Caffeine

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

To be fair, green tea can have problems with drinking it too, usually tied with the high caffeine levels, though lower that coffee and black tea. And many of the benefits are ones found with just following the WoW dietary suggestions (a largely plant based diet with more emphasis on seasonal and whole foods) without said side effects. I think there's this weird trend in our society to prop up one drink or food as some sort of health wonder, when really it's the aggregate diet that makes the biggest difference. 

 

With luv,

BD

 

Your probably right, and I can't stand drinking it.

[Stargazer]

15 hours ago, Rivers said:

Agreed.  I tried non-alcoholic beer once.  I was told it tasted like the real thing.  Didn’t like it.  

Actually, it doesn't. The alcohol enhances the flavor and makes it at least slightly more palatable. My experience isn't very broad, because I joined the Church before I reached the legal age for drinking alcohol in the US (I was 14). But my parents were social drinkers, and so I have some experience with various alcoholic beverages through my secret explorations of their liquor cabinet and wine closet (actually it was a refrigerator they kept outside in the back yard). My mom taught me how to make her favorite drink, the Salty Dog, and so I was also her personal bartender. Uncles used to come by for jawboning sessions and they'd let me sample their beers. American beers, at least the big commercial ones, are not as good as European ones -- or so my beer-drinking compatriots in the Army told me.

Gosh this reminds me of conversations we used to have in my Elders quorum presidency. We'd discuss the merits of the various German beers (that we hadn't actually drank) that we had seen our fellow soldiers and airmen drink while we were stationed in Germany. All three of us were veterans, and goody two-shoes Mormons who never drank. Ah, those were the days!

[Stargazer]

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Just as you may be ranting, this may be nit-picky.

Nit-picking is just good conversation!

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I’ve never thought of “spirit of the law” as necessarily a gateway to pharisaism.

Oh, not at all. But the Pharisees use "spirit of the law" in order to impose their interpretations of the law on others.

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Usually when I think spirit of the law I’m think more what is the purpose or general principle behind the law and how may it apply to me.

Absolutely agree!

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

When I think of pharisaism I think more rigid interpretations that may often come from common assumptions and get out of hand. 
For example, my mother is one of those who over interprets tea to be anything with the word tea in it. Fruit tea, herbal tea it’s all the same to her. I could hand her a peppermint leaf, she would taste it, and then I would put said leaf in hot water and she would all the sudden hesitate or refuse it. Her hesitation isn’t based on a deep and personal exploration of the WoW. It’s a derivative of her culture and family traditions that had been particularly rigid. She has no reasoning behind it. Just an assumption that tea means tea and therefore she shouldn’t. 

Which is why I mentioned the use of the word "tea" in the British Isles, and how it made me refuse a dinner invitation out of ignorance.

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

my mom likewise doesn’t drink caffeinated drinks. Again, this is not from some “spirit of the law” moment where she was nudged to do it via spiritual promptings and/or careful study. It’s because it was suggested in the 90’s and that recommendation became law that should be done. That is pharisaical to me. I also don’t drink caffeinated sodas.

I used to categorically avoid caffeinated drinks because the family that brought me into the church did so, too. And because ward socials definitely excluded them. It seemed like "settled law" by implication, but when it was suggested in the 90's that caffeinated drinks were against the spirit of the Wow and should be avoided, it caused me to rethink it. If it's "against the spirit", then it's not "settled law" after all. In other words, it's more of a guideline than a rule, to quote Captain Barbossa. My thoughts along this line led to the conclusions about caffeine I was ranting about earlier. 

My late wife maintained the no-caffeine rule to the end of her life, as her personal choice, but she never tried to enforce it with me. I avoided drinking Pepsi (my fave) in her presence, as a courtesy. 

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Technically I barely drink any soda (basically none, if you don’t count the martinelli cut with soda water that I have around Xmas). Not because I feel I have to, but because my personal introspection and study has led me to avoid sodas and too much processed sugars in general.

I love bubbly water! My wife, on the other hand, does not. She prefers not to have her tongue tickled by those happy bubbles of CO2. But she will drink flavored soda. I don't understand this, but whatever. 

