Troubling Article Re: Temple in Texas

[Vanguard]

17 hours ago, Peacefully said:

L

Oops, wrong Fairview. I should have known 30 miles wasn’t right because McKinney is further than that. So it is about 70 miles from me. Burleson is 15 and Dallas is 40. Still not bad:) 

Not bad for out of Utah, right?! ; ) I remember thinking the Redlands temple was only about an hour away from the Coachella Valley and that we were now in the lap of luxury! Moving up to the SL valley ~6 years ago, the Oquirrh Mountain Temple was ~25 mins walking distance! Truth is though that I still don't go any more than I used to in Cali... ; )

[The Nehor]

On 6/20/2024 at 11:54 AM, LoudmouthMormon said:

So, as the decades pass, I've been interested in watching my local humans manage their affairs.  HOA boards, town councils, city boards, that sort of thing.  Dues and zoning and building type and density and road improvement and water rights and "look and feel" arguments about how a neighborhood should look.  I've lost track of all the various meetings and events I've attended, where people got together to discuss plans.

Other than my tiny HOA board meetings, every single one of them has folks show up who are opposed to whatever is being proposed.  (And half of my HOA board meetings have opposers too.)

- When the low income housing was going in, folks showed up to complain about crime and drugs and prostitution.
- Every single road improvement project has people opposed to the construction, the noise, the increased traffic that will result. 
- Every new housing development meeting is always brimming with people mad about increased population density, environmental destruction, "losing our way of life".
- The small town that had a business burn down, met to discuss replacing the building.  People showed up mad because it would be used for business.
- Building that school would result in children deaths, because they'd all have to cross a dangerous road.

Here are the recurring themes I've personally witnessed, in 3 different states, across 3 decades of paying attention:
- We don't want "them" around "us".
- I won't be able to enjoy my property like I do now. (Traffic, views, building height, or just the 'ick' factor of having undesirable people around).
- This will ruin the wildlife, the deer or bunnies will all die.
- "We moved here specifically because of the lack of [whatever is being proposed], and now I'll have to live next to it!"
- This will [wreck our home values/boost our home values].  (Yes, no matter what the impact to home values, someone will be mad.)
- We'll run out of water. 
- Bunch of rich developers don't care about us, just the big bucks.
- If there's a disaster, the roads will all be blocked and we won't be able to escape. 
- Power lines/cell towers/gas lines cause cancer/autism/alzheimers.

You will see most of these in the anti-temple playbook, for every temple construction project in the US.  Every time.  It'll either be covered by the media or it won't, but there will always be at least some of it.  (The power line/autism one I've only heard once.)

Yep, going to meetings like this made me understand why the elites of the past despised the idea of democracy. Then I remember that said elites were generally murderous jerks.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yep, going to meetings like this made me understand why the elites of the past despised the idea of democracy. Then I remember that said elites were generally murderous jerks.

Parks and Rec is surprisingly accurate when it comes to depicting public meetings. 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 4:42 PM, Stormin' Mormon said:

Which now makes me wonder how I picked up BANANA [...]

Probably from Gwen Stefani's 2004 hit, "Hollaback Girl."

 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 6:21 PM, california boy said:

Is it worth the battles?  I guess it depends on what goal the Church has in fighting these battles.

Given the number of temples the Church has been building, I suspect it is part of a larger strategy to position themselves to better defend their options in other jurisdictions.

 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 7:23 PM, Calm said:

There are two temples in Texas being built within 50 miles of each other?  Wow! (Fort Worth, Texas temple…so confusing when they don’t use the actual location’s name https://churchofjesuschristtemples.org/fort-worth-texas-temple/ )

It's pretty common for the church to name the temple after a larger, more recognizable city. The Seattle, Washington temple is technically in Bellevue. The DC temple isn't even in Washington - it's in Maryland.

I suspect more people - at least here in the states - would have a rough idea of where Fort Worth is as opposed to Burleson (which is likely only going to be recognizable to locals).

 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:04 PM, Calm said:

Are the neighborhoods pretty similar?  Would you feel comfortable enough to assume difference in reaction is likely the architecture?   Seems unlikely that Fort Worth/Burleson is crammed with LDS and Fairview has a handful.

Burleson is a bigger town with other large buildings, including churches (e.g., Pathway), so I suspect that plays a big part in why it isn't seen as being as much of an outlier. Also, Burleson is less affluent, and that likely also plays a role.

 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 9:37 PM, MrShorty said:

I still don't understand what happened with the UMC (I assume this is United Methodist) starting at 150 feet, but getting redesigned to 50 feet.

They didn't have the money to build it at the time, so they scrapped the plan and ultimately decided to build a smaller, standalone steeple instead. However, the original plan was approved without any issue whatsoever. No green-shirted Pharisees showing up to scrutinize every little thing and try everything in their power to stop it from being constructed. No, their original design was passed without a single complaint.

 

Quote

I'm still not sure why we are being stubborn about this particular temple design, when we have plenty of examples of other temples that would be easier to fit within Fairview's height restrictions.

I'm not sure why we should be expected to tolerate being treated less favorably than other religious groups in the same community.

 

Edited June 21 by Amulek

[The Nehor]

49 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Parks and Rec is surprisingly accurate when it comes to depicting public meetings. 

Yep.

 

[Peacefully]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

It's pretty common for the church to name the temple after a larger, more recognizable city. The Seattle, Washington temple is technically in Bellevue. The DC temple isn't even in Washington - it's in Maryland.

I suspect more people - at least here in the states - would have a rough idea of where Fort Worth is as opposed to Burleson (which is likely only going to be recognizable to locals).

 

But the locals are not amused:) 

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Peacefully said:

But the locals are not amused:) 

Are they not? I haven't heard any complaints about the naming of the Fort Worth temple.

