areas, from all walks of life, from most all political persuasions, and are of every race, color, and socioeconomic background.  They come from almost every area of the world, North and South America, Mexico, Central America, Europe, Africa, Asia, and Australia.  These things make us far different from one another in many ways.  However, what unites us is far more important and far stronger than anything that might divide us as we are "knit together in love." (Colossians 2:2).  Many of them are former alcoholics, drug addicts, and reformed criminals; some of them have endured abuse, poverty, squalor, and other desperate circumstances which I can barely imagine.  I salute them for responding to the Good Shepherd's call to join the fold when doing so took more courage than I can possibly imagine. We seek, however haltingly, however hesitatingly, however imperfectly, to obey the Lord's injunction, "I say unto you, Be one, and if ye are not one, ye are not Mine." (Doctrine and Covenants 38:27).  They, along with those outside the circle I describe, are my brothers and sisters, and I love them. 

Is the description in the foregoing paragraph an ideal?  Yes.  Do I fall short of that ideal, and do others?  Unquestionably.  Do we fall short often?  Certainly.  Are we as welcoming to those outside of that circle as we should be?  There is room for improvement on that score, as well.  On the other hand, it's rather difficult to hug a porcupine.  You might ask yourself whether, deep down, you are more interested in getting mileage out of your outsider status than you are in laying aside any differences and grievances (insofar as that is possible to do).  While I don't know you well enough to know whether you fit into this category, many people find the cloak of victimhood comfortable, stylish, and validating.  As long as I'm determined to be a victim, then I don't need to take any responsibility for my own choices, my own circumstances, or my own destiny.  While I recognize that your mileage likely varies, as life reminds me so frequently, there only so much I can do to choose my own circumstances.  Life is 10 percent about what happens to me, and 90 percent about how I respond to it (which is the only thing I can control).

Again, I recognize that your mileage likely varies.  In any event, I wish you well.

Stuff is relative and yeah, not all of you are bad, if so I would have left this board long ago. 

Ahh, there it is, that same thing that Mormons and most religious people here do, get wishy washy and bland out the blame.  At least the Pope had the guts to not only apologize for what Rome did to the Protestants, they help celebrate things like Reformation Day.  Youre nice but a lot of your lot isn't.  You guys get hauled into court a lot, you do favor your own in hiring practices and lets not forget prop 8, I'm waiting for the next time your own is stupid enough to pull something like that, will be laughing when someone like Antifa shows up and makes the prop 8 protests look like a Sunday social.  Will add, pretty much all religious groups have done it, from what i've seen what makes your lot stand out is unlike the rest of Christendom here stateside you knew better than to pull the same arrogant moves their ilk did.  While numbers wise you're holding steady Christianity here is on the way out, partially I think because of their kinds poor behavior and meanness to their own.  They finally angered millenials to the point where they just walked away.  Kind of funny how their kind is taking the looser position thinking the rapture is coming.  Amazing, their kind has been spoiled beyond belief, now that they're being replaced they expect their deity to come down, kill the people they don't like and clean up the mess that they made.  Going to be interesting when they really are on the ropes numbers wise and they finally turn on each other. 

Be that as it may, it was your kind that was quite unplesant as they often are to the poor and disturbed, have to look no further than the homeless population in Seattle and now Tacoma to figure that out.  I am enjoying watching the fear in people as they realize their wealth and gated communities can't shelter them from the now harsh realities.  For those of us who don't believe in your gods, watching this all happen is glorious, free entertainment at the expense of a people I really don't like.

Edited August 8, 2019 by poptart

[Kenngo1969]

Poptart,

No offense was intended, but if you insist on taking it anyway, neither I nor anyone else here can stop you.

[poptart]

56 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Poptart,

No offense was intended, but if you insist on taking it anyway, neither I nor anyone else here can stop you.

