Nauvoo Polygamy Children (pre-martydom)

[webbles]

I've been trying to find a list of all of the children that were born to polygamous couples before Joseph died.  But unfortunately, all of my searches only find the list of Joseph Smith's possible children or the lists of polygamous couples.

So, I went through a list of possible pre-martydom polygamy (about 25 men) and used FamilySearch to find out the birth dates of any children born or conceived before Joseph died.  Here's what I've found:

Born before the martydom:

• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peak - Adelbert Henry Kimball (birth date: 1842)
• Joseph Bates Noble & Sarah B. Alley - George Omner Noble (birth date: Feb 2, 1844) 
• William Clayton & Margaret Noon - Daniel Albert Clayton (birth date: Feb 18, 1844)

Born after the martydom but conceived before the martydom:

• Lorenzo Dow Young & Harriet Page Wheeler - John Brigham Young (birth date: Sep 5, 1844)
• Benjamin Mitchell & Lovina Buckwalter - Joseph Smith Mitchell (birth date: Oct 28, 1844)
• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peake - Henry Kimball (birth date: 1844)
• William Felshaw & Charlotte Walters - Catherine Felshaw (birth date: Jan 25, 1845)
• Theodore Turley & Mary Clift - Ephraim Turley (birth dat: Feb 11, 1845)

 

Does anyone know of other research that has been done on determining the number of children born to polygamous wives before the martydom?

[Calm]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I've been trying to find a list of all of the children that were born to polygamous couples before Joseph died.  But unfortunately, all of my searches only find the list of Joseph Smith's possible children or the lists of polygamous couples.

So, I went through a list of possible pre-martydom polygamy (about 25 men) and used FamilySearch to find out the birth dates of any children born or conceived before Joseph died.  Here's what I've found:

Born before the martydom:

• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peak - Adelbert Henry Kimball (birth date: 1842)
• Joseph Bates Noble & Sarah B. Alley - George Omner Noble (birth date: Feb 2, 1844) 
• William Clayton & Margaret Noon - Daniel Albert Clayton (birth date: Feb 18, 1844)

Born after the martydom but conceived before the martydom:

• Lorenzo Dow Young & Harriet Page Wheeler - John Brigham Young (birth date: Sep 5, 1844)
• Benjamin Mitchell & Lovina Buckwalter - Joseph Smith Mitchell (birth date: Oct 28, 1844)
• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peake - Henry Kimball (birth date: 1844)
• William Felshaw & Charlotte Walters - Catherine Felshaw (birth date: Jan 25, 1845)
• Theodore Turley & Mary Clift - Ephraim Turley (birth dat: Feb 11, 1845)

 

Does anyone know of other research that has been done on determining the number of children born to polygamous wives before the martydom?

You might write Brian Hales to see if he knows.

[Bob Crockett]

22 hours ago, webbles said:

I've been trying to find a list of all of the children that were born to polygamous couples before Joseph died.  But unfortunately, all of my searches only find the list of Joseph Smith's possible children or the lists of polygamous couples.

So, I went through a list of possible pre-martydom polygamy (about 25 men) and used FamilySearch to find out the birth dates of any children born or conceived before Joseph died.  Here's what I've found:

Born before the martydom:

• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peak - Adelbert Henry Kimball (birth date: 1842)
• Joseph Bates Noble & Sarah B. Alley - George Omner Noble (birth date: Feb 2, 1844) 
• William Clayton & Margaret Noon - Daniel Albert Clayton (birth date: Feb 18, 1844)

Born after the martydom but conceived before the martydom:

• Lorenzo Dow Young & Harriet Page Wheeler - John Brigham Young (birth date: Sep 5, 1844)
• Benjamin Mitchell & Lovina Buckwalter - Joseph Smith Mitchell (birth date: Oct 28, 1844)
• Heber C. Kimball & Sarah Perry Peake - Henry Kimball (birth date: 1844)
• William Felshaw & Charlotte Walters - Catherine Felshaw (birth date: Jan 25, 1845)
• Theodore Turley & Mary Clift - Ephraim Turley (birth dat: Feb 11, 1845)

 

Does anyone know of other research that has been done on determining the number of children born to polygamous wives before the martydom?

Interesting.  Now do one on post-Manifesto marriages and births.

[webbles]

5 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Interesting.  Now do one on post-Manifesto marriages and births.

I would have thought that had already been done.  It has a lot more marriages and births.  Also, are you including births to polygamous couples who entered polygamy before the manifesto?  Or just births to those who enter polygamy after the manifesto?  Looking at my own family line, there were 4 post-manifesto marriages and 25 children were born to those marriages.  But if you look at the other wives (who were pre-manifesto), there were at least 36 more children born post-manifesto.

[Nevo]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:44 AM, webbles said:

Does anyone know of other research that has been done on determining the number of children born to polygamous wives before the martydom?