 

[Amulek]

On 6/19/2024 at 8:21 PM, Peacefully said:

When the McKinney temple was first announced it was supposed to be in Prosper Texas. Apparently, the mayor there was for it (per Reddit, lol) so I’m not sure why the location changed. 

Prosper is what the prophet announced in Conference, but the site in Fairview is the only property the Church has ever acquired - hence the name change. 

I suspect they may have been looking at several options initially, but given how things have been growing on this side of town Fairview really does make more sense. 

 

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

Are they not? I haven't heard any complaints about the naming of the Fort Worth temple.

 

I was making an inside joke because we have a very vocal older gentleman in our ward who insists on calling it the Burleson temple, lol. I think it may be catching on because someone else called it that from the pulpit. I also find myself referring to it that way now. Probably just us locals who will use the two interchangeably. I think you are in Texas, right? 

[Amulek]

On 6/18/2024 at 8:06 PM, smac97 said:

Quote

On May 14, a crucial planning vote in Lone Mountain was swarmed by LDS members dressed in navy blue who had answered a call to arms from the church's official Las Vegas Facebook page.

On Tuesday, a meeting in Fairview, a small town in north Texas, drew 2,500 Mormons dressed in white as residents debated plans for a new mega temple.

That is despite church figures showing that only around 70 of the Fairview's 11,000 population are LDS - and these are believed to be overestimates.

The slick hierarchy of the church means its leaders are able to rally its troops at the snap of their fingers, with their flock descending on Fairview from across the region. 

Yeah, overwrought.

To my knowledge, the only people who have been encouraged to attend these public meetings are those who reside within the temple districts themselves - in other words, those in the surrounding communities who have a vested interest in the outcome. It isn't like the Church is bussing in thousands of folks from Salt Lake City. 

[Amulek]

10 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I was making an inside joke because we have a very vocal older gentleman in our ward who insists on calling it the Burleson temple, lol. I think it may be catching on because someone else called it that from the pulpit. I also find myself referring to it that way now. Probably just us locals who will use the two interchangeably.

Lol. Okay, that makes sense now. 

 

10 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I think you are in Texas, right? 

Yeah, I live in the McKinney temple district. I'm very familiar with the goings on over here.

[Thinking]

Since the angel Moroni seems to be a thing of the past, it could be replaced with a cross. That might fix everything. 😁

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

To my knowledge, the only people who have been encouraged to attend these public meetings are those who reside within the temple districts themselves - in other words, those in the surrounding communities who have a vested interest in the outcome. It isn't like the Church is bussing in thousands of folks from Salt Lake City. 

The letter sent out encouraged people to attend even if they did not live in the boundaries of the Mckinney Temple district. It invited everyone in the three councils in the region.

I think this was a bad PR move honestly. This looks like bullying a local government with a bunch of outsiders.

[Peacefully]

6 hours ago, Amulek said:

Lol. Okay, that makes sense now. 

 

Yeah, I live in the McKinney temple district. I'm very familiar with the goings on over here.

My company has an office in McKinney so I’ve been there a few times but not as familiar with that area as I am with the Ft. Worth area where I was born and have lived a majority of my life (the 10 years I didn’t live in Arlington or Ft. Worth, I was only 60 miles away, lol) . 

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

The letter sent out encouraged people to attend even if they did not live in the boundaries of the Mckinney Temple district. It invited everyone in the three councils in the region.

I think this was a bad PR move honestly. This looks like bullying a local government with a bunch of outsiders.

I also think it was presented almost as if we were being persecuted and all needed to show up and stop the meanies. 

[The Nehor]

23 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I also think it was presented almost as if we were being persecuted and all needed to show up and stop the meanies. 

That doesn’t come through in the emails from the Area Presidency that I have. It was more a ‘there are more opposers writing letters and showing up at meetings’ and calling for local leaders to change that balance.

[Peacefully]

46 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That doesn’t come through in the emails from the Area Presidency that I have. It was more a ‘there are more opposers writing letters and showing up at meetings’ and calling for local leaders to change that balance.

I agree, the letter didn’t sound like that, it was the counselor in the Bishopric who was tearfully reading the letter that gave me that impression. 

[The Nehor]

Just now, Peacefully said:

I agree, the letter didn’t sound like that, it was the counselor in the Bishopric who was tearfully reading the letter that gave me that impression. 

Okay, that is a bit excessive.

And tearfully? What? Also gonna say that would be awkward.

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Okay, that is a bit excessive.

And tearfully? What? Also gonna say that would be awkward.

It was, especially when I found out more info about the situation. 

[Amulek]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The letter sent out encouraged people to attend even if they did not live in the boundaries of the Mckinney Temple district. It invited everyone in the three councils in the region.

Sorry, maybe I should have said 'local region' instead of temple district - though everyone I know who actually attended was, in fact, from the area. I mean, there was that one guy from England who came to speak against it, but most of the 2,500 who came out to support it were from McKinney, Allen, Fairview, etc.

 

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think this was a bad PR move honestly. This looks like bullying a local government with a bunch of outsiders.

I suppose how it looks is in the eye of the beholder. And it's not like there isn't any outside influence being brought to bear in opposition. Personally, I think the show of support is a net positive. YMMV.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Sorry, maybe I should have said 'local region' instead of temple district - though everyone I know who actually attended was, in fact, from the area. I mean, there was that one guy from England who came to speak against it, but most of the 2,500 who came out to support it were from McKinney, Allen, Fairview, etc.

 

I suppose how it looks is in the eye of the beholder. And it's not like there isn't any outside influence being brought to bear in opposition. Personally, I think the show of support is a net positive. YMMV.

This is one of those things that is hard to predict. If there is local news coverage it could backfire or help. Really depends on what spin is put on it.