It's a touchy subject, was trying to soften the blow.  Thing is, when something like that happens when your life is already pure hell you never forget it.  Wasn't anything against you.  TBH, in retrospect the LDS folks were not quite as mean, it was mostly the other Christians.  Was interesting working at DI, felt like it was the place the wards shoved the rejects.  That being said, wow compared to say good will or St. Vincent they had much nicer stuff, most of my appliances were from DI.  Loved it when we'd get espresso machines and what not, at least members donated nicer things, most other religious folks I ran into were content to judge from their safe gated suburbs. 

Still, that judgement, that arrogance and disconnect from the less fortunate that so many up there had, esp. the religious still makes me want to throw up.  I can't stand their kind.

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, poptart said:

It's a touchy subject, was trying to soften the blow.  Thing is, when something like that happens when your life is already pure hell you never forget it.  Wasn't anything against you.  TBH, in retrospect the LDS folks were not quite as mean, it was mostly the other Christians.  Was interesting working at DI, felt like it was the place the wards shoved the rejects.  That being said, wow compared to say good will or St. Vincent they had much nicer stuff, most of my appliances were from DI.  Loved it when we'd get espresso machines and what not, at least members donated nicer things, most other religious folks I ran into were content to judge from their safe gated suburbs. 

Still, that judgement, that arrogance and disconnect from the less fortunate that so many up there had, esp. the religious still makes me want to throw up.  I can't stand their kind.

I would shop the DI in the past, and my late dad would, he loved collecting the old lawn chairs and take off the webbing and replace with yarn and make designs on them. I'll post a pic below of an example. 

When I would go there, I donated tons as well, I would get upset at the high prices that the DI tagged items. Once, I was so mad I took it to the manager and asked why it was more than the original tag that someone left on. If this store was for the needy I sure would hope they would get some kind of discount on all of these donated items. But I do understand it's a great step for those needing to get work experience. But you would think the church has enough money they don't need to make tons of money off of these donations. 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tacenda

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I would shop the DI in the past, and my late dad would, he loved collecting the old lawn chairs and take off the webbing and replace with yarn and make designs on them. I'll post a pic below of an example. 

When I would go there, I donated tons as well, I would get upset at the high prices that the DI tagged items. Once, I was so mad I took it to the manager and asked why it was more than the original tag that someone left on. If this store was for the needy I sure would hope they would get some kind of discount on all of these donated items. But I do understand it's a great step for those needing to get work experience. But you would think the church has enough money they don't need to make tons of money off of these donations. 

 

Here's the thing, those things get tagged in receiving.  I would see that too, I'd usually tack in depreciation.  I learned to shop at thrift stores after that, not only do you get something functional considering the quality of things nowadays you get something you can make fantastic with a bit of work. 

They did help out members, I remember a few times them pretty much giving a couch to an elderly family that had a developmentally disabled child.  I know people would gripe about them helping members, my attitude was why don't other churches do that?  I know catholic charities does a lot but from my experience the others either didn't have the resources or just didn't care.  Lesson I learned was it's pointless to criticize someone when your own group does nothing for their own.

[Bernard Gui]

44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I would shop the DI in the past, and my late dad would, he loved collecting the old lawn chairs and take off the webbing and replace with yarn and make designs on them. I'll post a pic below of an example. 

When I would go there, I donated tons as well, I would get upset at the high prices that the DI tagged items. Once, I was so mad I took it to the manager and asked why it was more than the original tag that someone left on. If this store was for the needy I sure would hope they would get some kind of discount on all of these donated items. But I do understand it's a great step for those needing to get work experience. But you would think the church has enough money they don't need to make tons of money off of these donations. 

 

CFR that the Church makes tons of money off of DI donations.

FWIW, a bishop can write orders for people to get items they need at no cost. Some of the merchandise is newly constructed by people in the DI Program.  

BTW, a friend is a manager at our local DI, and our son Persistissimo with some learning disability got his first job there which set him on a great track ending in a college degree. The autistic son of a family friend served a one-year mission in the SLC facility. Best thing that ever happened to him.

I think DI would be near the bottom of LDS things critics choose to pick on, but nothing surprises me any more.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

CFR that the Church makes tons of money off of DI donations.

