John the Baptist priesthood ordination

[Durangout]

John the Baptist was ordained to the priesthood at 8 days old by an angel D&C 84:28.  No one had been resurrected yet so it had to be someone translated.  Ok, so who might it have been?  Melchezdec? Elijah?

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

John the Baptist was ordained to the priesthood at 8 days old by an angel D&C 84:28.  No one had been resurrected yet so it had to be someone translated.  Ok, so who might it have been?  Melchezdec? Elijah?

I don't think that's referring to him being ordained to the priesthood (he held the Aaronic priesthood, which is by lineage).  It's referring to him being ordained to a calling, "to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power." (Doctrine and Covenants 84:28) 

If I were to guess, that would be Elijah, since John came with the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17)

Edit to add:   My conjecture that this ordination was done by Elijah is strengthened by this quote from John A Widtsoe: 

Quote

More is known about the nature of the mission of Elias. In a revelation to the Prophet, in August, 1830, it is stated that the Lord has committed to Elias "the keys of bringing to pass the restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began, concerning the last days." (D. & C. 27:6) In the same revelation it is stated that the angel who visited Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, promised "that he should have a son, and his name should be John, and he should be filled with the spirit of Elias." (D. & C. 26:7; see also, Luke 1:17) Now, it has been made clear from a later revelation that the mission of John was "to prepare them [the Jews and others] for the coming of the Lord." (D. & C. 84:28; see also, Luke 1:5-17; John 1:19-28) It is concluded from this and other passages (D. & C. 77:9, 14) that the mission and spirit of the prophet Elias are to do the necessary preparatory work whenever the gospel dispensation or period is about to be opened. This is in full accord with the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith that "The spirit of Elias is to prepare the way for a greater revelation of God, which is the Priesthood of Elias, or the Priesthood that Aaron was ordained unto. And when God sends a man into the world to prepare for a greater work, holding the keys of the power of Elias, it was called the doctrine of Elias. . . ." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 335, 336)

John A. Widtsoe, Evidences and Reconciliations, p.243 - p.244

 

Edited January 9, 2023 by InCognitus

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I don't think that's referring to him being ordained to the priesthood (he held the Aaronic priesthood, which is by lineage).  It's referring to him being ordained to a calling, "to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power." (Doctrine and Covenants 84:28) 

If I were to guess, that would be Elijah, since John came with the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17)

Edit to add:   My conjecture that this ordination was done by Elijah is strengthened by this quote from John A Widtsoe: 

 

You might be correct; I suppose the weak alternative would be Gabriel. He heralded John's birth, named him, I supposed he might have returned at the time of John's circumcision to relieve Zacharias who he had struck dumb. Maybe he also stuck around to ordain John for his mission without laying on hands since, the Aaronic priesthood was already his by birthright. But it seems like to give power of Elijah's namesake would come from someone post-Elijah. Though Noah did "walk with God" like the translated Enoch did. A stretch, I know.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Pyreaux

[CV75]

10 hours ago, InCognitus said:

I don't think that's referring to him being ordained to the priesthood (he held the Aaronic priesthood, which is by lineage).  It's referring to him being ordained to a calling, "to overthrow the kingdom of the Jews, and to make straight the way of the Lord before the face of his people, to prepare them for the coming of the Lord, in whose hand is given all power." (Doctrine and Covenants 84:28) 

If I were to guess, that would be Elijah, since John came with the spirit and power of Elijah (Luke 1:17)

Edit to add:   My conjecture that this ordination was done by Elijah is strengthened by this quote from John A Widtsoe: 

 

What I find interesting is that "Elias" ("Elijah") performs both a preparatory and a restorative function. Elias (churchofjesuschrist.org)

The Abrahamic promise is forward-looking (the fathers prepare the future seed that will bless the earth, and this promise was restored*); the keys that Elijah restored are past-looking (the eventual latter-day seed, having this promise planted in them, turn to the fathers and seal all of them into the continuing chain of fathers/seeds).

* from the above link: "(4) A man called Elias apparently lived in mortality in the days of Abraham, who committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple on April 3, 1836 (D&C 110:12). We have no specific information as to the details of his mortal life or ministry."

The combined restoration of the forward-looking Abrahamic promise and the past-looking generational sealing keys, with their junction in the marriage covenant and the children born therein, brings to my mind the imagery of a a very powerful whirlpool turbine that generates limitless power ("eternal round").

