Conversion through being struck dead. Why are these stories in the BOM?

[mburgess1982]

Mosiah 27: Alma becomes weak dumb and helpless for 2 days before being redeemed of God

Alma 18-19: Lamoni falls to the earth as if he were dead before being converted

Alma 22: Lamoni's father is struck as if he were dead before being converted

I have always found these stories odd, and wondered why Mormon put them in the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is for our day, why were these included? We don't ever see this type of thing, its not common at all, and very unique, so what can we learn from this and why is it in there? Is there some possible symbolism I am just not seeing, or is it possibly just to show the true redemptive power of Christ as these men were all evil in nature?

Thoughts?

[the narrator]

7 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

Mosiah 27: Alma becomes weak dumb and helpless for 2 days before being redeemed of God

Alma 18-19: Lamoni falls to the earth as if he were dead before being converted

Alma 22: Lamoni's father is struck as if he were dead before being converted

I have always found these stories odd, and wondered why Mormon put them in the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is for our day, why were these included? We don't ever see this type of thing, its not common at all, and very unique, so what can we learn from this and why is it in there? Is there some possible symbolism I am just not seeing, or is it possibly just to show the true redemptive power of Christ as these men were all evil in nature?

Thoughts?

Probably reflecting Joseph's contemporary Christian worship.

[LoudmouthMormon]

51 minutes ago, mburgess1982 said:

If the Book of Mormon is for our day, why were these included? We don't ever see this type of thing, its not common at all, and very unique

I've heard multiple stories of people becoming incredibly religious after almost dying.   Including a personal story from a guy I used to home teach.  I mean, his story involves an ambulance and surgeries and whatnot, but he's convinced to this day it was God sending a wake-up punch to the only place that would have reached him - his mortality. 

The WWII generation and the boomers that followed grew up with the phrase "there are no atheists in foxholes", and you couldn't swing a dead cat in a room full of veterans without hitting a dozen people with stories about such things.   

Such stories might be more rare these days, but they're not unheard of.

[Kevin Christensen]

2 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

Mosiah 27: Alma becomes weak dumb and helpless for 2 days before being redeemed of God

Alma 18-19: Lamoni falls to the earth as if he were dead before being converted

Alma 22: Lamoni's father is struck as if he were dead before being converted

I have always found these stories odd, and wondered why Mormon put them in the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is for our day, why were these included? We don't ever see this type of thing, its not common at all, and very unique, so what can we learn from this and why is it in there? Is there some possible symbolism I am just not seeing, or is it possibly just to show the true redemptive power of Christ as these men were all evil in nature?

Thoughts?

Concerning, "We don't ever see this type of thing," several decades ago, I compared the accounts of Alma's conversion while "nigh unto death" with contemporary Near Death Experience research.  I found that Alma not only fits the pattern of near death experiences in detail, he also demonstrates all of the after-effects that researchers have noted in authentic near death experiencers.  The other accounts of Lamoni, the Queen, and his father, are reported by Alma, not just at random by anyone.   Indeed, most of the detailed teachings of the after-life in the Book of Mormon are provided by Alma, and they happen to be far more detailed than the little on the topic in the Bible.  Some years after I wrote the essay, I attended an IANDS Conference in Salt Lake City in 1999, during which I listened to a range of experiencers, including Howard Storm, whose report, I noticed, is very like Alma's.   Indeed, at several points I noticed how much he thinks and talks like Alma.  I've since read his book, and watched a few videos.  As to my essay, here is the abstract to "Nigh Unto Death:  NDE Research and the Book of Mormon."

Quote

This article suggests that contemporary near-death research casts light on several episodes in the Book of Mormon. Alma’s conversion while “nigh unto death” fits a common pattern of experience. Modern researchers have noticed distinctive aftereffects among those who have experienced a near-death experience (NDE). In the Book of Mormon, both Alma and the resurrected Christ demonstrate these aftereffects. Lehi’s dream invites comparison with the otherworld journey literature of many nations. Nephi’s interpretation of Lehi’s dream casts light on the tension between the literal and the symbolic elements of visionary experience. Finally, just as accurate out-of-body observations made by NDErs argued for the reality of their experiences, so the testable aspects of the Book of Mormon give Joseph Smith a significance apart from others who may have experienced similar visions.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol2/iss1/2/

The Brigham Young Priesthood manual uniquely contains a chapter called "The Spirit World."  Not coincidentally, Brigham's teachings on the afterlife are far more detailed than the Bible, and happen because Brigham apparently temporarily died while at Winter Quarters.  

What makes the Book of Mormon accounts seem "odd" to some is always in relation to the wine bottle one attempts to use to contain them.  Jesus spoke tellingly on the need to have the appropriately new bottle to contain the new wine.

Some years later, LDS Mesoamericanist Mark Wright made some contextual comparisons with Mesoamerican cultural concepts that are very helpful and very detailed.  He mentions my essay along the way.

