new Oxford Annotated Book of Mormon

[Kenngo1969]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:24 PM, caspianrex said:

Well, I also saw that Grant Hardy said September on his Facebook page, so maybe it's September after all. I guess, if it arrives in July (shortly after my birthday), I'll be pleasantly surprised!

Happy, Happy Birthday, Cory Dear!

Happy days'll come to you all year!

If I had a wish* then it would be

A Happy, Happy Birthday to You from Ken G.!

Happy Birthday to you!  Happy Birthday to you!

Happy Birthday dear Cory!  Happy Birthday to you!

*And, why, yes, indeed, I do have just such a wish!

[JustAnAustralian]

12 hours ago, caspianrex said:

Ouch! That is a little pricey in Australia, isn't it? $39.95 in America is pretty standard for a work of this kind, but $82 is around the price one pays for a premium leatherbound Bible.

 

Including shipping I can get it for ~51USD direct from OUP or ~54USD from amazon. So it's not a huge difference between the two, but it's definitely a case of it would nice if I didn't have to deal with the pacific ocean.

[caspianrex]

Just got a shipping update from Amazon, and The Annotated Book of Mormon should be arriving by this Saturday!

Looking forward to receiving it, and seeing how the finished work turned out.

[JustAnAustralian]

You'll have to keep us updated so I can see if I need to treat myself to an early Christmas present.

[caspianrex]

All right! My copy of The Annotated Book of Mormon arrived last night. I haven't had the chance to really dig into it deeply yet, but I do have a few preliminary thoughts to share, as well as a few pictures of the book.

First, I think this book is ideal for readers like myself, someone who is not a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but who is interested in The Book of Mormon as a religious work of great importance. Grant Hardy's excellent Introduction makes his position as an active member quite clear, but he also is clearly striving for an academic, literary approach to the text. It is clear that the publisher, Oxford University Press, is approaching the layout and design of the book as it would any major religious text, be it the Bible, the Qur'an, or the Tao Te Ching. 

I am very pleased with the amount of material at the end of the book, after the actual Book of Mormon text. Hardy provides general essays on topics such as The Transmission and Language of the Text, The Book of Mormon and the Bible (I'm very interested in this one), and Book of Mormon Theology.Maps and Charts in the end material look very helpful for any reader (member or non-member) who is interested in Book of Mormon geography, or the various major family lines mentioned in the text. There is also a chart of biblical quotations, allusions and verbal parallels between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, which Hardy says in his Introduction is the most complete chart of its kind to date.

Overall, the layout is quite similar to annotated Bibles published by OUP. It bears a remarkable similarity to OUP's Jewish Annotated New Testament, edited by Amy-Jill Levine and Mark Zvi Brettler. In the photos I took of the book (linked below), I have included one pic that shows The Annotated Book of Mormon and The Jewish Annotated New Testament side-by-side.

I hope to share more thoughts on the book once I've had a chance to delve into it a bit more deeply. If anyone else has acquired the book, I'd love to hear their thoughts as well.

ANNOTATED BOOK OF MORMON PHOTOS

[JustAnAustralian]

Thanks for the photos. It looks like something I might take the plunge with and buy. Also, I may end up getting OT and NT versions too if I ever decide which version to buy.

[mfbukowski]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:17 PM, Kenngo1969 said:

@Hamilton Porter This has, perhaps, more relevance to your other thread, but when I clicked on the link to go to Amazon's page for The Annotated Book of Mormon, I found this, which I think is molto interessante.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00P8FQ286/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?

But that's not the HISTORICAL version in reality,it is simply the text.

And we Mormons want HISTORY and forget about what the words say.  I mean words are just parables for the actual language.

I mean it is all figurative anyway, right? 

 

[mfbukowski]

On 8/12/2023 at 1:04 PM, caspianrex said:

 

Oh my.

A little too racy for me- seeing the REAL THING like that, just displayed on the internet for everyone to see!