Do you know the origin of the ice cream sundae? It's because of the bubbles, at least that's the story in Illinois. A long time ago, bubbly water was thought to be mildly intoxicating along the lines of alcohol. And the soda parlors of the time would make ice cream sodas ("floats" as we would call them) with the bubbly water. However, in Illinois sales of soda were prohibited on Sunday, and this would extend to those bubbly ice cream floats, too. But the parlors didn't want to lose out on those sales, so they created what they called a "sundae" (pronounced the same as the day), which was the ice cream and the various other flavorings, but without the soda.

At least, that's the story I heard.

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I still have a caffeinated tea that I drink when I need help with mild migraines or am at risk of getting one as I can’t take regular over the counter migraine pills (they make me dizzy/nauseous). I don’t expect everyone to be like me on this. And I don’t get the sweats if someone hands me some store-bought chocolate cake (ate a tiny bit this weekend). It just as a general principle I believe the WoW is about caring for one’s body with the best sources of food available and to avoid substances that can have a detrimental/controlling effect on us to receive the blessing of greater health and wisdom. People may like soda and processed sugar, but I haven’t met anyone crazy enough to state it’s inherently good for us. 

Well, water with dissolved carbon dioxide is just as hydrating as plain water, as far as I'm aware, so I'd say that bubbly water is just as good for us as unbubbly water. We don't digest the carbon dioxide. We merely burp it back out. No harm, no foul. Well, maybe foul, but definitely no harm!

6 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

For the record I’m not a fan of pharisaical thought. It makes rules for rules sake with little meaning behind it. It increases rigidity and reduces both introspection and inspection as to the why for what a person does. I do think there’s value in “spirit of the law” processing as i defined it. 

Yes, there is value in the "spirit of the law". It becomes Pharisaic when the person who has made the rule for him- or her-self starts imposing it on others. Your mother's practice with regard to "tea" isn't what I would call phariseeism; it's just how she preferred to obey the commandment, and she was completely justified, even if I think she was taking it beyond the mark. Another example would be Joseph Fielding Smith, who, as I understand it, became a vegetarian during his life. But he never tried to make others follow his rules. 

 

 

 

[BlueDreams]

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Nit-picking is just good conversation!

Oh, not at all. But the Pharisees use "spirit of the law" in order to impose their interpretations of the law on others.

I wonder about that. I googled it and was surprise by this summary about the pharisees: 

Quote

Rather than blindly follow the letter of the Law even if it conflicted with reason or conscience, the Pharisees harmonized the teachings of the Torah with their own ideas or found their own ideas suggested or implied in it. They interpreted the Law according to its spirit. When in the course of time a law had been outgrown or superseded by changing conditions, they gave it a new and more-acceptable meaning, seeking scriptural support for their actions through a ramified system of hermeneutics. It was because of this progressive tendency of the Pharisees that their interpretation of the Torah continued to develop and has remained a living force in Judaism.

 

I was surprised that just how much I would generally agree with this idea, minus some key points. Namely that it was needed to interpret old law than have authority to guide via new prophets. And the part a little later on that reduced the necessity of the temple in the pursuit for this more flexible religious methodology. Which gave them popularity as it democratized and decalcified the jewish practice that gave a ton of power to the temple priests.    

I don't know if this was my definition of what I picture it to mean pharisaic though. I think I pictured more rigidity that struggles to incorporate changes or more deeply study and understand what is believed beyond commonly accepted custom. Which I guess could be that...but in some way the Pharissees were already pushing against previous custom to reclaim power in interpreting and deciding religious importance. But that just changed the hands of temporal power in deciding the community, definitely not the shifts that Christ would then indicate as the fulfillment of the law rather than its eternal reinterpretation.  

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Absolutely agree!

Which is why I mentioned the use of the word "tea" in the British Isles, and how it made me refuse a dinner invitation out of ignorance.

I used to categorically avoid caffeinated drinks because the family that brought me into the church did so, too. And because ward socials definitely excluded them. It seemed like "settled law" by implication, but when it was suggested in the 90's that caffeinated drinks were against the spirit of the Wow and should be avoided, it caused me to rethink it. If it's "against the spirit", then it's not "settled law" after all. In other words, it's more of a guideline than a rule, to quote Captain Barbossa. My thoughts along this line led to the conclusions about caffeine I was ranting about earlier. 