FWIW, a bishop can write orders for people to get items they need at no cost. Some of the merchandise is newly constructed by people in the DI Program.  

BTW, a friend is a manager at our local DI, and our son Persistissimo with some learning disability got his first job there which set him on a great track ending in a college degree. The autistic son of a family friend served a one-year mission in the SLC facility. Best thing that ever happened to him.

I think DI would be near the bottom of LDS things critics choose to pick on, but nothing surprises me any more.

I will take the CFR and give you one, I should have said IMO. I do understand that they help a lot of people. And I do know they help those that need it and have a bishop's order. I lived by two neighbors that managed two different DI stores. Another neighbor who's very LDS use to get after them and tell them DI charges too much, lol. 

I'm sorry if I criticised, I just think the pricing is a little on the skiwampus side. But I know it's hard to control the employee that is putting those stickers on, all the time.

Again, I'm sorry. 

 

[Bernard Gui]

36 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I will take the CFR and give you one, I should have said IMO. I do understand that they help a lot of people. And I do know they help those that need it and have a bishop's order. I lived by two neighbors that managed two different DI stores. Another neighbor who's very LDS use to get after them and tell them DI charges too much, lol. 

I'm sorry if I criticised, I just think the pricing is a little on the skiwampus side. But I know it's hard to control the employee that is putting those stickers on, all the time.

Again, I'm sorry. 

 

No worries. I just don't believe DI deserves a bum rap. 

Living on a one-person teacher's salary, the Gui family spent a lot of time in Goodwill, St Vincent de Paul's, Value Village, Salvation Army, and DI stores. Goodwill was by far the most expensive. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

Here's the thing, those things get tagged in receiving.  I would see that too, I'd usually tack in depreciation.  I learned to shop at thrift stores after that, not only do you get something functional considering the quality of things nowadays you get something you can make fantastic with a bit of work. 

They did help out members, I remember a few times them pretty much giving a couch to an elderly family that had a developmentally disabled child.  I know people would gripe about them helping members, my attitude was why don't other churches do that?  I know catholic charities does a lot but from my experience the others either didn't have the resources or just didn't care.  Lesson I learned was it's pointless to criticize someone when your own group does nothing for their own.

When I served as a bishop, we were at a stake welfare training meeting. Another bishop mentioned that some of his ward members were upset that people getting Storehouse orders got butter while they could only afford margarine. Our stake president said, "Bishop, just remind them that those people are eating at the Lord's table." I have often spoken and written in public that if every church would do fast offerings, poverty could be eliminated at no cost and with no government intervention. I even wrote to the Post Master General once and suggested an optional postage stamp that cost $.05 more than a regular stamp with the excess money going directly to help the poor. Never got a response.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/8/2019 at 12:37 PM, poptart said:

At this point i'm enjoying watching Seattle and Tacoma go down the drain, lets see what the entitled people do once things get really bad.  Think some pain and suffering would do them some good.

Flip side is lots of people are still moving there.  Will give WA this, the outdoors scene is great and so long as you don't have a family to worry about it's quite nice.  Mistake I made was going to Tacoma, should have found a way to stay in Seattle.  Capital hill was fantastic, had the non judgemental vibe I was looking for.

Stuff is relative and yeah, not all of you are bad, if so I would have left this board long ago. 

Ahh, there it is, that same thing that Mormons and most religious people here do, get wishy washy and bland out the blame.  At least the Pope had the guts to not only apologize for what Rome did to the Protestants, they help celebrate things like Reformation Day.  Youre nice but a lot of your lot isn't.  You guys get hauled into court a lot, you do favor your own in hiring practices and lets not forget prop 8, I'm waiting for the next time your own is stupid enough to pull something like that, will be laughing when someone like Antifa shows up and makes the prop 8 protests look like a Sunday social.  Will add, pretty much all religious groups have done it, from what i've seen what makes your lot stand out is unlike the rest of Christendom here stateside you knew better than to pull the same arrogant moves their ilk did.  While numbers wise you're holding steady Christianity here is on the way out, partially I think because of their kinds poor behavior and meanness to their own.  They finally angered millenials to the point where they just walked away.  Kind of funny how their kind is taking the looser position thinking the rapture is coming.  Amazing, their kind has been spoiled beyond belief, now that they're being replaced they expect their deity to come down, kill the people they don't like and clean up the mess that they made.  Going to be interesting when they really are on the ropes numbers wise and they finally turn on each other. 