“According to Their Language, unto Their Understanding”: The Cultural Context of Hierophanies and Theophanies in Latter-day Saint Canon

Quote

Abstract: The prophet Nephi declared that the Lord speaks to his people “according to their language, unto their understanding” (2 Nephi 31:3). Religious beliefs are an integral part of a culture’s shared “language,” and the ways in which individuals interpret supernatural manifestations is typically mediated through their cultural background. The hierophanies recorded in Latter-day Saint canon directly reflect the unique cultural background of the individuals who witnessed them. This paper analyzes several distinct hierophanies witnessed by prophets in both the Old and New Worlds and discusses the cultural context in which such manifestations occur, which aids modern readers in obtaining a greater understanding of the revelatory process recounted in these texts.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1020&context=sba

Feel free to consider whether my model, and Mark Wright's provide a more accurate, testable, detailed, comprehensive and coherent, fruitful, simple, telling and promising explanation than the Burnt Over District behavior offered by the Narrator.

 FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

 

Edited July 1, 2024 by Kevin Christensen
Added Mark Wright's essay title and abstract

[The Nehor]

I know of at least one account from a missionary I know and trust that is sort of similar. The person sort of wanted to believe (and the rest of their family did too) but wanted a stronger and more dramatic witness. They had an unexpected health crisis that put them in a coma for two days and woke up believing it came from God.

[JVW]

I read this article today and it had a very profound quote (relevant part in bold) in it https://www.oneforisrael.org/bible-based-teaching-from-israel/why-is-it-good-to-fear-god/
 

Quote

Anyone who has been born again and crossed over from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of light knows very well this is an upside down kingdom. A. W. Towzer expresses it like this:

“Well, it is not to be wondered at. A real [believer] is an odd number anyway. He feels supreme love for One whom he has never seen, talks familiarly every day to Someone he cannot see, expects to go to heaven on the virtue of Another, empties himself in order to be full, admits he is wrong so he can be declared right, goes down in order to get up, is strongest when he is weakest, richest when he is poorest and happiest when he feels worst. He dies so he can live, forsakes in order to have, gives away so he can keep, sees the invisible, hears the inaudible and knows that which passeth knowledge.”

There is also a nice quote in this article about the baptism of fire https://oneclimbs.com/2023/02/20/have-you-been-baptized-by-fire/ 
 

Quote

President Ezra Taft Benson taught:

“When you choose to follow Christ, you choose to be changed. […] If it hasn’t happened to you—it should. Our Lord told Nicodemus that “except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3.) Of these words President Kimball said, “This is the simple total answer to the weightiest of all questions. … To gain eternal life there must be a rebirth, a transformation.” Besides the physical ordinance of baptism and the laying on of hands, one must be spiritually born again to gain exaltation and eternal life.

Born of God, General Conference October 1985

I'm also reminded of a video on the YouTube channel "After Skool" about Dying Before You Die which examines various ceremonies throughout history where the initiate symbolically dies and is brought back to life. But I don't have access to YouTube on my computer so I can't link it here. We need to die to live. Christ says that only those with a broken heart and contrite spirit can come to Him, one cannot live with a broken heart. The scriptural accounts of people having NDE are very applicable to all. One doesn't need to literally die in order to feel dead and subsequently experience redemption through the Savior.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, mburgess1982 said:

Mosiah 27: Alma becomes weak dumb and helpless for 2 days before being redeemed of God

Alma 18-19: Lamoni falls to the earth as if he were dead before being converted

Alma 22: Lamoni's father is struck as if he were dead before being converted

I have always found these stories odd, and wondered why Mormon put them in the Book of Mormon. If the Book of Mormon is for our day, why were these included? We don't ever see this type of thing, its not common at all, and very unique, so what can we learn from this and why is it in there? Is there some possible symbolism I am just not seeing, or is it possibly just to show the true redemptive power of Christ as these men were all evil in nature?

Thoughts?

We learn that there are many kinds of people who may be very different from us, and God touches them all in their own way. 

[Pyreaux]

The effect of surviving divine glory from Theophanies and Christophanies (a scene in which the deified Christ reveals his self to humans), often puts people in a death-like trance or "visionary" state, with variant durations and ends waking up on their back. 

Joseph Smith

Joseph Smith"s First Vision, "When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home."

Daniel

Daniel received a vision of the glorious Christ, his strength left him. He fell into deep sleep with his face to the ground. However, an angel touched him and told him not to fear (Daniel 10:8–12) “I saw in the night visions... with the clouds of heaven, the “son of man” (Daniel 7:9-14), The man in linen (Daniel 10-12). The unnamed warrior angel of Israel (Daniell 10:2).

Peter, James and John

The transfiguration narrative was Christ's Apotheosis, and a Christophany, a visual revelation of who Jesus really is. Identified by the heavenly voice of God the Father from behind a bright cloud. They fall down until Jesus coaxes them awake.  The account 2 Peter of the transfiguration of Jesus. Peter claims to have been an “eyewitness” to the “majesty” of Jesus.

John the Revelator,

John as a man does not survive his experience. John saw a Temple in heaven, and saw the form of a man standing in the midst of seven golden lamps (the heavenly temple’s Menorah). So, this is the Holy Place, and the man he saw is the High Priest of the heavenly Temple, Jesus Christ. Then the man he sees transfigures (Revelations 1:13-14) and John sees the transfigured glory, it seems comparable to the Glory of the Lord in the past, as John then falls down “as dead” (Revelations 1:17).