John Dehlin Receiving Public Funds

[smac97]

Interesting:

Quote

The Deseret Stone | @DeseretStone

While we’re on the topic of shady government handouts:

Who:

>Got $46,728 in PPP Loans?

And…

>Falsely represented his “non-profit” as a mental health practitioner for $20,833 of those loans?

Yup! It’s 100% absolutely not a mental health practitioner @JohnDehlin!

Followups:

Quote

See, John’s not actually a licensed anything, really. 

And he’s certainly not a mental health practitioner.

He couldn’t hold that license and run his podcast, but his podcast earns more money than the average shrink does anyway, so it’s not a big deal to him.

---

You may be thinking, “maybe it was just a paperwork mistake! Maybe someone else mis-categorized his podcast business as a Mental Health Practitioner!”

That’s very kind (gullible) of you, but that’s not how the forms work.

The form requires what’s called an NAICS code.

---

So, John and his accountants sat down, found NAICS code 621330, and decided that this code - which, again, is for actual licensed mental health practitioners, not grifting podcasters who can’t edit / “life coaches” like Johnny Boy - described his business correctly.

---

Except it’s quite obviously clear that this… simply isn’t the case.

John loves to refer to his PhD and and wink and nudge, but he avoids actually claiming to be a shrink because he knows that could land him in trouble.

Well, except on PPP loans for a free $20k, ofc.

---

Oh, and those PPP loans were to help businesses struggling with COVID restrictions survive, right?

Just help folks keep the lights on, endure a loss of income?

So, had John lost any income during covid?

Nope - it went up by about 40% before factoring in the free $46k handout.

---

So, the next time John’s whining about the Church’s finances, it’d probably be interesting to ask him about this.

It’d probably also be interesting to ask him why he stopped providing specific reports on his finances right as he got the free PPP money as well.

---

He’s now pulling in $1.2 million a year from this.

So he could easily afford to pay back the $46k he didn’t need.

Or at least the $20k he lied about.

You should ask him about that, too.

I wonder if any "pro-Mormon" outfits have sought/received government handouts.  I hope not.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Raingirl]

This does not surprise me at all. 

[Doctor Steuss]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I wonder if any "pro-Mormon" outfits have sought/received government handouts.  I hope not.

Thanks,

-Smac

From a brief look through ProPublica's searchable database, the More Good Foundation has had over half a million in PPP loans forgiven.  $301,258 forgiven as of 3/7/22, and $233,980 forgiven as of 11/3/2020.  FAIR had $13,401 forgiven.  The Mormon Heritage Association had $27,569 forgiven.  The Book of Mormon Foundation had $18,900 forgiven.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Interesting:

Followups:

I wonder if any "pro-Mormon" outfits have sought/received government handouts.  I hope not.

Thanks,

-Smac

And... I'm not so worried about PPP loans. 

"The Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) is a $953-billion business loan program established by the United States federal government during the Trump administration in 2020 through the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act) to help certain businesses, self-employed workers, sole proprietors, certain nonprofit organizations, and tribal businesses continue paying their workers."

It seemed rather like rain. It poured on good and bad alike. I am not entirely in agreement with this program, in principle, and I'm sure there were plenty of people taking advantage of it unjustly. But... it may have served a just purpose, all in all.

Although I have to shudder at the nearly 1 Trillion dollar price tag. Talk about inflation...

Edited March 4 by Stargazer

[ttribe]

My response as a forensic accountant and as an exmo - If he did something illegal, then he should face the appropriate punishment.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Doctor Steuss said:

From a brief look through ProPublica's searchable database, the More Good Foundation has had over half a million in PPP loans forgiven.  $301,258 forgiven as of 3/7/22, and $233,980 forgiven as of 11/3/2020.  FAIR had $13,401 forgiven.  The Mormon Heritage Association had $27,569 forgiven.  The Book of Mormon Foundation had $18,900 forgiven.

Those are all amateur amounts. It was fun when the legislators whining about unfair handouts during the student loan forgiveness thing were found to have received PPP “loan” (not actually loan, they were just given the money) amounts a couple of orders of magnitude greater than what a student would get. Free government handouts to the wealthy, free bootstraps for the students.

