mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 2 hours ago, bOObOO said: Try this: The symbol for family is a man and a woman who are bound together as husband and wife and who have the potential to reproduce themselves by producing children. The symbol for family is not a family. The symbol for family simply represents a type of family as I described it while also representing what a family is and can be, literally. I'll elaborate on the concept and purpose of water for you just as soon as I feel you are ready to understand what I have already said in this thread. Uh, no, that's ok I could say the same, but we have shown again and again that it doesn't work Families are not literal. You are talking about words and theories = abstractions - by using the word "literal". It's self contradictory 1
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 On 9/19/2021 at 6:53 AM, Navidad said: You have consistently and regularly maintained that I don't understand LDS doctrine (such as you acknowledge that it exists). If I am interpreting your post correctly, and if what you have written represents what President Nelson would say about Christ, then you are probably right. Thanks. So what was the verdict on this? Did my later post help any? Any new insights?
Navidad Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 18 hours ago, bOObOO said: I say being born or born again is literal because the birth process is a literal process involving literal components, such as parents and water. Without parents and water a person can not be born or born again. The term "born again" isn't just a catchy phrase, with no literal meaning. And I would expect any person of the "Evangelical" persuasion to realize the term actually means something literally and to understand what is required for the birth process. In this case the Father is Jesus Christ and the Mother is his bride, his Church, which is a literal organization that can be sensed with all of the 5 common senses as well as the 6th sense and a sense of humor as well as the ability to reproduce as children. I am of the "Evangelical" persuasion and I can assure you the phrase "born again" is a metaphor for new life in Christ. Nothing more. 1
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 18 hours ago, bOObOO said: Try this: The symbol for family is a man and a woman who are bound together as husband and wife and who have the potential to reproduce themselves by producing children. The symbol for family is not a family. The symbol for family simply represents a type of family as I described it while also representing what a family is and can be, literally. I'll elaborate on the concept and purpose of water for you just as soon as I feel you are ready to understand what I have already said in this thread. Aw, that's so CUTE!
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Try this: The symbol for family is a man and a woman who are bound together as husband and wife and who have the potential to reproduce themselves by producing children. The symbol for family is not a family. Huh? I know you can do better Edited September 21, 2021 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 3:14 AM, Navidad said: Our focus is on depravity; yours is on potential. Perhaps that doesn't mean you think less than of God; but more than about humanity. If that is correct, the implications are great. D&C 132 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Navidad said: I am of the "Evangelical" persuasion and I can assure you the phrase "born again" is a metaphor for new life in Christ. Nothing more. No it is not a metaphor, a person who is born again is literally born again. Do you also think it is only a metaphor for a born again Christian to consider Jesus Christ his new Father and the true church of Jesus Christ his new Mother? That is literal too. Perhaps you're getting hung up on the notion that the only way for a person to be born is through a woman's literal womb. I suppose the womb of the Church could be considered a baptismal font and that is a literal place too. So there.
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 55 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Huh? I know you can do better Where did I lose you? Where I said the symbol for family is not a family? Consider a symbol for family to be a representation of every family while the symbol itself is only a symbol, not an actual family. Like how a picture of a tree is not a tree. You do realize that anyone who knows the truth on any issue doesn't guarantee that others will always agree on that issue, I hope.
ksfisher Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, bOObOO said: No it is not a metaphor, a person who is born again is literally born again. I doubt that you could find anyone who believes this except for you. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Where did I lose you? Where I said the symbol for family is not a family? Consider a symbol for family to be a representation of every family while the symbol itself is only a symbol, not an actual family. Like how a picture of a tree is not a tree. You do realize that anyone who knows the truth on any issue doesn't guarantee that others will always agree on that issue, I hope. Mark (and the rest of us) can be pretty slow so I'm glad you explained that to us...again. 2
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Mark (and the rest of us) can be pretty slow so I'm glad you explained that to us...again. Oh, not me! 🤪 I understand it so perfectly that we need to get on to a new topic!! LITERALLY. Edited September 21, 2021 by mfbukowski 2
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I doubt that you could find anyone who believes this except for you. I know a lot of literal born again Christians who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who believe and have faith that Jesus Christ is their Father and the Church is their Mother/the means by which they became born again Christians. I think you may even believe this, yourself, although you may not usually think about your relationship with Jesus Christ and his Church in these terms I am using which may even seem like a foreign language to you.