Edited August 14, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Kevin Christensen]

I've got a review copy.  It is very impressive overall, a nice effort, for which Hardy is to be commended.  The supplementary essays on a range of key topics and approaches are all very informative, and it will be a valuable resource.  That said, I do have some quibbles here and there.  He does not address at all Ethan Sproat's "Skins as Garments" approach, but rather refers to "offensive racism" that is for some reason, contradicted later in the Book of Mormon.  Indeed, the key passage in Sproat's essay, Alma 3:5-6, breaks across a page in the Annotated Book of Mormon.  Here is Sproat.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol24/iss1/7/

Hardy refers to the mark in Jacob 4:15 as derived from archery language, a conclusion Paul Hoskisson had reached in an essay that looked intensively at 19th century usage of "mark", but somehow overlooked Ezekiel 9:4, which refers to the mark of the anointed high priest with the Name, with Ezekiel and Jacob being contemporary priests in exile.  And Hardy dismissed Barker as "controversial" (unlike, say, Joseph Smith or Jesus), and decides that her approach doesn't merit consideration because "Nephite authors, with their emphasis on Moses, prophets, fulfilled prophecies, obedience to commandments, blessings and curses, and covenant obligations, take a basically Deuteronomistic approach to history. This is perhaps most clearly evident in their frequent invocation of God’s promise to Lehi that “inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence” (2 Ne 1.20, with nineteen additional citations).”  (Grant Hardy, The Annotated Book of Mormon, 763-764).  That is true, but there is more to Deuteronomy and the Reform, and the relationship of Lehi and Jeremiah to the goings on to consider that he, quite frankly, simply does not address anywhere in his 900 page book.

He says this:

Quote

“Some LDS writers, drawing on controversial theories of biblical scholar Margaret Barker, have suggested that the Book of Mormon includes traces of anti-Deuteronomistic ideology, but this hypothesis runs counter to the ethos of the Book of Mormon as a whole.” (Hardy, 764)
 

Which leaves this, sort of thing, which deals with many aspects of the Book of Mormon and Deuteronomy ethos as a whole, and addresses them in detail and at length, from many different voices. 

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/twenty-years-after-paradigms-regained-part-1-the-ongoing-plain-and-precious-significance-of-margaret-barkers-scholarship-for-latter-day-saint-studies/

He does list my contribution to Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem, on Barker, but other than that, he is dismissive without detail.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited August 31, 2023 by Kevin Christensen
typo

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

But that's not the HISTORICAL version in reality,it is simply the text.

And we Mormons want HISTORY and forget about what the words say.  I mean words are just parables for the actual language.

I mean it is all figurative anyway, right? 

 

Man, you are swift!  I posted the back in February, and, finally, you get around to responding today!

[JustAnAustralian]

As we approach starting the BoM in come follow me this year, how is everyone finding their copy of this book?

I'm still yet to hit the buy button (the pacific ocean really adds to the cost), so I want to make sure it will be a helpful item for discussions etc, without missing anything particularly vital.

Aside from your quibbles @Kevin Christensen, do you think this would be a particularly useful resource for a lifelong member like me who would be interested in sparking discussions in Sunday School? I'm not sure some of the class (including the teacher) would be comfortable if I took Faulconer's Book of Mormon made harder route.

[Nevo]

15 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

As we approach starting the BoM in come follow me this year, how is everyone finding their copy of this book?

I was really impressed by the 12 essays in the back. They're outstanding. I haven't dug deeply into the notes yet, but I'm sure they're excellent too. Hardy is an exceptional reader, but I especially value his judgment. For me, it's a plus that he doesn't cite Ethan Sproat or promote Margaret Barker's theories. His discussion of Early Modern English on pages 753–754 is the best I've seen. 

Most of the maps and charts are the same as in the Maxwell Institute version. Unlike the Maxwell Institute version, however, this book uses the public domain 1920 text because "the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints prefers that its current 2013 scriptural text (a slight adjustment of the 1981 edition) be published with the Church's own formatting."

@caspianrex liked the layout of the book. I am not a fan. A lot of the font choices (starting with the cover!) are not to my taste at all. Unlike The New Oxford Annotated Bible, which was designed by 2K/Denmark and printed by Royal Jongbloed, with line-matched type and a sewn binding, this book was designed by an in-house designer, printed in the US by Sheridan Books, is not line matched, and has a glued binding. And unlike the The New Oxford Annotated Bible, it does not lie flat. Also, in my copy, the printing is blurry through most of 2 Nephi. However, the paper is quite thick and opaque, so there's virtually no ghosting. You could probably write marginal notes and highlight with little or no bleed-through.

This is a great study edition of the Book of Mormon, but don't expect it to hold up to heavy use.

 

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, Nevo said:

Unlike The New Oxford Annotated Bible

Is that this one? https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/0190276088/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=A3JCEYBC5L8UJ8&psc=1  this has been sitting in my cart for the pacific ocean reason too.

