Church joins interfaith coalition letter supporting LGBTQ rights in Florida

[provoman]

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

When whatever becomes the modern gestapo point guns at temple sealers and make them perform gay sealings in the temple you are more than welcome to say, “I told you so.”

Until then I don’t see people saying mean things about the church as being that big of a threat. No one is forcing our clergy to perform straight sealings either. If we get to the point that sealings are being compelled we are so far gone that appearing conciliatory won’t be helpful at all.

Be careful of the allies that you select to defend your traditional family values (the ones the came from Europe a few centuries back I presume). Many of them would gladly destroy you.

It is a real conundrum isn't it? Destroyed by rabid anti-Christs that present themselves as the moral authority for rising generations, or as you seem to suggest be destroyed by religious fundementalist.

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:48 AM, Jakob42 said:

On 11/21/2022 at 6:33 PM, Eschaton said:

A strong majority of the country (71%) supports same sex marriage rights. The "very small minority" that is upset appears to be the few who oppose same sex marriage rights. 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/393197/same-sex-marriage-support-inches-new-high.aspx

I disagree.  Polls are crafted to give the desired results of the group who is paying for them.  I have never met anyone who thought gar marriage was a popular idea, except by gays who represent less than 10% of the population.  

Oh man - it's like going back to the late '90's!   Hi @Jakob42, good to meet a member of the vanishing breed.

Yeah, I hate to tell you, but you're going to be in the minority of folks who refuse to believe that we can tell what America thinks, by asking a random sampling of Americans.  I totally get how wise it is to 'follow the money', but places like Gallup make their money by being relevant and accurate.  And Gallup says America 'switched sides' 11 years ago:

So yes, most if not all surveys have a bias, even ones that try real hard to not have one.  But basically ALL the surveys show this same trend, whether Gallup is doing the polling or some other entity:

 

So in your opinion, because everyone you know thinks like you, then the majority of the country must think like you, and polls (or collections of polls) must all be corrupt biased lies funded by deviants.  Ok, we all get opinions.  But it would be helpful if you could, maybe, provide some evidence in favor of your opinion.  I mean, if you think everyone thinks like you, it's not like this vast hidden majority can't fund it's own poll and refute the data above.  Would you agree?

I mean, I'm sure 'regular America', or even 'traditional values America' has done some of their own polling.  You should have no trouble at all finding and showing us those polls.  

I'm looking forward to hearing your evidence.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[LoudmouthMormon]

[dup]

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Oh man - it's like going back to the late '90's!   Hi @Jakob42, good to meet a member of the vanishing breed.

Yeah, I hate to tell you, but you're going to be in the minority of folks who refuse to believe that we can tell what America thinks, by asking a random sampling of Americans.  I totally get how wise it is to 'follow the money', but places like Gallup make their money by being relevant and accurate.  And Gallup says America 'switched sides' 11 years ago:

So yes, most if not all surveys have a bias, even ones that try real hard to not have one.  But basically ALL the surveys show this same trend, whether Gallup is doing the polling or some other entity:

 

So in your opinion, because everyone you know thinks like you, then the majority of the country must think like you, and polls (or collections of polls) must all be corrupt biased lies funded by deviants.  Ok, we all get opinions.  But it would be helpful if you could, maybe, provide some evidence in favor of your opinion.  I mean, if you think everyone thinks like you, it's not like this vast hidden majority can't fund it's own poll and refute the data above.  Would you agree?

I mean, I'm sure 'regular America', or even 'traditional values America' has done some of their own polling.  You should have no trouble at all finding and showing us those polls.  

I'm looking forward to hearing your evidence.

 

It is worth noting that polls actually overrepresent the elderly since they are phone polls. I stopped answering phone calls from numbers I don’t recognize years ago and people younger than me have never answered them. I know people who don’t answer phone calls from people they do know under the rationale of “Just text me like a normal person you weirdo!” You left a voice message? Why? What is this? The 90s?

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, provoman said:

It is a real conundrum isn't it? Destroyed by rabid anti-Christs that present themselves as the moral authority for rising generations, or as you seem to suggest be destroyed by religious fundementalist.

No just religious fundamentalists. Authoritarian weirdos that mouth family values while not valuing them at all except in how they can be weaponized.

I favor one side because I think their authoritarian streak would be more tolerable but it is the Shiz vs. Coriantumr thing. Does it really matter which side you are on?

 

[Tacenda]

On 11/18/2022 at 9:35 AM, Jakob42 said:

As you wish amigo.  I'm not a Mormon.  What they do or don't do does not affect me.  I am not a joiner nor am I a follower.   I do not sign on to any religious sect's social requirements.  But... I am surprised to hear even their Prophet has gone left.   Imagine the state of Utah going woke.  Wow....  

If you're anti-woke, what do you believe?

Woke: 

woke

/wōk/

 

verb

1. past of wake¹.

