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Members getting harassed as they come to church


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On 7/19/2021 at 12:05 PM, JAHS said:

Anti-Religious Harassment For Profit Hits The Santa Clarita Valley

"It’s a beautiful Sunday morning.  Parents arrive early with their children to church while the pastor rehearses his final Sabbath remarks. As smiling Sunday School teachers greet the children, suddenly, masked cameramen dressed in all black arrive in the parking lot and begin taking pictures of the families arriving while hurling insults at the Sunday School teachers.
“F— you Karen,” hollers one cameraman in a black mask as he gives the Sunday School teacher the middle finger and takes a picture of her license plate.  His associate, another cameraman dressed in all black, except a skull-face biker mask, hollers “Allah alyi Akbar” as he stops a car and films the VIN number on the dash through the windshield while waving military signals to others, supposedly hiding in the bushes.  The pastor runs out to see what the commotion is, but the cameramen refuse to identify themselves as they harass and intimidate cars coming into the parking lot, snapping photos of the drivers and their license plates while hurling insults.
Afraid the church is under some attack, or, that some violent protest is about to happen, the pastor calls police and orders the church on lockdown.   Several late-coming church members try and confront the cameramen.  As one of the cameramen tries to take a picture of his children, their father pushes the camera away.  The cameraman sprays him in the face with pepper spray claiming to be the victim of ‘assault’.  By now the police arrive and the father is in handcuffs, while the cameramen gleefully film from the public sidewalk.  They will make about $2,000 from this video.

Congratulations, your church just completed its inaugural “First Amendment Audit” and there is nothing you can do about it.

Or is there?
 

Lots of things we can do.  For example, hold up a large mirror so they can see how funny they look.  or to reflect the sun in their face.  (i like to keep one in my car for this kind of thing and other occasions)

or read to them from the Book of Mormon, just reading and reading without stopping.  they will either become interested in what you are reading or they will be annoyed.  and if they are annoyed long enough they will usually leave

i like it when i can do something to draw in an audience by doing whatever it is i am doing.  and when people become violent i just call the police while defending myself as i am able.

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29 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

Lots of things we can do.  For example, hold up a large mirror so they can see how funny they look.  or to reflect the sun in their face.  (i like to keep one in my car for this kind of thing and other occasions)

or read to them from the Book of Mormon, just reading and reading without stopping.  they will either become interested in what you are reading or they will be annoyed.  and if they are annoyed long enough they will usually leave

i like it when i can do something to draw in an audience by doing whatever it is i am doing.  and when people become violent i just call the police while defending myself as i am able.

Well said bOObOO

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On 7/21/2021 at 12:42 PM, strappinglad said:

In SLC there may be a company that will provide a half dozen Samoan gentlemen for just such occasions. 😎

Heh.  I get the temptation, but I also understand why this is not a smart response.   People have been asking for a fight and then claiming victim when the fight arrives, for fun and profit, for centuries.   Siblings learn how to provoke their little brother to hit them right as mom is walking into the room.  AntifaTube has endless videos of innocent protesters getting maced and clubbed, without the prior 10 minutes of context where they ignore all the police commands to disperse.  And yes, loud jerks with cameras show up to make people uncomfortable and then capture a disproportionate response, sometimes making money in the ensuing lawsuit.

If I remember correctly, Denson and the guy who hidden-cameras the temple ceremonies pulled something similar.  This was after their original video where Denson takes the pulpit to call out the guy for rape, but before their loud and public break up.  There was another video, where they actually had two cameras planted in the pews.   Denson takes her turn bearing her testimony, and a guy in the 2nd row very obviously holds up his phone to record the whole thing.  And a third cameraperson behind that, captured some pear-shaped suit full of adrenalin and righteous indignation, got shovey at the first cameraman.  That video seems to have disappeared from YouTube, I'm guessing because charges of assault got filed and lawyers were involved. 

Yeah, you don't bring a bus of Samoans to a 1st amendment auditing party.  Not unless you wanna get everyone but the auditors arrested and sued.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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On 7/20/2021 at 4:57 PM, Calm said:

Give them some chocolate, lots of chocolate.

 

And because I suspect very few will get that….

For further details….

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Auditors_of_Reality

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Chocolat

https://wiki.lspace.org/Myria_LeJean

I don’t know how I missed this! You’re a Terry Pratchett fan? I love his books. I have read all but about four of the recent ones before his untimely death.

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5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t know how I missed this! You’re a Terry Pratchett fan? I love his books. I have read all but about four of the recent ones before his untimely death.

I was waiting for you to say something, put it up mainly for you :)…because I have seen you reference him off and on.  There was one other poster who was a big fan iirc, but don’t think he posts much.  I need to get more of the DW books.  We bought the first few and 4 Death ones, my favorite, intending to add a few each year, but the rest I read through our library which had tons, but were often checked out.  I stopped buying books shortly after I found him as I read some through scrib and my daughter has lost the ability to concentrate enough to read novels…so thinking I have maybe read half, at least a third.  I may start getting used copies as I am not seeing them on scrib as much as I expected they would eventually be and I don’t want to commit to the ebook habit, for some reason.  Haven’t checked scrib in awhile though.  Maybe I will get a stack for my birthday.

Edited by Calm
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6 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

where they ignore all the police commands to disperse

If all they are doing is ignoring the command to disperse, I don’t think seeing that is going to change the minds of most people who horrified when they see police using clubs and mace on them.

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57 minutes ago, Calm said:

If all they are doing is ignoring the command to disperse, I don’t think seeing that is going to change the minds of most people who horrified when they see police using clubs and mace on them.