[Calm]

So looking at another X  post, it looks like the taxpayer funds is not every year, but can you tell what this one was for?

Tried to link to it, oddly couldn’t, it’s from Feb 5.  The one in red for 884,196?  Added:  need new glasses, didn’t register the boxes were for more companies than just Dehlin’s, feel free to ignore this likely irrelevant post

Edited March 4 by Calm

[Calm]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Those are all amateur amounts. It was fun when the legislators whining about unfair handouts during the student loan forgiveness thing were found to have received PPP “loan” (not actually loan, they were just given the money) amounts a couple of orders of magnitude greater than what a student would get. Free government handouts to the wealthy, free bootstraps for the students.

I know we have gotten a bit careless due to Nemesis not holding the reins as firmly as usual, but can we not do the politics here please.

[The Nehor]

I doubt Dehlin will face an investigation. There are a lot of people who would get really cagey if federal agencies started auditing PPP money.

Plus we are currently hacking apart all the agencies who would investigate things like this so probably not enough manpower or resources even if anyone wanted to look into it.

[ttribe]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I doubt Dehlin will face an investigation. There are a lot of people who would get really cagey if federal agencies started auditing PPP money.

Plus we are currently hacking apart all the agencies who would investigate things like this so probably not enough manpower or resources even if anyone wanted to look into it.

There have been numerous prosecutions for PPP loan fraud over the past several years. That being said, the current administration appears be de-emphasizing white collar crime investigations, so you're probably right that nothing will happen on this.

[Doctor Steuss]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

So looking at another X  post, it looks like the taxpayer funds is not every year, but can you tell what this one was for?

Tried to link to it, oddly couldn’t, it’s from Feb 5.  The one in red for 884,196?

ProPublica's database has a single PPP for GlobalGiving.  $880,000 (forgiven 6/10/21).

From Wiki, it sounds like they are a kind of one-stop-shop for donating.  Somewhat ironic, in that it seemingly dilutes your giving potential by filtering it through a middle-man that retains a portion to cover their operations and salaries.  Although, supposedly, they "vet" all charities that they sub-divide to.  If the chart is meant to show what organizations have donated to Dehlin's gig, GlobalGiving would basically just mean that someone chose either Dehlin's gig specifically through GlobalGIving's website, or more generally through some kind of desired sub-category that fit the bill.

Unless I've completely misinterpreted.

[Calm]

Thanks for taking the time…my eyesight ain’t that great these days (and my brain is offline it seems and I need someone to do my thinking for me), I need to get bifocals because changing between regular and reading is just too much of a hassle.  I didn’t even register that was not Dehlin’s company.  My bad.  Probably should delete it as not relevant to this topic?  

[Dario_M]

Oh my dear Lord. I just can't believe how greedy some people can be.  Really, John Dehlin should have stayed in the church. Maybe then he would have realized that you may not steel and he would have obeyed that commandment. Misusing a system that wasnt meant to be for rich people. But for hard working people who struggles with their finances. And how dare John Dehlin keeps gossiping about how rich the LDS community is. He should take a good look at him self. 

Edited March 5 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Oh my dear Lord. I just can't believe how greedy some people can be.  Really, John Dehlin should have stayed in the church. Maybe then he would have realized that you may not steel and he would have obeyed that commandment. Misusing a system that wasnt meant to be for rich people. But for hard working people who struggles with their finances. And how dare John Dehlin keeps gossiping about how rich the LDS community is. He should take a good look at him self. 

No, the whole PPP loan system was intended for rich people.

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

No, the whole PPP loan system was intended for rich people.

Uhm...no it wasn't. It was intended for people who've lost their job and got into financial problems. 

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Uhm...no it wasn't. It was intended for people who've lost their job and got into financial problems. 

This gets into politics, so not a good place to discuss.  But you can read this below for info on where the money actually went even if it was presented  as or even actually intended for the purpose of saving the paychecks of workers in trouble. (Which it did for many, but a lot more of the money went elsewhere)

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.36.2.55

Edited March 5 by Calm

[Dario_M]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

This gets into politics, so not a good place to discuss.  But you can read this for info on where the money actually went even if it was presented  as or even actually intended saving the paychecks of workers.