[Nevo]

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Is that this one? https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/0190276088/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_4?smid=A3JCEYBC5L8UJ8&psc=1  this has been sitting in my cart for the pacific ocean reason too.

That's the one. That price is unbelievable 😯

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Nevo said:

That's the one. That price is unbelievable 😯

Good unbelievable or bad unbelievable?

[Stargazer]

This book is available on Amazon in the UK in hardcover for just £30.99, with the Kindle version only £16.78. I'd count that a pretty reasonable. I am strongly tempted to get it.

ETA: Just ordered it.

Edited January 2, 2024 by Stargazer

[Kevin Christensen]

On 1/1/2024 at 9:10 PM, JustAnAustralian said:

As we approach starting the BoM in come follow me this year, how is everyone finding their copy of this book?

I'm still yet to hit the buy button (the pacific ocean really adds to the cost), so I want to make sure it will be a helpful item for discussions etc, without missing anything particularly vital.

Aside from your quibbles @Kevin Christensen, do you think this would be a particularly useful resource for a lifelong member like me who would be interested in sparking discussions in Sunday School? I'm not sure some of the class (including the teacher) would be comfortable if I took Faulconer's Book of Mormon made harder route.

It is a very useful book.  However, it should not be the only book.  It provides a significant achievement, and also due to his stated intent to contextualize the Book of Mormon in light of “the generally agreed upon findings of modern biblical scholars and historians” the book inevitably invites further discussion on points in which the Book of Mormon challenges those findings.  I have a forthcoming Interpreter review that intends to show where Hardy succeeds in his intentions and to point to ways in which Latter-day Saint readers can faithfully enter further discussions.   One could imagine a discussion of the New Testament based on the position that "Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on him?"  So I like and admire the book, but I also have a lot to say about his approaches to race and the curse, geography, Isaiah, 3 Nephi and the Sermon at the Temple, anachronism, Margaret Barker, and such.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited January 9, 2024 by Kevin Christensen

[Stargazer]

Having just received my copy of this book a couple of days ago (and just downloaded the Kindle version today) I am very much enjoying it.

[JustAnAustralian]

I've taken the wallet hit and have ordered both the BoM and Bible versions.  BoM is coming from Amazon US, and Bible is coming from Amazon UK.  I'll report back when they turn up in a few weeks.

[Stargazer]

On 1/7/2024 at 6:03 AM, JustAnAustralian said:

I've taken the wallet hit and have ordered both the BoM and Bible versions.  BoM is coming from Amazon US, and Bible is coming from Amazon UK.  I'll report back when they turn up in a few weeks.

The Kindle versions are substantially less expensive.

But of course I usually buy both for some reason...

[Tacenda]

On 1/1/2024 at 7:10 PM, JustAnAustralian said:

As we approach starting the BoM in come follow me this year, how is everyone finding their copy of this book?

I'm still yet to hit the buy button (the pacific ocean really adds to the cost), so I want to make sure it will be a helpful item for discussions etc, without missing anything particularly vital.

Aside from your quibbles @Kevin Christensen, do you think this would be a particularly useful resource for a lifelong member like me who would be interested in sparking discussions in Sunday School? I'm not sure some of the class (including the teacher) would be comfortable if I took Faulconer's Book of Mormon made harder route.

With the money the church has, no member should have to shell out money for this. Or am I misunderstanding. 

[awyatt]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

With the money the church has, no member should have to shell out money for this. Or am I misunderstanding. 

You are misunderstanding.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, awyatt said:

You are misunderstanding.

Soooo help me. 

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

With the money the church has, no member should have to shell out money for this. Or am I misunderstanding. 

The books aren’t produced by the Church, but by publishers who do this for a living.

Oxford University Publishers has no connection with the Church, they publish academic and professional books.

https://global.oup.com/academic/search?q=Book+of+Mormon&cc=us&lang=en

The Bible book they are referring to is not LDS related at all.

Edited January 9, 2024 by Calm

[Tacenda]

45 minutes ago, Calm said:

The books aren’t produced by the Church, but by publishers who do this for a living.

Oxford University Publishers has no connection with the Church, they publish academic and professional books.

https://global.oup.com/academic/search?q=Book+of+Mormon&cc=us&lang=en

The Bible book they are referring to is not LDS related at all.

Oh, thank you! I was unsure, maybe I need to be at church more.