[Pyreaux]

2 hours ago, CV75 said:

What I find interesting is that "Elias" ("Elijah") performs both a preparatory and a restorative function. Elias (churchofjesuschrist.org)

The Abrahamic promise is forward-looking (the fathers prepare the future seed that will bless the earth, and this promise was restored*); the keys that Elijah restored are past-looking (the eventual latter-day seed, having this promise planted in them, turn to the fathers and seal all of them into the continuing chain of fathers/seeds).

* from the above link: "(4) A man called Elias apparently lived in mortality in the days of Abraham, who committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland (Ohio) Temple on April 3, 1836 (D&C 110:12). We have no specific information as to the details of his mortal life or ministry."

The combined restoration of the forward-looking Abrahamic promise and the past-looking generational sealing keys, with their junction in the marriage covenant and the children born therein, brings to my mind the imagery of a a very powerful whirlpool turbine that generates limitless power ("eternal round").

Aye, Elias may not be a name of one individual, but a title that designates assorted "forerunners". And one of the theories of Elias' identity includes Noah. In fact, Joseph Fielding Smith lays out this argument, "Joseph Smith revealed that Gabriel was Noah; Luke declared that it was the angel Gabriel who appeared to Zacharias and Mary; and the Lord has declared that Elias appeared to Zacharias and Joseph Smith. Therefore, Elias is Noah” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions 3:141).

His basis is D&C 27:6-7; "John the son of Zacharias, which Zacharias he (Elias) visited and gave promise that he should have a son, and his name should be John, and he should be filled with the spirit of Elias;" Maybe Gabriel is a better contender than I thought.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Pyreaux

[Dario_M]

I am happy that i still not have received the Priesthood power. 

So much resposebility's. Don't wanna do that. Not yet at least. 

[mfbukowski]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:52 AM, Dario_M said:

I am happy that i still not have received the Priesthood power. 

So much resposebility's. Don't wanna do that. Not yet at least. 

As an Aaronic priest the only responsibilities you would have is to help bless and pass the sacrament.

You could try that, I would recommend it, and then if you want to advance it would be up to you 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

As an Aaronic priest the only responsibilities you would have is to help bless and pass the sacrament.

You could try that, I would recommend it, and then if you want to advance it would be up to you 

Also to be a minister to a couple of families with a companion though…

Edited January 14, 2023 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

25 minutes ago, Calm said:

Also to be a minister to a couple of families with a companion though…

At first he would be mostly an observer or send out cards etc.

Virtually nothing if nothing is what he wanted to do.  He would be placed with senior companion.

That would be a local decision; it's exactly what "keys" are for

Anyway, it's as much as he wants to do, nothing to worry about his level of "responsibility".

Edited January 14, 2023 by mfbukowski

[Dario_M]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

As an Aaronic priest the only responsibilities you would have is to help bless and pass the sacrament.

You could try that, I would recommend it, and then if you want to advance it would be up to you 

But that is allready a responsibility. And i need to walk through the whole church and give everyone bread and water. I am not a waitress... come on.

And uhm..i thought that i also heard that temple work whas included as a duty when you are an Aaronic Priest. That means that i need to go to the temple (and the closest one is far away). Not to injoy my time there. But to baptize people that have past. ✝️

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dario_M

[gav]

6 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

But that is allready a responsibility. And i need to walk treu the whole church and give everyone bread and water. I am not a weightress... come on.

And uhm..i thought that i also heard that temple work whas included when you are an Aaronic Priest. That means i need to go to the temple (and the closest one is far away). Not to injoy my time there. But to baptize people that have past. ✝️

Did Jesus come to serve or be served? He that is greatest in the kingdom and what not...

We come to know Jesus by doing the things that he did and would do if he were here today.

Edited January 14, 2023 by gav

[Dario_M]

53 minutes ago, gav said:

Did Jesus come to serve or be served? He that is greatest in the kingdom and what not...

What has that to do with me? I am having a shitlood of problems in my life. Family problems (i have spend this new year alone, in a park.) My sister hates me while i did everything for her in the past. But now i am the one that needs help she is nowhere to be found. My ex hates me also (after 9 years of relationship). No idea why. My parents judge me about that. I have lost my house in the Netherlands with 2 garden 2 toilets 5 rooms a livingroom (because my parents wanted to move to Portugal so badly)(and i get why...but still). I have lost al my friends. And i have lost my health. I am sick all the time. Dizzy, short out of breath. I can't see well anymore. Really tired. My stomach is always bloated. And some other things but that is gross to tell you so i don't. 

