The Symbol IS / IS NOT The Thing

[bOObOO]

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Maybe because the problem lies with you?

I just recently had my eyes checked for beams.  None were noticed, so I'm pretty dang sure that isn't the problem.  I understand that misunderstandings are fairly common among most people but I usually understand all of you people. 

 

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Like the standard dictionary definition of… literal?

Yes.  I think some of you people just didn't agree with me when I said some things were literal because you believe they should be considered only figuratively.  Like when I said Jesus is literally the Father of literally born again Christians. I do mean literally.

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Even Mark? Oh, the magnanimity!

Yes, even Mark, who frequently misunderstands me.  And I forgive you for misunderstanding me too.  Because I believe it's important to forgive anyone and everyone who thinks less of me than they should.

5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Sure. But you, as Ahab, have them all the time.

You do realize I am really not Ahab, don't you?  I think we all have some "Ahab" within us but as far as I know the Ahab that posted on this board for years before he was banned by some Moderator(s) was only a fictional character.  There is no real Ahab.

[Raingirl]

6 hours ago, bOObOO said:

I feel so misunderstood by so many people on this forum.  And after so many years of trying to communicate with all of you people, in English, using standard dictionary definitions of words.

Probably just something to do with translating symbols effectively, though.  i probably just should not expect all of you to understand me or to be as well acquainted with the English language as I am.  Misunderstandings just happen.

Anyway, I forgive all of you, even you Mark, and you are still some of my favorite people on this planet.

So many years? But your profile says you just joined in July. 🤷‍♀️

[Calm]

6 hours ago, bOObOO said:

be as well acquainted with the English language as I am

What English classics have you read, have you taken any college level English literature of English writing classes?

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, bOObOO said:

I feel so misunderstood by so many people on this forum.  And after so many years of trying to communicate with all of you people, in English, using standard dictionary definitions of words.

Probably just something to do with translating symbols effectively, though.  i probably just should not expect all of you to understand me or to be as well acquainted with the English language as I am.  Misunderstandings just happen.

Anyway, I forgive all of you, even you Mark, and you are still some of my favorite people on this planet.

I will try to do better, thank you, brother. Sorry

I need to live up to my rule to avoid reading your posts and commenting on them, I inevitably end up being very frustrated. You are an intelligent guy but we are just incompatible in speaking to each other 

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, Raingirl said:

So many years? But your profile says you just joined in July. 🤷‍♀️

He has had numerous sockpuppets but people instantly can identify his style 

Edited September 23, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Raingirl]

43 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

He has had numerous sockpuppets but people instantly can identify his style 

When one’s style is that obnoxious, it’s even harder to disguise. 

[bOObOO]

7 hours ago, Raingirl said:

When one’s style is that obnoxious, it’s even harder to disguise. 

People who characteristically criticize negatively are obnoxious to me.  I sometimes think negative thoughts but I rarely express them openly with explicit outspoken words and even more rarely in a forum accessible to people from all over the planet.

Everyone has a bad mood every once in a while but people who commonly openly complain and criticize while using words such as obnoxious and acting as though they can't manage to be nice to people and love them while noticing their imperfections...

well, I'll just say now that I am usually inspired and impressed with people who seem to be nice all of the time even when speaking to some really seriously flawed people.  I know all Christians should symbolize Jesus Christ but not like when he judged people like he judged some Pharisees and Sadducees.  I think we're supposed to represent the good and kind side of him, not his wrathful side when he pronounces harsh judgments against others.  We're not always able to see things he can see.

 

[ProphetShiloh]

On 9/14/2021 at 4:10 PM, JLHPROF said:

On another thread the principle of the symbol being or not being the thing it represents was raised.

A good example of when a symbol was mistakenly believed to be the actual thing led to transubstantiation in the sacrament.
I know many here disagree, but for me the opposite is true when people believe something actual is believed to be a symbol - like Adam, Noah, or the Ark.

I can think of examples in the gospel where the symbolic item is SOMETIMES the actual thing but not always.  For example, the Celestial Room only represents coming into the presence of the Lord, except when the Lord is actually there.
The temple as fortress against the world - I think that is both symbolic AND actual.
I'm trying to come up with some situations where the symbolic item in the gospel actually is what it represents.  

What say the board members?
Can you think of times when a gospel symbol IS or IS NOT the actual thing it supposedly represents?

 

You sound sure about Adam not being a symbol of something, but I request for you to consider that Adam, Noah, etc., aren't exceptions.  All holy writ is sealed in what I call the Adamic Metalanguage of Symbol (a.k.a. the Seer's Tongue).

