What year Did Adam come to earth?

[The Nehor]

On 8/1/2024 at 9:31 AM, longview said:

Your deliberate vagueness testify of your silly impish flippant insincerity. I have been detailed and reasoned but you deflect mule-headedly. So sad.

Wrong. Wrong. Agreed.

[The Nehor]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:10 PM, longview said:

It appears you miscomprehend my dissertation on gravitation and the "last step" theory. Which Nehor grandly ignored.

Because it is an irrelevant tangent. You appeal to the unknown so you can deny the known. It is a standard rhetorical trick.

[longview]

20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Because it is an irrelevant tangent. You appeal to the unknown so you can deny the known. It is a standard rhetorical trick.

No. When I explained why your use of "WHY" in theories can lead to the wrong perceptions.

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, longview said:

No. When I explained why your use of "WHY" in theories can lead to the wrong perceptions.

No, it really won’t.

[longview]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, it really won’t.

But you agree that there still will be more theories explaining more aspects of space/time fabric effecting gravitation that we do NOT now know. And each of those theories will explain or measure the "HOW".

[telnetd]

On 8/6/2024 at 5:32 PM, Calm said:

Then there should be no issue with wondering about the origin of the universe.

Do you believe in some big bang and then life emerging and evolving from some primordial liquid?

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, longview said:

But you agree that there still will be more theories explaining more aspects of space/time fabric effecting gravitation that we do NOT now know. And each of those theories will explain or measure the "HOW".

No.

[The Nehor]

54 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Do you believe in some big bang and then life emerging and evolving from some primordial liquid?

Abiogenesis is probably much more complex than that. The big bang was also not really a bang.

[Calm]

On 8/9/2024 at 10:45 AM, telnetd said:

Do you believe in some big bang and then life emerging and evolving from some primordial liquid?

What Nehor said…

I honestly don’t ‘believe’ in the same sense I believe most things.  It is too distant, too obscure and abstract to invest anything but curiosity into it.  I find the ideas surrounding the origins of the universe and the origin of life (two different things) fascinating.  I am also pretty certain we are substantially distant from the ‘answers’ at this time and slowly moving ourselves closer.  Eternal progression in scientific awareness seems to be a necessary part of eternal progression in seeking out and becoming like God with his help.

Edited August 11, 2024 by Calm

[longview]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No.

Oh wow! So there is NO more theories to be developed on gravitation in the future?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

Oh wow! So there is NO more theories to be developed on gravitation in the future?

There potentially are but staring too deeply into the laws and complexities of gravity will awaken the nameless ones from beyond space and time who will come and consume our souls.

[ZealouslyStriving]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

There potentially are but staring too deeply into the laws and complexities of gravity will awaken the nameless ones from beyond space and time who will come and consume our souls.

Azathoth, specifically.

[longview]

7 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Azathoth, specifically.

The master of deflection?

[ZealouslyStriving]

3 minutes ago, longview said:

The master of deflection?

Great great grandfather of Cthulhu.

🐙

[telnetd]

On 8/9/2024 at 2:06 PM, Calm said:

 Eternal progression in scientific awareness seems to be a necessary part of eternal progression in seeking out and becoming like God with his help.

Don't you mean becoming a God?

[telnetd]

On 8/9/2024 at 1:41 PM, The Nehor said:

Abiogenesis is probably much more complex than that. The big bang was also not really a bang.

What what little I know, abiogenesis is the idea that life on Earth began from simple 
chemical compounds that eventually evolved into more complex forms, eventually
leading to the first living organisms.

What it doesn't explain is what those simple chemical compounds were or how they
formed.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, telnetd said:

What what little I know, abiogenesis is the idea that life on Earth began from simple 
chemical compounds that eventually evolved into more complex forms, eventually
leading to the first living organisms.

What it doesn't explain is what those simple chemical compounds were or how they
formed.

Abiogenesis is the process by which non-living matter becomes living matter. It is hard to figure out since we have to extrapolate based on the oldest common ancestors of all living beings so we know what that life is like so can try to figure out how it could have formed.

It is also not reproducible. If the processes were to occur again the proto-life material would be devoured by current life forms. Even if somehow against all odds a new original independent life form were to come into existence it would be quickly consumed. All current life has evolved more sophisticated offensive and defensive attributes that would make a new lifeform easy meat. This is sometimes a thing in hard sci-fi involving other planets. Assuming basic compatibility between lifeforms on various planets life on a lower evolutionary “scale” would be easily “conquered” by lifeforms on Earth. For example if you planted crops there the local weeds would be powerless against our crops. In a higher or longer evolutionary planet introducing them to Earth could potentially destroy our biosphere.

Oh, and the study of abiogenesis does spend a LOT of time coming up with models for how those chemical compounds form.