I am really tired.

You just ask me did Jesus come to serve or be served? Well.. what i can tell you is that on this moment i am the one that's wanna be served. I just can't do it. Serve other people the way that my church wants me too. I am just to tired. I receive the priesterhood when it is the right time. And this is not the right time.

And as for the endowment i don't wanna receive that one at all. 

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dario_M

[Dario_M]

59 minutes ago, gav said:

 

We come to know Jesus by doing the things that he did and would do if he were here today.

Well.. i am not Jesus. So you can not expect me to be like him. Yes offcourse i do my personal best. To be the best person i can be. But it needs to be practical also. If i am doing the priesterhood and need to serve the church with water and bread but i feel dead tired how useful do you think i am? Or on a really bad sunday when i think about my sister my ex and my friends (who i have lost in the same week as well because they all get mad on me) ( believe it or not, bad things happen all togheter). Do you think on a momemt like that that i just can give bread and water to everyone with a smille as if i am doing really great. I can't. 

And for the church to add more pressure on me makes me cry even more. You think i am useful on such a moment?? To be a priest like that? You think it is useful to cry while i try to serve other people?? No! It is embarrassing. I know it is embarrassing because i allready have run out from the church some sunday ago because i could't fight my tears. And thank god.✝️ Thank GOD that i didn't had the priesterhood on that moment and needed to serve people.

And i am one of those people that rather wanna cry alone. Not in front of a whole church community that expect from you to be happy all the time. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Dario_M

[gav]

1 hour ago, Dario_M said:

Well.. i am not Jesus. So you can not expect me to be like him. Yes offcourse i do my personal best. To be the best person i can be. But it needs to be practical also. If i am doing the priesterhood and need to serve the church with water and bread but i feel dead tired how useful do you think i am? Or on a really bad sunday when i think about my sister my ex and my friends (who i have lost in the same week as well because they all get mad on me) ( believe it or not, bad things happen all togheter). Do you think on a momemt like that that i just can give bread and water to everyone with a smille as if i am doing really great. I can't. 

And for the church to add more pressure on me makes me cry even more. You think i am useful on such a moment?? To be a priest like that? You think it is useful to cry while i try to serve other people?? No! It is embarrassing. I know it is embarrassing because i allready have run out from the church some sunday ago because i could't fight my tears. And thank god.✝️ Thank GOD that i didn't had the priesterhood on that moment and needed to serve people.

And i am one of those people that rather wanna cry alone. Not in front of a whole church community that expect from you to be happy all the time. 

You sure have some challenges and I agree it needs to be practical. The Lord does not ask us to run faster than we can, so only when you feel ready, but when you do get a chance, try helping someone who needs some help, you might find your own problems look a little smaller as you do that.

That is the power of serving others.

It makes our own problems seem smaller when we see how big some other peoples problems are. That is why Jesus said we find our life by losing it. MATTHEW 10:39

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, gav said:

makes our own problems seem smaller when we see how big some other peoples problems are.

It is not only that though.  Anything we deal with constantly tends to assume a bigger presence in our thoughts, increasing its importance and its impact on our lives.  By shifting our thoughts to something else, to someone else for a time, this may help us achieve a better balance and our problems that have been consuming so much of our lives become less overwhelming, though not likely to disappear.  But we may feel more in control of our own lives by helping someone else with theirs and that sense of control may help us find new ways to work with our problems and control them.

[Dario_M]

2 hours ago, gav said:

You sure have some challenges and I agree it needs to be practical. The Lord does not ask us to run faster than we can, so only when you feel ready, but when you do get a chance, try helping someone who needs some help, you might find your own problems look a little smaller as you do that.

We will see. I was planning to receive the priesterhood in the end of April. 

2 hours ago, gav said:

That is the power of serving others.

Yeah. I don' t feel any power. We will see tomorrow when i am going to church. 

2 hours ago, gav said:

It makes our own problems seem smaller when we see how big some other peoples problems are. That is why Jesus said we find our life by losing it. MATTHEW 10:39

Normaly i would agree with that. But since i have lost my health my energie and joyment in life i am not so sure about that. 🎭😩 💀