When I went through temple preparation class I was taught that everything presented in the endowment ceremony is symbolic and that we needed the help of the Spirit to come to understand what all of those symbols represent.  I was also told that the meaning of these symbols wouldn't all be spelled out for me in the temple.  I would have to figure it out on my own, with God's help.  At face value, this means that the symbol is NOT the thing, but that it merely represents some reality that is behind the symbol.  I agreed with this then, and I continue to agree with it to this day (approx 30 years later).

Since Adam is featured in the LDS temple ceremony and rites, the clear implication to me here is that Adam is also a symbol that represents something.  Thanks to modern high-tech science and archeology, we now know for a fact that the traditional interpretation that assumes Adam and Eve were the first human beings on planet earth 6,000 years ago is at best an oversimplification of things.  Humanoids at various levels of intelligence and civilization have for sure been present on Planet Earth far prior to 6,000 years ago.  Some other understanding is required, else those who blindly cling to an anti-truth interpretation only do a disservice to religion and add to the trend of religion being disrespected and ridiculed, and unfortunately, rightly so.

This concept of hidden meanings behind symbols is the whole point of speaking of a veil.  The veil, among other things, refers to a type of ancient encryption technology to conceal the real meaning behind the symbols utilized in God's words.  In this manner, the true knowledge is preserved for only those to whom the Holy Spirit gives the inspiration to acquire the keys to decipher what is really being said.  Joseph Smith, Jr., was indeed such a seer who had the full command of this language.

And, just using the scriptures that we LDS have, I can establish what this symbolic representation actually is.  Joseph Smith, Jr., left a trail of bread crumbs, so to speak, such that what he knew could eventually be fully understood and verified against everything he ever taught.  The JST of Revelation chapter 12 tells us point blank the paradigm of what Michael, the woman, etc., spoken of there actually are.  Incidentally, this is what the Lord was talking about in the D&C when he said that important things would be revealed in the translation of the New Testament.  Here is an excerpt:

D&C 45
56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived--verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.
60 And now, behold, I say unto you, it shall not be given unto you to know any further concerning this chapter, until the New Testament be translated, and in it all these things shall be made known;
61 Wherefore I give unto you that ye may now translate it, that ye may be prepared for the things to come.

Apparently, those who have not understood what I am about to share here have been among the foolish virgins who had insufficient oil to burn in their lamps in order to see well enough to discern the coming of the Son of Man.  We are accountable to feast upon every word that comes from God to make sure that we truly understand it.  This definitely is among some of the most important things Joseph Smith, Jr., revealed to us.

Revelation 12 talks about Michael, the woman who was Michael's bride, their man child born to them in the wilderness, and the dragon or serpent who made war against them.  The scriptures talk a lot about the saga of this great celestial conflict between Michael and the dragon, but they don't give us all of the normal identifiers to know for sure the names of all of the parties involved.  We are who need to put all of this together through inspiration.

There are several keys that should be picked up on here:

The son of Michael and his bride is not given.  However, he is referred to as the "man child" who was "born of the woman".  This contains an extremely important key.  Who is "man"?  We learn in the creation account that "man" is actually a conjoining of the male and the female counterparts.  More specifically, this is Adam and Eve joined joined together as a body of "one flesh", just as God commanded them to become.  Therefore, Man is the union of Adam and Eve into a flesh-and-bone being that is "one".  A patriarch is a being with its own celestial and eternal identity, but which is composed by joining together sovereign individuals in a covenant of union.  In this manner, Adam and Eve are both one and many.  Many religious conundrums are resolved when this key of understanding is properly made use of.  This understanding is why Joseph Smith, Jr., taught that the Archangel Michael (a heavenly prince) becomes the king of the Father's Kingdom as Adam when he comes into the flesh.

We should also carefully examine what the JST says about the woman who gave birth to the man child.  A very key phrase is added to the text which simply says that the woman is the Church of God.  Here we learn that the true identity behind the symbol of Eve is that she represents the union of the Saints in the Church of God.  This union is another type of covenant union that takes multiple individuals and joins them together into a body that has its own singular identity.  This is why God commands the Latter-day Saints to "be one".  Therefore, human beings who are enlightened to receive the fullness of the Gospel and who worthily enter into the covenants established therein by way of those who are authorized to administer these ordinances, become members of the flesh-and-bone body of Eve.  In short, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints literally is Eve of the new world that had its foundation laid by way of the ministry of Joseph Smith, Jr.  And, if you listen carefully, the endowment explicitly establishes this as fact.  The flesh-and-bone body of Michael-Adam is the Priesthood organization that was established by Joseph Smith, Jr., which initially was a separate organization from the Church.  However, the Priesthood and the Church did become a body of "one flesh".  The successor of the keys of the Priesthood was the Church.  This is how and when she obtained the status of being clothed with the sun.  She and Adam became "one".