Edit: Any time someone hints that scientists are avoiding some area as part of some conspiracy of silence be VERY suspicious. Scientific fields have dynamic individuals in them that want to make their mark on the world. This is done by making breakthroughs so they tend to run towards the ill-defined areas to find models and solutions to explain things. When someone tries to imply that scientists are hiding from something in fear you can be pretty sure they are either very misguided or deliberately lying to you.

Edited August 11, 2024 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

On 8/10/2024 at 8:54 AM, longview said:

The master of deflection?

You win that award. Somehow your semantic distinction turned into arguments about how developed the theory of gravity is which somehow relates to whether theories explain why things happen. You definitely earned it.

[Stargazer]

On 8/11/2024 at 5:02 PM, The Nehor said:

Abiogenesis is the process by which non-living matter becomes living matter. It is hard to figure out since we have to extrapolate based on the oldest common ancestors of all living beings so we know what that life is like so can try to figure out how it could have formed.

It is also not reproducible. If the processes were to occur again the proto-life material would be devoured by current life forms. Even if somehow against all odds a new original independent life form were to come into existence it would be quickly consumed. All current life has evolved more sophisticated offensive and defensive attributes that would make a new lifeform easy meat. This is sometimes a thing in hard sci-fi involving other planets. Assuming basic compatibility between lifeforms on various planets life on a lower evolutionary “scale” would be easily “conquered” by lifeforms on Earth. For example if you planted crops there the local weeds would be powerless against our crops. In a higher or longer evolutionary planet introducing them to Earth could potentially destroy our biosphere.

Oh, and the study of abiogenesis does spend a LOT of time coming up with models for how those chemical compounds form.

Edit: Any time someone hints that scientists are avoiding some area as part of some conspiracy of silence be VERY suspicious. Scientific fields have dynamic individuals in them that want to make their mark on the world. This is done by making breakthroughs so they tend to run towards the ill-defined areas to find models and solutions to explain things. When someone tries to imply that scientists are hiding from something in fear you can be pretty sure they are either very misguided or deliberately lying to you.

A most estimable and perspicacious observation! 

Your second paragraph reminded me of Asimov's short story "Green Patches". Which, given its ancient publication date, you might never have heard of. The Wiki link contains a plot synopsis. There's a reference to the concept you bring up in Heinlein's "Starship Troopers," in which there is a planet, called "Sanctuary," settled by humans and its location kept strictly secret to avoid it being potentially destroyed. Its native life is not as advanced as Terran life, and when earth crops and animals are introduced, they just take over as if the native life weren't there. 

Edited August 14, 2024 by Stargazer
sp

[Calm]

4 hours ago, telnetd said:

Don't you mean becoming a God?

I mean what I said. I am not interested in becoming a god (not capitalized because I am not using it as a name), I am interested in becoming like God (one of his names), who is my Father and who did all this for us so we could join him. If in the process that means I become a god, then that’s up to him (and yes, I do believe that is part of the process).

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I mean what I said. I am not interested in becoming a god (not capitalized because I am not using it as a name), I am interested in becoming like God (one of his names), who is my Father and who did all this for us so we could join him. If in the process that means I become a god, then that’s up to him (and yes, I do believe that is part of the process).

From my favorite movie:

 

[longview]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You win that award. Somehow your semantic distinction turned into arguments about how developed the theory of gravity is which somehow relates to whether theories explain why things happen. You definitely earned it.

"WHY" things happen cannot be explained except with logic and formulas. The measurables. Surely you KNOW this is NOT the end of the road.

You refuse to acknowledge that there will continue to be more in-depth theories that delve deeper into the dimensions of space/time. This series of "HOW"s will continue until the ENTIRE mechanics of the universe is completely understood.

Now you turn to Mr. Spock and SCREAM: "deflectors UP" ! ! !

[telnetd]

On 8/11/2024 at 2:47 PM, Calm said:

I mean what I said. I am not interested in becoming a god (not capitalized because I am not using it as a name), I am interested in becoming like God (one of his names), who is my Father and who did all this for us so we could join him. If in the process that means I become a god, then that’s up to him (and yes, I do believe that is part of the process).

Gospel Principles says exalted beings will have "everything that our Heavenly Father 
and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge".

Are you interested in that too?

[telnetd]

On 8/11/2024 at 12:02 PM, The Nehor said:

Abiogenesis is the process by which non-living matter becomes living matter. It is hard to figure out since we have to extrapolate based on the oldest common ancestors of all living beings so we know what that life is like so can try to figure out how it could have formed.

Are there examples of non or less complex non-living matter become living matter today?

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, telnetd said:

Gospel Principles says exalted beings will have "everything that our Heavenly Father 
and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge".

Are you interested in that too?

It is incomprehensible to me.
 

I love the idea of eternally learning.  I am not sure I want an end to that.