Question about Temple Marriage and civil divorce

[Gomezaddams 51]

Back in 1973 I was married in the Salt Lake Temple.  I won't go into the details but after 18 years I had to get out of the marriage, and I got a civil divorce from my wife.  There was no cheating or adultery or anything like that.  I remarried in 2010 and my second wife joined the church a couple of years later.  So, can I get a temple marriage to my second wife?  IF I die and by some cosmic cataclysm, I end up where I can have my wife with me, will I be stuck with my first wife or can I choose to go with my second wife?    I already spend 18 years in hell with the first one, I would like to spend eternity in heaven with my second wife.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

Talk to your bishop. He can help you apply for a sealing clearance. No one will be stuck in a bad situation. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Kenngo1969]

I'm sorry to hear of the problems you had with your first wife, and I'm glad that you are in a better situation with your second one.  (My father experienced something similar.)  I've heard it said that there is nothing better in life than a good marriage—and nothing worse than a bad one.  (As a long-term bachelor in a family Church, Alas!, while I am fortunate to not know the truth of the second half of that statement, nor do I know the truth of the first.  Perhaps someday ... )  Even in cases in which no divorce or sealing cancellation occurs, each party, and both together, must live up to the covenants they made and the ordinance must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise for it to remain valid for eternity.

No, God is merciful.  He will not force you to spend eternity with the person who, taking what you say as true for the purposes of this discussion, caused you such heartache, pain, and so forth.  I don't know how God will mend the gnarled messes that we humans tend to make of our family trees, but I do have faith that He will.

You may find some comfort in this song by Cherie Call:

I wish you well.

Warm Regards and Best Wishes,

-Kenngo1969

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, Gomezaddams 51 said:

Back in 1973 I was married in the Salt Lake Temple.  I won't go into the details but after 18 years I had to get out of the marriage, and I got a civil divorce from my wife.  There was no cheating or adultery or anything like that.  I remarried in 2010 and my second wife joined the church a couple of years later.  So, can I get a temple marriage to my second wife?  IF I die and by some cosmic cataclysm, I end up where I can have my wife with me, will I be stuck with my first wife or can I choose to go with my second wife?    I already spend 18 years in hell with the first one, I would like to spend eternity in heaven with my second wife.

 

You can do what you want, that's why they call it heaven. 😇

[Stargazer]

9 hours ago, Gomezaddams 51 said:

Back in 1973 I was married in the Salt Lake Temple.  I won't go into the details but after 18 years I had to get out of the marriage, and I got a civil divorce from my wife.  There was no cheating or adultery or anything like that.  I remarried in 2010 and my second wife joined the church a couple of years later.  So, can I get a temple marriage to my second wife?  IF I die and by some cosmic cataclysm, I end up where I can have my wife with me, will I be stuck with my first wife or can I choose to go with my second wife?    I already spend 18 years in hell with the first one, I would like to spend eternity in heaven with my second wife.

 

As has been said by another, all you need to be sealed to your current wife is a "sealing clearance." This is normally a routine matter, and based on what you have said, there should be no problem getting it. If your first wife ever wanted to be sealed to another man, she would need to get a "sealing cancellation," which is more involved, but also not particularly difficult, all things being equal.

I've been married three times. Every time to a member of the church, but the first and current marriages were not in the temple. The first because she was not at all ready for the temple, and has not been since. I did love her, and some of that love still remains -- but living with her was tortuous. She isn't a bad person, but she is quite messed up emotionally, something which I thought I could fix, but obviously couldn't. She's the one who demanded a divorce, not me. My second wife and I were sealed in the Swiss temple and though we had our differences we made it to 35 years before she passed away from cancer. I was going to stay single after that, but she told me that I needed to remarry after she was gone because she didn't think I would do well as a bachelor. I believe she was correct, actually. So I did remarry, but only civilly since my current wife was sealed to her late husband so we're going to be together only for this life. I'd like to steal her from her late husband, as she is a wonderful woman and being with her is a constant joy, but how can I steal her from my brother? Not my choice anyway!

But no, God is not going to force you to be with your first wife, regardless of whether that sealing was cancelled or not. All such things must also be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, and will the Spirit force you to be with someone whom you can't stand? Of course not.

In my particular case, my first wife had a terrible upbringing, and I don't think her issues were caused by her choice. Although I wouldn't want to deal with her in mortality, I suspect she may be a different person in eternity. And as I commented to you in the other thread, I am sure God will deal with her justly and mercifully, and with love. 

[Calm]

He may want to get a sealing cancellation himself if he doesn’t want to have on record he is sealed, though divorced to his first wife.

[edvantageous]

I would be interested to understand other informed personal opinions or doctrinal teachings about the process of the sealing by the holy spirit of promise. I don't believe it comes as an immediate, automatic next step following the initial marriage sealing ordinance (could happen that way for some, I suppose, but I get the feeling it's more a future event following the rigors of keeping those covenants throughout a lifetime). Is it meant to happen in this mortal life while both partners are still living, something to strive for as a couple? Or do you think it's an event in the next life after we have a fuller understanding of our eternal natures and what we want to experience in future realms?