Therefore, we also learn that the man child (who is the Son of Man) is given the garment of glory that Adam/Eve (Man) was robed in was given to the Son of Man.  What this means is that the Son of Man is the appointed successor of the keys of the Priesthood from his parents as their Firstborn.  So the identity of the Son of Man isn't a single human individual.  Rather, the Son of Man is a body of flesh-and-bone like his parents.  Since he is a male personage, this means that he would be a priesthood organization as opposed to a single human male person.

Therefore, those who wish to look for and "see" the Son of Man will not perceive him unless they are looking for what he actually is.  The consequences of being unable to "see" him are apparently of a very dangerous and undesirable quality.  Many prophets, including Jesus himself, gave many warnings about failing to receive the Son of Man at his coming.  We were even warned that he could come at a time when people were completely oblivious to his arrival and wouldn't be aware.  His coming would be as if he were a thief in the night, to our detriment.

Anyway, I am perhaps carrying on a bit much on this subject.  I just wanted to respond to the notion that Adam isn't symbolic when I firmly believe that even Adam is symbolic.  His body of flesh-and-bone was the School of the Prophets organization established and headed by Joseph Smith, Jr., which makes Joseph Smith, Jr., the "face" of Michael-Adam.  In other words, Joseph Smith, Jr., presides over the 3rd member of the Godhead.

 

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, ProphetShiloh said:

The veil, among other things, refers to a type of ancient encryption technology to conceal the real meaning behind the symbols utilized in God's words

Technology or methodology?  If the first, what type of technology are you thinking of?

Are you using “flesh-and-bone” to mean physical, material, or temporal organization/entity instead of a human body that we usually mean when using those terms?

Edited November 13, 2021 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

18 minutes ago, ProphetShiloh said:

You sound sure about Adam not being a symbol of something, but I request for you to consider that Adam, Noah, etc., aren't exceptions.  All holy writ is sealed in what I call the Adamic Metalanguage of Symbol (a.k.a. the Seer's Tongue).

When I went through temple preparation class I was taught that everything presented in the endowment ceremony is symbolic and that we needed the help of the Spirit to come to understand what all of those symbols represent.  I was also told that the meaning of these symbols wouldn't all be spelled out for me in the temple.  I would have to figure it out on my own, with God's help.  At face value, this means that the symbol is NOT the thing, but that it merely represents some reality that is behind the symbol.  I agreed with this then, and I continue to agree with it to this day (approx 30 years later).

Since Adam is featured in the LDS temple ceremony and rites, the clear implication to me here is that Adam is also a symbol that represents something.  Thanks to modern high-tech science and archeology, we now know for a fact that the traditional interpretation that assumes Adam and Eve were the first human beings on planet earth 6,000 years ago is at best an oversimplification of things.  Humanoids at various levels of intelligence and civilization have for sure been present on Planet Earth far prior to 6,000 years ago.  Some other understanding is required, else those who blindly cling to an anti-truth interpretation only do a disservice to religion and add to the trend of religion being disrespected and ridiculed, and unfortunately, rightly so.

This concept of hidden meanings behind symbols is the whole point of speaking of a veil.  The veil, among other things, refers to a type of ancient encryption technology to conceal the real meaning behind the symbols utilized in God's words.  In this manner, the true knowledge is preserved for only those to whom the Holy Spirit gives the inspiration to acquire the keys to decipher what is really being said.  Joseph Smith, Jr., was indeed such a seer who had the full command of this language.

And, just using the scriptures that we LDS have, I can establish what this symbolic representation actually is.  Joseph Smith, Jr., left a trail of bread crumbs, so to speak, such that what he knew could eventually be fully understood and verified against everything he ever taught.  The JST of Revelation chapter 12 tells us point blank the paradigm of what Michael, the woman, etc., spoken of there actually are.  Incidentally, this is what the Lord was talking about in the D&C when he said that important things would be revealed in the translation of the New Testament.  Here is an excerpt:

D&C 45
56 And at that day, when I shall come in my glory, shall the parable be fulfilled which I spake concerning the ten virgins.
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived--verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
58 And the earth shall be given unto them for an inheritance; and they shall multiply and wax strong, and their children shall grow up without sin unto salvation.
59 For the Lord shall be in their midst, and his glory shall be upon them, and he will be their king and their lawgiver.
60 And now, behold, I say unto you, it shall not be given unto you to know any further concerning this chapter, until the New Testament be translated, and in it all these things shall be made known;
61 Wherefore I give unto you that ye may now translate it, that ye may be prepared for the things to come.