Be that as it may, it was your kind that was quite unplesant as they often are to the poor and disturbed, have to look no further than the homeless population in Seattle and now Tacoma to figure that out.  I am enjoying watching the fear in people as they realize their wealth and gated communities can't shelter them from the now harsh realities.  For those of us who don't believe in your gods, watching this all happen is glorious, free entertainment at the expense of a people I really don't like.

Prop 8 was an appropriate and legal reaction to unwise cultural change. One of our sons lived in LA during the time. Their little kids got a real lesson in bigotry against religious people.

Antifa is good for absolutely nothing at all. Losers' heaven. 

Having lived in the Puget Sound region for 40 years, I can't agree with your assessments, but you have your own experiences. Having observed the homeless in Seattle, Tacoma, and here in Pierce County and having a son who was homeless for 5 years, allowing them to live like they do and calling it compassion is about as cruel as it gets. 

Your sense of amusement is interesting.

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Prop 8 was an appropriate and legal reaction to unwise cultural change. One of our sons lived in LA during the time. Their little kids got a real lesson in bigotry against religious people.

Antifa is good for absolutely nothing at all. Losers' heaven. 

Having lived in the Puget Sound region for 40 years, I can't agree with your assessments, but you have your own experiences. Having observed the homeless in Seattle, Tacoma, and here in Pierce County and having a son who was homeless for 5 years, allowing them to live like they do and calling it compassion is about as cruel as it gets. 

Your sense of amusement is interesting.

How's your son doing now, it sounds like he's maybe not homeless any longer. I was thinking the other day, that some are happier homeless, they take themselves out of the rat-race so-to-speak. There are many that sell everything and just live in a van or car, and do rather well. And they're not mentally ill or anything. Some days, if it weren't for my family, I'd be on the road. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tacenda

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think DI would be near the bottom of LDS things critics choose to pick on, but nothing surprises me any more.

When we provide unpaid aid to disaster victims they complain about our T-shirts. Even the greatest limbo competitor in the history of the world would be unable to bend over backwards far enough to satisfy them.

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

When we provide unpaid aid to disaster victims they complain about our T-shirts. Even the greatest limbo competitor in the history of the world would be unable to bend over backwards far enough to satisfy them.

 

Haha! How looowwww can they go?

[poptart]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Prop 8 was an appropriate and legal reaction to unwise cultural change. One of our sons lived in LA during the time. Their little kids got a real lesson in bigotry against religious people.

Antifa is good for absolutely nothing at all. Losers' heaven. 

Having lived in the Puget Sound region for 40 years, I can't agree with your assessments, but you have your own experiences. Having observed the homeless in Seattle, Tacoma, and here in Pierce County and having a son who was homeless for 5 years, allowing them to live like they do and calling it compassion is about as cruel as it gets. 

Your sense of amusement is interesting.

Your son was homeless, then you have a good idea of what I went through.  It was awful, I basically fled a horrible situation that wasn't my fault and most people assumed I was homeless because of poor choices.  Try having a violent alcoholic for a father who resented you his whole life because of poor choices he made.  He destroyed everything he touched and in addition to taking years off moms life he almost killed her, the restraining order i took out on him is still on file.  I hated it, everyone assumed I was in the position I was in because I deserved it, I couldn't stand being around them.  Not all of us get to have two educated parents from the suburbs who have good social networks and education, I just wasn't worthy enough for their kind.

Yeah,  I have a bit of a twisted sense of humor and justice, it can  be kinda mean sometimes, but then again I had to go through similar things as a child thanks to a lot of people here so I figure it's even.