Gary Bergera has identified the three you mentioned, as well as a fourth: Lucina Cahoon, b. 1843, daughter of Reynolds Cahoon and Lucina Roberts Johnson. See Gary James Bergera, "Identifying the Earliest Mormon Polygamists, 1841-44," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 38, no. 3 (2005): 50.

[mrmarklin]

Sorry, but who cares about this?  
 

It’s mildly interesting, but really, don’t you have something better to do with your time?

[Tacenda]

Found the following on a reddit post, I had no idea. I wonder if JS did have birth control methods. This is from D. Michael Quinn's book Early Mormonism and the Magic World View. 

[webbles]

3 hours ago, Nevo said:

Gary Bergera has identified the three you mentioned, as well as a fourth: Lucina Cahoon, b. 1843, daughter of Reynolds Cahoon and Lucina Roberts Johnson. See Gary James Bergera, "Identifying the Earliest Mormon Polygamists, 1841-44," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 38, no. 3 (2005): 50.

Thanks for that article.

[webbles]

37 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Found the following on a reddit post, I had no idea. I wonder if JS did have birth control methods. This is from D. Michael Quinn's book Early Mormonism and the Magic World View.

That is interesting.  Here's the dates:

Alvin Smith - Jun 15, 1828 (conception about Sep 22, 1827)

Luisa Smith - Apr 30, 1831 (premature, so maybe in Sep?)

Thaddeus Smith - Apr 30, 1831 (premature, so maybe in Sep?)

Joseph Smith III - Nov 6, 1832 (conception about Feb 13, 1831)

Frederick Smith - Jun 20, 1836 (conception about Sep 27, 1835)

Alexander Smith - Jun 2, 1838 (conception about Sep 9, 1837)

Don Carlos Smith - Jun 13, 1840 (conception about Sep 20, 1839)

David Smith - Nov 17, 1844 (conception about Feb 24, 1844)

 

I think one of the main reason to focus on the birth control is because none of his plural wives had children from him.  But there were 4 other polygamous children born before he died, so I don't see why Joseph would care about "hiding" his wives by not having children.  It is possible that he tried to conceive only during Sep and Feb so that might be why his plural wives didn't have children.  Limiting conception to only two months in the year would definitely impact the ability to conceive.  But I don't think he was using birth control to "hide" his wives.  The fact that he didn't have children with them is more likely just bad luck.  

In the article that Nevo linked to, it says:

Quote

On average, civil wives gave birth to their first child thirteen months after their marriage.  For plural wives, the period between marriage and first birth was nearly twice as long (twenty-four months).

So, for some reason, it was harder for polygamous wives to get pregnant in Nauvoo.

[ttribe]

17 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

Sorry, but who cares about this?  
 

It’s mildly interesting, but really, don’t you have something better to do with your time?

Clearly, the OP cares about this and has chosen to allocate some time to the activity.  Why that matters to you, is a bit of a mystery, however.

[katherine the great]

17 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

It’s mildly interesting, but really, don’t you have something better to do with your time?

Don’t you?

[mrmarklin]

8 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Don’t you?

Yes, I do. I’m not spending it looking up arcane, useless, facts that no one really cares about. 
 

I have many hobbies from which I derive a lot of satisfaction and sociability with my friends. 

[katherine the great]

Just now, mrmarklin said:

Yes, I do. I’m not spending it looking up arcane, useless, facts that no one really cares about. 
 

I have many hobbies from which I derive a lot of satisfaction and sociability with my friends. 

Then why are you here?

[Tacenda]

On 11/21/2021 at 10:01 PM, webbles said:

That is interesting.  Here's the dates:

Alvin Smith - Jun 15, 1828 (conception about Sep 22, 1827)

Luisa Smith - Apr 30, 1831 (premature, so maybe in Sep?)

Thaddeus Smith - Apr 30, 1831 (premature, so maybe in Sep?)

Joseph Smith III - Nov 6, 1832 (conception about Feb 13, 1831)

Frederick Smith - Jun 20, 1836 (conception about Sep 27, 1835)

Alexander Smith - Jun 2, 1838 (conception about Sep 9, 1837)

Don Carlos Smith - Jun 13, 1840 (conception about Sep 20, 1839)

David Smith - Nov 17, 1844 (conception about Feb 24, 1844)

 

I think one of the main reason to focus on the birth control is because none of his plural wives had children from him.  But there were 4 other polygamous children born before he died, so I don't see why Joseph would care about "hiding" his wives by not having children.  It is possible that he tried to conceive only during Sep and Feb so that might be why his plural wives didn't have children.  Limiting conception to only two months in the year would definitely impact the ability to conceive.  But I don't think he was using birth control to "hide" his wives.  The fact that he didn't have children with them is more likely just bad luck.  

In the article that Nevo linked to, it says:

So, for some reason, it was harder for polygamous wives to get pregnant in Nauvoo.

Thanks Webbles. Looks like the twins were an accident.