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.36.2.55

Dear Calm. I wasn't talking about politics at all. And indeed.... lets's not go into the direction of politics anyway. The board rules are clear to me, very much so. 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

Dear Calm. I wasn't talking about politics at all. And indeed.... lets's not go into the direction of politics anyway. The board rules are clear to me, very much so. 

Dario, in American English “politics” refers to pretty much anything to do with the government.  And since the government handled the PPP loans, I am guessing most on the board would see any discussion of them as politics, including Nemesis.  Perhaps politics has a more narrow definition in the Netherlands.

”the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, especially the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power.”

[Dario_M]

5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Dario, in American English “politics” refers to pretty much anything to do with the government.  And since the government handled the PPP loans, I am guessing most on the board would see any discussion of them as politics, including Nemesis.  Perhaps politics has a more narrow definition in the Netherlands.

Yes for sure. 

But uh... then this whole topic is about politics then. And smac began this political subject in the first place basically. 

 

Edited March 5 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

36 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

And smac began this political subject in the first place basically. 

Yes, this is not a rare occurence.

[Dario_M]

26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, this is not a rare occurence.

🤣

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Yes for sure. 

But uh... then this whole topic is about politics then. And smac began this political subject in the first place basically. 

I am trying to steer clear of "political" topics, but these days a lot of topics have, or can be seen to have, a political dimension.  The topic is about John Dehlin, a private figure and his receipt of government money, and also about whether "any 'pro-Mormon' outfits have sought/received government handouts."  I did not reference any political party or figure.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Dario_M]

13 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I am trying to steer clear of "political" topics, but these days a lot of topics have, or can be seen to have, a political dimension.  The topic is about John Dehlin, a private figure and his receipt of government money, and also about whether "any 'pro-Mormon' outfits have sought/received government handouts."  I did not reference any political party or figure.

Thanks,

-Smac

Well... Some people (like Calm) suggest that i'm practicing a political tone in this topic. While i'm just reacting on your openings post. So i'm like... if the stuff that i've posted here has already such an political vibe (like some suggest) then i find that this whole topic has it. Beginning with the openings post. 

Edited March 5 by Dario_M

[Doctor Steuss]

22 hours ago, Calm said:

Thanks for taking the time…my eyesight ain’t that great these days (and my brain is offline it seems and I need someone to do my thinking for me), I need to get bifocals because changing between regular and reading is just too much of a hassle.  I didn’t even register that was not Dehlin’s company.  My bad.  Probably should delete it as not relevant to this topic?  

You're very welcome.  I'm pretty close to needing bifocals, or reading glasses (and I've got a rascally cataract starting to grow that my optometrist found last appointment).  Getting older is lots of fun.

I think it's still relevant.  If it caused you to question what it was, it likely did the same for someone else.  After you mentioned it, it made me curious enough to go spelunking. 🙂

One thing I did notice when doing the initial search is there are a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of businesses in Utah that use the name Deseret.  Great googely-moogely.  I wonder if there are other common regional business names?  (Actually, I think I'll go do a thread in social, because now I'm curious).

Edited March 5 by Doctor Steuss

[Analytics]

On 3/4/2025 at 12:38 PM, smac97 said:

I wonder if any "pro-Mormon" outfits have sought/received government handouts.  I hope not.

Ensign Peak Advisors receives billions of dollars in government handouts through its tax-exempt status. A tax exemption is a subsidy, and a subsidy is a handout—public funds that the government chooses to forgo in order to support organizations that supposedly serve a societal benefit. Meanwhile, businesses, individuals, and even hedge funds are required to pay taxes that fund the roads, courts, financial systems, and economic stability that make wealth generation possible. When an entity is exempt from this obligation, it is effectively leeching off the public while everyone else pays their fair share.

Despite functioning like a hedge fund, Ensign Peak Advisors hoards massive wealth while paying nothing in taxes. Unlike actual hedge funds, which at least contribute back into the system that enables their success, EPA operates tax-free while still benefiting from the legal and economic structures that government provides. Without public infrastructure, markets, and legal protections, EPA couldn’t generate wealth in the first place—yet it refuses to contribute a cent back. Regardless of legality, tax exemptions exist to support organizations that provide a tangible benefit to society. EPA does not.