ksfisher Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I know a lot of literal born again Christians who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who believe and have faith that Jesus Christ is their Father and the Church is their Mother/the means by which they became born again Christians. I think you may even believe this, yourself, although you may not usually think about your relationship with Jesus Christ and his Church in these terms I am using which may even seem like a foreign language to you. I think it seems like a foreign language because you are literally not using the work literal correctly. When you are literally using the word literal you are literally using it in a non-literal way. This is literally why so many people have tried to literally tell you that you're literally using the word non-literally. 2
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I think it seems like a foreign language because you are literally not using the work literal correctly. When you are literally using the word literal you are literally using it in a non-literal way. This is literally why so many people have tried to literally tell you that you're literally using the word non-literally. Try this: Every time you see me use the word literal or literally just substitute the word actual or actually, or real or really, or true or truly, or something like that. I do not mean figuratively or metaphorically or allegorically when I use the word literal or literally. And then if you still don't agree with me then just realize that you literally really truly just disagree with me and what I am saying rather than just not agreeing with how I am using the word literal or literally.
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) Error. See below Edited September 21, 2021 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Even Jesus had to explain it: John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. [1] " 4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" 5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit [2] gives birth to spirit. Note no need for the word "literal". Jesus says it is about a spiritual rebirth Edited September 21, 2021 by mfbukowski
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Note no need for the word "literal". Jesus says it is about a spiritual rebirth And yet he also tells us baptism in water is essential and part of the process of being reborn. An important point to make when considering there are people who don't believe baptism in water is required, don't really know how to be born again, or why and how the true church of Jesus Christ is absolutely essential to the spiritual rebirth and maturation process.
ksfisher Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 30 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Note no need for the word "literal". Jesus says it is about a spiritual rebirth I had literally thought of that scripture as well, but literally didn't believe that it would be literally understood. Literally. 2
mfbukowski Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, ksfisher said: I had literally thought of that scripture as well, but literally didn't believe that it would be literally understood. Literally. But was your BELIEF of your literal thought actually literal? And what about the literal understanding of others? Would that LITERALLY be literal or actually be real? Or was it simply symbolic of the literal understanding? Dude, you just haven't learned anything literal, though I have literally tried to teach you! 1
bOObOO Posted September 21, 2021 Posted September 21, 2021 3 hours ago, ksfisher said: I had literally thought of that scripture as well, but literally didn't believe that it would be literally understood. Literally. That happens a lot with scripture. Some people literally think of some scripture literally while some other people do not think literally about them, as if by default they think some scripture should be thought of figuratively, instead of literally, as some should be. So the quandary sometimes is knowing what to think and how to think of some scriptures, given that there are some options regarding how some scriptures can be thought about. Some understand some scriptures literally while some other people think of those same scriptures figuratively, and of course all people are free to think of scriptures in any way they want to think about them, if they think about them at all. Or they may think of some scriptures while not thinking of other scriptures. Literally.
MiserereNobis Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 3:51 PM, bOObOO said: I'll elaborate on the concept and purpose of water for you just as soon as I feel you are ready to understand what I have already said in this thread. This is a classic Ahab statement. 3
mfbukowski Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said: This is a classic Ahab statement. I hope he learns that every one sees through that defensive pomposity instantly.
bOObOO Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: I hope he learns that every one sees through that defensive pomposity instantly. I feel so misunderstood by so many people on this forum. And after so many years of trying to communicate with all of you people, in English, using standard dictionary definitions of words. Probably just something to do with translating symbols effectively, though. i probably just should not expect all of you to understand me or to be as well acquainted with the English language as I am. Misunderstandings just happen. Anyway, I forgive all of you, even you Mark, and you are still some of my favorite people on this planet.
bOObOO Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 34 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: This is a classic Ahab statement. I think we all have "Ahab" moments.
MiserereNobis Posted September 22, 2021 Posted September 22, 2021 40 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I feel so misunderstood by so many people on this forum. Maybe because the problem lies with you? 41 minutes ago, bOObOO said: And after so many years of trying to communicate with all of you people, in English, using standard dictionary definitions of words. Like the standard dictionary definition of… literal? 42 minutes ago, bOObOO said: or to be as well acquainted with the English language as I am. 😂 42 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Anyway, I forgive all of you, even you Mark Even Mark? Oh, the magnanimity! 41 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I think we all have "Ahab" moments. Sure. But you, as Ahab, have them all the time. 1
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