Well, it's a separate topic, but yeah, people who get horrified at things no matter what the context, don't get their mind changed by context.  It's a tautology, but one that applies to plenty of people.

But not everyone, hence, the tactic of removing the context increases the effectiveness of the spun message.

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4 hours ago, Calm said:

I was waiting for you to say something, put it up mainly for you :)…because I have seen you reference him off and on.  There was one other poster who was a big fan iirc, but don’t think he posts much.  I need to get more of the DW books.  We bought the first few and 4 Death ones, my favorite, intending to add a few each year, but the rest I read through our library which had tons, but were often checked out.  I stopped buying books shortly after I found him as I read some through scrib and my daughter has lost the ability to concentrate enough to read novels…so thinking I have maybe read half, at least a third.  I may start getting used copies as I am not seeing them on scrib as much as I expected they would eventually be and I don’t want to commit to the ebook habit, for some reason.  Haven’t checked scrib in awhile though.  Maybe I will get a stack for my birthday.

I think you would really enjoy the witches and wizards books….if you haven’t already read them. Granny Weatherwax reminds me of my mother. Color of Magic, Hogfather, and Good Omens have been made into movies.

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7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think you would really enjoy the witches and wizards books….if you haven’t already read them. Granny Weatherwax reminds me of my mother. Color of Magic, Hogfather, and Good Omens have been made into movies.

Seen all the movies, but going postal iirc. Loved Hogfather. 
 

I have read many more than bought, Grannywether Wax and the other witches are my second favorite after Death, wizards probably least but been awhile.  I like the Nightwatch group. 
 

I love him turning tropes on their head and his bringing in all sorts of mythology.

And then I have this turtle/tortoise thing…always wanted a pet. 

Edited by Calm
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9 hours ago, Calm said:

Seen all the movies, but going postal iirc. Loved Hogfather. 
 

I have read many more than bought, Grannywether Wax and the other witches are my second favorite after Death, wizards probably least but been awhile.  I like the Nightwatch group. 
 

I love him turning tropes on their head and his bringing in all sorts of mythology.

And then I have this turtle/tortoise thing…always wanted a pet. 

We are certainly on the same wavelength here! I love the way he builds a joke over many pages only having it to turn out to be a groaner. I like to underline all the cliches, puns, malaprops, metaphors, and other references to the topic of the book , such as rock lyrics and titles, time, the post office, Hollywood, etc. Genius. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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Piers Anthony’s Xanth books were based on puns, but it got boring for me after the first six books.  Characters weren’t as interesting either. Prachett had a way that his games worked into the story better rather than one tripping across them constantly so they actually became a distraction as they did in Xanth. 
 

Discworld is fun whether you have the education to enjoy the games or not. He has layers….

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Interesting. Did anyone catch that the article liberally quotes Cardon Ellis, the creator of the FAIR/"This is The Show" videos?

Quote

“These guys crossed the line from First Amendment auditing to ‘anti-religious-harassment-for-profit’ when they started breaking the law,” said Cardon Ellis, host of Problem Solver Politics on FM98.1, and a witness to the events.  “I have nothing but respect for the First Amendment, and, honestly, some of the content these first Amendment auditors create online can be really funny and start important conversations about our civil rights, but these guys crossed the line from protected free speech into ‘religious-harassment-for-profit’ when they began actively disrupting religious services and blocking traffic in and out of the church’s parking lot… religious minorities have constitutionally protected rights too.”

But that's not the best quote...

 

Quote

“I actually feel sorry for these guys,” commented Ellis, “Online anti-religiosity, specifically anti-Mormonism is nothing new, because it can be lucrative if you do it right.  We have other anti-Mormons that say just as vile and racist things about us and our church as these ‘auditors’ did but they’re making triple what they do.  John Dehlin, the number one anti-Mormon as of late, got busted this year online for allegations of sexual abuse and racist comments about a popular black Mormon comedian, Kwaku El, and he still managed to make over three-hundred thousand dollars last year in donations…that’s almost triple what these guys pull in!  It’s sad and unfortunate, but there is serious talk in our church about the need for our own version of the Anti-Defamation-League to counter these lies because online defamation always precedes real-world violence and the FBI has been tracking an increase in anti-Mormon hate crimes since 2013. Anti-religious hate broadly, and anti-Mormon rhetoric specifically is getting too common and too profitable…maybe this will be a catalyst for that.”

 

Edited by cinepro
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3 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Point 5 should be.  Follow the auditors back to their homes if able.  Then return the favor outside their homes.

I still think it's better to just completely ignore them. Anything else could escalate to something dangerous.

 

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13 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Point 5 should be.  Follow the auditors back to their homes if able.  Then return the favor outside their homes.

So, just playing devil's advocate here, this is the response you'd get.

Carbon, why are you so against the constitution of the United States?  What exact problem do you have with the 1st amendment?  What are you up to, that you're trying to retaliate against people exercising their first amendment rights to stand in public and film?  These folks never bothered you at your home, what nerve did we touch that you are ramping up schoolyard bullying tactics like this?

They'd of course be filming this encounter.   Then they'd post it on Youtube with the name like "Anti-american jerk follows private citizen to home and invades privacy".  How many views/likes/shares the video would get, depends on how angry or stupid you get.  If you get riled up enough to try to grab a camera or make physical contact, then the cops show up, the video goes viral, and maybe dude makes some money out of you in the ensuing assault case.

So yeah, if you think that's worth your time, and a good risk for some worthy return, you go for it.

 

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