    

adjective

INFORMAL•US

 

1. alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

   "we need to stay angry, and stay woke"

[Scott Lloyd]

Deleted because it was posted in the wrong thread. 
 

I’ll repost it in the right one. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

20 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If you're anti-woke, what do you believe?

Woke: 

woke

/wōk/

 

verb

1. past of wake¹.

    

adjective

INFORMAL•US

 

1. alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

   "we need to stay angry, and stay woke"

Source?

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Source?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/woke

the first one was difficult to link, it was from google. But both the same really.

Edited November 28, 2022 by Tacenda

[Scott Lloyd]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/woke

the first one was difficult to link, it was from google. But both the same really.

Here’s an alternative definition, from Merriam-Webster, which, in my opinion, is more reflective of what the expression has evolved to mean in more recent times:

disapproving : politically liberal (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Here’s an alternative definition, from Merriam-Webster, which, in my opinion, is more reflective of what the expression has evolved to mean in more recent times:

disapproving : politically liberal (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme

And yet most of the examples they provide seem to imply this usage is quite a biased interpretation, a label used to ridicule and dismiss those they disagree with.

Quote

The national conservatives view today’s liberals as woke cultural warriors who pose an existential threat to the nation and its traditions. Shadi Hamid

He’s built a social media brand on the right railing against "woke liberals" and supporting former President Donald Trump. Marissa Martinez

The military is struggling to find new recruits to fill its ranks. … While the official reasons given by the military—including fewer face-to-face recruitments during the pandemic, and fewer young people who meet the physical standards required—likely play a role, some say it’s because the military is too "woke," turning off its normal constituency of young, conservative recruits. Suzanne Bates

If there is any hope, it’s that voters are rejecting woke green goals. Already this has occurred in Sweden and Italy, where voters threw out left-wing governments … Michael Shellenberger

'Woke capitalism' tends to be a term that critics use to refer to … portfolios that are built around environmental, social and governance issues like climate change or diversity. Victor Reklaitis

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke

Edited November 28, 2022 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

And yet most of the examples they provide seem to imply this usage is quite a biased interpretation, a label used to ridicule and dismiss those they disagree with.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke

Since, in the first place, the expression as originally coined was ideologically biased in the extreme, a usage that ridicules such extremism is apt, imo. 

[Calm]

never mind…not in the mood

Edited November 28, 2022 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

never mind…not in the mood

I suspect you quickly came to the realization that, like most arguments over semantics, this one is not worth the time or energy to pursue. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I suspect you quickly came to the realization that, like most arguments over semantics, this one is not worth the time or energy to pursue. 

You would be wrong.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

You would be wrong.

Shrug 🤷‍♂️ 

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Here’s an alternative definition, from Merriam-Webster, which, in my opinion, is more reflective of what the expression has evolved to mean in more recent times:

disapproving : politically liberal (as in matters of racial and social justice) especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme

It hasn’t evolved to mean that. It is the standard thing where a word becomes a mild slur. And, as usual, the people who did use the word “woke” unironically stopped a long time ago. Woke is just another coded buzzword that means “things I don’t like” so it can mean all things to all people. It is like what happened with the word “liberal”.

Edited November 29, 2022 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Since, in the first place, the expression as originally coined was ideologically biased in the extreme, a usage that ridicules such extremism is apt, imo. 

Ideologically biased in what way? And by whom?

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Ideologically biased in what way? And by whom?

Nah. Not in the mood. 
 

But kudos for correctly using the object form of the preposition. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Nah. Not in the mood. 

Figured you wouldn’t be. No one ever is. Funny that.

Almost as if it would be embarrassing or impossible to describe. It can be all things to all people. A lot of people use it to just mean anti-racist for example. Since being racist is bad they always have a hard time describing it so they back off. It doesn’t mean that to everyone but this mushy weakly defined verbiage encourages racists and bigots because they hear what they want to hear in the word and can describe what they oppose as “woke” and everyone hears whatever their private bogeyman is in the word.

It is like someone decided to one-up the verbiage in “1984” and made up a word that means both Eurasia and Eastasia so they don’t have to change the newspapers and slogans when the war target changes. Everyone is convinced they are fighting the enemy they hate the most since the word they use to describe the enemy is nebulous and contains all potential enemies.

[Tacenda]

23 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Figured you wouldn’t be. No one ever is. Funny that.

Almost as if it would be embarrassing or impossible to describe. It can be all things to all people. A lot of people use it to just mean anti-racist for example. Since being racist is bad they always have a hard time describing it so they back off. It doesn’t mean that to everyone but this mushy weakly defined verbiage encourages racists and bigots because they hear what they want to hear in the word and can describe what they oppose as “woke” and everyone hears whatever their private bogeyman is in the word.

It is like someone decided to one-up the verbiage in “1984” and made up a word that means both Eurasia and Eastasia so they don’t have to change the newspapers and slogans when the war target changes. Everyone is convinced they are fighting the enemy they hate the most since the word they use to describe the enemy is nebulous and contains all potential enemies.

👍