[Durangout]

Yes.

No.

Yes.

[Stargazer]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:33 PM, Calm said:

He may want to get a sealing cancellation himself if he doesn’t want to have on record he is sealed, though divorced to his first wife.

The membership record doesn't indicate anything other than there is a prior spousal sealing. No name appears. FWIW.

Lots of us fossils have been widows sealed to deceased spouses, and It would be unremarkable in the case of a man as old as he is.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

On 8/25/2022 at 9:21 PM, edvantageous said:

I would be interested to understand other informed personal opinions or doctrinal teachings about the process of the sealing by the holy spirit of promise. I don't believe it comes as an immediate, automatic next step following the initial marriage sealing ordinance (could happen that way for some, I suppose, but I get the feeling it's more a future event following the rigors of keeping those covenants throughout a lifetime). Is it meant to happen in this mortal life while both partners are still living, something to strive for as a couple? Or do you think it's an event in the next life after we have a fuller understanding of our eternal natures and what we want to experience in future realms?

I started out thinking that this was some kind of separate step that occurs later at some undesignated time, probably after death and before resurrection, at the final concurrence of the Holy Spirit. But before I wrote this down, I got to thinking that I might be wrong (gasp!). I did a search on the church website and found this article: 

“Is it true that before a temple marriage is eternalized it must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise? Who may seal it?”

In this article it says that "Every sealing bears his promise that we will receive the blessings if we do our part and keep our covenants with him; otherwise, we won’t."

Read the entire article for best effect. It turns out that it is not some future confirmatory act, but something that is with us from the start, until we have broken our covenant. I suppose that sometimes a covenant can be repaired by repentance, but sometimes repentance cannot repair it, and even if we are forgiven, we have lost something irretrievably.

As an example of that, take King David. He broke his covenant of marriage, murdered a man to possess his wife, and though he would be forgiven eventually, he permanently lost all of his wives:

DC 132:39 David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.

I would say that the OP's temple sealing to his prior wife is already broken. A sealing cancellation is only an administrative action taken by the church. In the eternal accounting, it's already cancelled.

 

 

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

The membership record doesn't indicate anything other than there is a prior spousal sealing. No name appears. FWIW.

Lots of us fossils have been widows sealed to deceased spouses, and It would be unremarkable in the case of a man as old as he is.

I am talking about family history records and more about personal knowledge a sealing is on paper at least intact, not about what others know except for his current wife. I have the experience of having an abusive jerk for an ex brother-in-law, who gloatingly whispered to my sister as they left the lawyers after mediation “you are still mine in the eternities”.  I don’t believe that is true at all, God isn’t going to allow celestial marriage to be used as a weapon; but in conversations with plenty of women they are concerned that is true in part because the temple work is still in place.  I assume some men may feel the same way. It is a burden. I wonder if the refusal to grant my sister a sealing cancellation contributed in part to her loss of faith (there were other issues, not putting it all on that or the Church). I am pretty certain a refusal would not happen now. 
 

The poster sounds like he cares that there might be a chance he ends up still sealed to his first wife in the eternities. A clearance allows him to remarry, but does not address the issue of the first wife. Only a cancellation does that. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Calm

[Stargazer]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am talking about family history records and more about personal knowledge a sealing is on paper at least intact, not about what others know except for his current wife. I have the experience of having an abusive jerk for an ex brother-in-law, who gloatingly whispered to my sister as they left the lawyers after mediation “you are still mine in the eternities”.  I don’t believe that is true at all, God isn’t going to allow celestial marriage to be used as a weapon; but in conversations with plenty of women they are concerned that is true in part because the temple work is still in place.  I assume some men may feel the same way. It is a burden. I wonder if the refusal to grant my sister a sealing cancellation contributed in part to her loss of faith (there were other issues, not putting it all on that or the Church). I am pretty certain a refusal would not happen now. 
 

The poster sounds like he cares that there might be a chance he ends up still sealed to his first wife in the eternities. A clearance allows him to remarry, but does not address the issue of the first wife. Only a cancellation does that. 

Your ex-BIL sounds like someone should knock him somewhere into next week. 

And I agree that a cancellation clears it up quite nicely.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Your ex-BIL sounds like someone should knock him somewhere into next week. 

And I agree that a cancellation clears it up quite nicely.

That was minor compared to what else he did, but yeah, it is hard not to want to be part of some significant retribution there. 

[rodheadlee]

On 8/25/2022 at 6:47 AM, Tacenda said:

You can do what you want, that's why they call it heaven. 😇

😀

[Kenngo1969]

On 8/25/2022 at 2:21 PM, edvantageous said:

I would be interested to understand other informed personal opinions or doctrinal teachings about the process of the sealing by the holy spirit of promise. ... [Emphasis in original].

I don't know a lot about the Second Anointing (if you're wondering about that, it is alluded to, obliquely, in the Endowment), but perhaps, in at least some cases, that is when the initial ordinances received are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.  I did find this:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/holy-spirit-of-promise?lang=eng