The church and undue influence

[Peacefully]

I was just talking to my daughter about this the other night. Her first marriage was  to a member who was, we thought, a recovered addict. Because the law of chastity had been ingrained in her head, chewed up chewing gum and the like, when they broke it, she felt she had to marry to make everything right. I didn’t know this at the time so I find out thirteen years after the fact. Now she carries the burden of having to make the choice to divorce him when he started using again, started stealing from family, and other things. She is a licensed clinical social worker but she couldn’t save him. 
She is married to a wonderful non-member now, and she would not marry him without living with him first. After what she had been through, I could understand why, but she had to let go of the church’s influence and my influence to do what she felt was best for her. 

 

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I was just talking to my daughter about this the other night. Her first marriage was  to a member who was, we thought, a recovered addict. Because the law of chastity had been ingrained in her head, chewed up chewing gum and the like, when they broke it, she felt she had to marry to make everything right. I didn’t know this at the time so I find out thirteen years after the fact. Now she carries the burden of having to make the choice to divorce him when he started using again, started stealing from family, and other things. She is a licensed clinical social worker but she couldn’t save him. 
She is married to a wonderful non-member now, and she would not marry him without living with him first. After what she had been through, I could understand why, but she had to let go of the church’s influence and my influence to do what she felt was best for her. 

 

That is a painful journey to watch your kid go through.  😫

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I was unduly innfluenced to wear a bra on top of a garment top for 20 years.  The ridiculousness of that had an impact on my relationship with wearing garments. I genuinely felt deeply conflicted about the directive I was given and my natural resistance to nonsense created this conflict against my need to follow all of the directions given in the temple.
I do resent being told that this was a must in the temple and it has warped for me my ability to trust directives. I now understand that the only directive I need to follow is what is given to me by God, but I also do not trust myself. So that’s fun.

It sure is freeing I'll tell ya! Meaning that we choose according to our inner most feelings and take it to the Lord if needs be. I do like the bra over top my garment though because I got use to it all these years.

Edited November 22, 2024 by Tacenda

[Frank11]

The church made religion interesting for me and, most importantly, it also offers many opportunities to do good in community life. But of course I only learned one point of view in many of the teachings there.

The church had the biggest influence on my attitude towards people of other faiths. Brad Wilcox put it very well in his famous Alpine Stake Youth Fireside, as I thought at the time:   “What most people in the world are doing, they're playing church. They are sincere, they want it to count. But they don't have the authority. They don't have God's permission.”

I am glad that I no longer think like that and have left it behind me.

My wife's friend is in a modern Christian church. Two years ago she asked me to bless her baby in her church because her friends in the church didn't dare to do it in front of 300 people. For a very brief moment I had that authority thought again from the past, but then a much more insistent thought came to me and it said in this case, “if you are asked for something good, you are called to do it.”  So I blessed the child in this church and am therefore also the child's godfather.

 

[Vanguard]

13 hours ago, Frank11 said:

The church had the biggest influence on my attitude towards people of other faiths. Brad Wilcox put it very well in his famous Alpine Stake Youth Fireside, as I thought at the time:   “What most people in the world are doing, they're playing church. They are sincere, they want it to count. But they don't have the authority. They don't have God's permission.”

I am glad that I no longer think like that and have left it behind me.

I do not care for Bro. Wilcox's characterization of what others are doing in other faiths. Its messge is patronizing and infantilizing. : (

I also like your decision to bless the baby too. Though there is a 'formality function' difference, the most important function is that you were there for them to commemorate a very important occasion and one that will bond you to them/them to you forever. : )

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by Vanguard

[Robert F. Smith]

On 11/21/2024 at 8:38 PM, california boy said:

Well I don't really disagree with you.  My life has ended up just fine without me being a part of the Church.  And I have enough faith in God that he will judge the best place for me in the next life.  And I am perfectly fine and accepting of whatever He decides.

It does make me wonder though, if the mission goal of the Church is to bring people to Christ, shouldn't there be a way for those that are LGBT to participate and still live a full life without having to decide between finding someone to share this life with or the Church?  I grew up on the belief that having a family is a very important part of what God wants us to experience in this life.  To dismiss that key part of our life on earth seems counter to this belief that the goal of the Church is to bring everyone closer to Christ.  It is as if the Church doesn't believe those that are LGBT for some reason don't need the Church.

Churches may have official, published elements of belief, but a church does not itself believe anything.  Moreover, Latter-day Saint theology is neither systematic nor formally orthodox.  The LDS Church is rather the focus of orthopraxy by its diverse membership.   In any case, the LDS Church can never hope to actually bring everyone to Christ, simply because of demographic reality (world population growing much faster than LDS membership).  A millennium is required to do the ordinances for humanity, followed by individual decisions by recipients on the other side.  All Latter-day Saints can do is act as a cadre of priesthood assisting God in bringing all things to completion within His holy temples.  A small but crucial role.

On 11/21/2024 at 8:38 PM, california boy said:

 And pardon for this, but isn't it similar to the idea that black people didn't need the priesthood or temple blessings in this life?  That somehow God will fix things for them as well?

As Yuval Noah Harari points out, human history is replete with stupidity, and Orson Pratt gave Brother Brigham hell for disregarding the plain teachings and practices of Joseph Smith in the matter of race.  Nowadays, we can see a thru-line from Joseph, through Orson, into modern times.

On 11/21/2024 at 8:38 PM, california boy said:

.......................

Yes, the Church does have a lot of power over the choices we make.

Maybe, if we allow it.  What is truly remarkable is how loosely the LDS Church structure and practices allow drift and free choice.  The lack of coercion or dictation of actions.  Even with such laissez faire policies, the LDS Church somehow manages to have the highest attendance levels of any church in America.  And, without any Church auditing of members, the LDS Church has the highest per capita charitable contribution rate in the USA.  Perhaps the lack of stringent and demanding policies is a positive quality.  Too bad the Iranian mullahs have failed to understand that.

[Tony uk]

On 11/21/2024 at 5:43 PM, MustardSeed said:

The church has positively influenced me in the following ways:  I am sure I’m more service minded due to church influence.  I also love that once a week I have a quiet day to reset, focus on priorities, reflect on spiritual matters and slow the heck down. Also, sobriety is a major positive because I’m inclined to unhealthy coping mechanisms under stress. 
The positives are vast, which is why I stay! 
Undue influence:  I’m judgemental and critical of others flaws because ultimately I’m very critical of myself, for fear of not making it to the top.  I don’t see it in the moment but upon reflection I see it clearly. 
I also find myself far too critical of what people wear to church, because I was taught that it’s sinful to take off your dress clothes on Sunday.  I remind myself regularly to stop those thoughts when people wear jeans to pass sacrament etc.  
Undue influence has a part in my tendency to give up power in the world to males.  This influence is born in personal interactions with males in the church who have apparently felt entitled to claim authority where none existed.  In my youth I bought in- I don’t any more but sometimes I have to remind myself of limits to male authority. 
 

 

I must admit, the LDS members that I have come in to contact in my personal, and also through the media. As I mentioned in previous post elsewhere, 'The Osmond's', who I still like and listen to. I have respect and admiration for. This will be I expect down to their family upbringing, and their progression through life with the LDS Church. And that is partly why I joined this Board, so that in my journey in faith can be helped by the people I come into contact here 

[Rain]

Heard an interesting conversation today. Two guys who had been in the military.  One joined the church recently.  He was telling the other guy that church felt comfortable because it was like being in the military - the structure and what it asks of you.

Edited November 30, 2024 by Rain