Apparently, those who have not understood what I am about to share here have been among the foolish virgins who had insufficient oil to burn in their lamps in order to see well enough to discern the coming of the Son of Man.  We are accountable to feast upon every word that comes from God to make sure that we truly understand it.  This definitely is among some of the most important things Joseph Smith, Jr., revealed to us.

Revelation 12 talks about Michael, the woman who was Michael's bride, their man child born to them in the wilderness, and the dragon or serpent who made war against them.  The scriptures talk a lot about the saga of this great celestial conflict between Michael and the dragon, but they don't give us all of the normal identifiers to know for sure the names of all of the parties involved.  We are who need to put all of this together through inspiration.

There are several keys that should be picked up on here:

The son of Michael and his bride is not given.  However, he is referred to as the "man child" who was "born of the woman".  This contains an extremely important key.  Who is "man"?  We learn in the creation account that "man" is actually a conjoining of the male and the female counterparts.  More specifically, this is Adam and Eve joined joined together as a body of "one flesh", just as God commanded them to become.  Therefore, Man is the union of Adam and Eve into a flesh-and-bone being that is "one".  A patriarch is a being with its own celestial and eternal identity, but which is composed by joining together sovereign individuals in a covenant of union.  In this manner, Adam and Eve are both one and many.  Many religious conundrums are resolved when this key of understanding is properly made use of.  This understanding is why Joseph Smith, Jr., taught that the Archangel Michael (a heavenly prince) becomes the king of the Father's Kingdom as Adam when he comes into the flesh.

We should also carefully examine what the JST says about the woman who gave birth to the man child.  A very key phrase is added to the text which simply says that the woman is the Church of God.  Here we learn that the true identity behind the symbol of Eve is that she represents the union of the Saints in the Church of God.  This union is another type of covenant union that takes multiple individuals and joins them together into a body that has its own singular identity.  This is why God commands the Latter-day Saints to "be one".  Therefore, human beings who are enlightened to receive the fullness of the Gospel and who worthily enter into the covenants established therein by way of those who are authorized to administer these ordinances, become members of the flesh-and-bone body of Eve.  In short, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints literally is Eve of the new world that had its foundation laid by way of the ministry of Joseph Smith, Jr.  And, if you listen carefully, the endowment explicitly establishes this as fact.  The flesh-and-bone body of Michael-Adam is the Priesthood organization that was established by Joseph Smith, Jr., which initially was a separate organization from the Church.  However, the Priesthood and the Church did become a body of "one flesh".  The successor of the keys of the Priesthood was the Church.  This is how and when she obtained the status of being clothed with the sun.  She and Adam became "one".

Therefore, we also learn that the man child (who is the Son of Man) is given the garment of glory that Adam/Eve (Man) was robed in was given to the Son of Man.  What this means is that the Son of Man is the appointed successor of the keys of the Priesthood from his parents as their Firstborn.  So the identity of the Son of Man isn't a single human individual.  Rather, the Son of Man is a body of flesh-and-bone like his parents.  Since he is a male personage, this means that he would be a priesthood organization as opposed to a single human male person.

Therefore, those who wish to look for and "see" the Son of Man will not perceive him unless they are looking for what he actually is.  The consequences of being unable to "see" him are apparently of a very dangerous and undesirable quality.  Many prophets, including Jesus himself, gave many warnings about failing to receive the Son of Man at his coming.  We were even warned that he could come at a time when people were completely oblivious to his arrival and wouldn't be aware.  His coming would be as if he were a thief in the night, to our detriment.

Anyway, I am perhaps carrying on a bit much on this subject.  I just wanted to respond to the notion that Adam isn't symbolic when I firmly believe that even Adam is symbolic.  His body of flesh-and-bone was the School of the Prophets organization established and headed by Joseph Smith, Jr., which makes Joseph Smith, Jr., the "face" of Michael-Adam.  In other words, Joseph Smith, Jr., presides over the 3rd member of the Godhead.

 

Interesting stuff, and there are other ways also of interpreting it