My late wife maintained the no-caffeine rule to the end of her life, as her personal choice, but she never tried to enforce it with me. I avoided drinking Pepsi (my fave) in her presence, as a courtesy. 

Interesting. I was too young to really remember this. So what I had was by then more the traditions of my mother (step-father lived off of caffeinated soda, I swear) than a solid memory of listening to talks around this. The ones I remember that were utilizing the WoW to describe stuff not fully written out in the WoW was about misusing prescription meds. World had moved and there were bigger fish to fry than too much pepsi. 

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I love bubbly water! My wife, on the other hand, does not. She prefers not to have her tongue tickled by those happy bubbles of CO2. But she will drink flavored soda. I don't understand this, but whatever. 

Do you know the origin of the ice cream sundae? It's because of the bubbles, at least that's the story in Illinois. A long time ago, bubbly water was thought to be mildly intoxicating along the lines of alcohol. And the soda parlors of the time would make ice cream sodas ("floats" as we would call them) with the bubbly water. However, in Illinois sales of soda were prohibited on Sunday, and this would extend to those bubbly ice cream floats, too. But the parlors didn't want to lose out on those sales, so they created what they called a "sundae" (pronounced the same as the day), which was the ice cream and the various other flavorings, but without the soda.

At least, that's the story I heard.

Well, water with dissolved carbon dioxide is just as hydrating as plain water, as far as I'm aware, so I'd say that bubbly water is just as good for us as unbubbly water. We don't digest the carbon dioxide. We merely burp it back out. No harm, no foul. Well, maybe foul, but definitely no harm!

Soda water is only tasty to me if I have something in it. One of my faves is adding fresh lime and spearmint. But I can't handle more than a tiny amount of sugary anything at this point as I eat so little of it that it tastes a little toxic and makes me feel weird if I over indulge. Ice cream included.  

 

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Yes, there is value in the "spirit of the law". It becomes Pharisaic when the person who has made the rule for him- or her-self starts imposing it on others. Your mother's practice with regard to "tea" isn't what I would call phariseeism; it's just how she preferred to obey the commandment, and she was completely justified, even if I think she was taking it beyond the mark. Another example would be Joseph Fielding Smith, who, as I understand it, became a vegetarian during his life. But he never tried to make others follow his rules. 

Ehh, she flirted with it. At least when it came to sharing her opinion with her kids. She was none to pleased when I started buying tea as a teen....it was on a list of things she found questionable or concerning about my beliefs or practices. From wearing a thin strapped shirt around the house, to evolution, to caffeine, to tea, to vegetarianism. It's not that she forbade me to believe or do something. it's more that she would get upset and try to dissuade me with something from a religious authority and/or assumptions about what religious authorities say about an issue...although on the vegetarian thing it was more that she convinced herself it was a phase and that every sign of illness from me was because I was one. I think she assumed you couldn't be healthy without meat. 

I don't hold it against her. She's got some quarks that make it hard for her when people make decisions she wouldn't. And somewhat like you, her understanding of the faith came from a family (hers though) that tended to subtly assert their opinion and view of things as actually just the truth of the matter. So when she got back into church, it's that image of church she tried to reflect. 

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited September 2, 2022 by BlueDreams

[Rain]

9 hours ago, Jim Dandy said:

I have diabetic concerns, primarily for my wife, and we carry packets of sugar free Crystal Light with us in my wife's purse for when we go out.  A woman's purse is a marvelous thing.  Better than a backpack in some situations.  But I digressed.  My usual favorite is lemonade but I also like the Raspberry, or the cherry.  Just pour a packet in a glass of water, then stir.  Restaurants are marvelous places.  You just ask someone at a restaurant for some food or a drink and they'll bring it out to you,  Waiters and waitresses are such marvelous people.

I've not been much into those. After drinking them my mouth would taste kind of...glomy.  Now that I have been drinking water primarily for more than a decade Crystal Light tastes chemical to me and my favorite drink is water. I crave it.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Rain

[Calm]

I hate crystal light and pretty much anything added. Just like fruit cubes, fruit frozen and used as ice cubes…though for some it works best if puréed first. Overripe, but not fermenting kiwi are great though.   But not like you can take that stuff to the restaurant. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Calm