Elder ballard on singles

[Hamba Tuhan]

36 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I am curious what has changed among Church members to move us to a point where half the adult members are single yet not pairing up. 

What is it we aren't seeing in each other any longer?

I, my two housemates (both adult converts), and my recently divorced former bishop all went to our stake's single adult fast breaker this evening. We were the only men there. Three women attended.

One has children nearly as old as the younger of my two housemates and spoke up during my brief devotional to let us all know that she doesn't need to forgive her ex-husband and that, in fact, she's relying on the Lord to punish him for her. (Her ex-husband, by the way, is a faithful and diligent member of our stake high council.)

One has been married and divorced three times. Husbands #1 and #3 both live in the stake and have been significantly wounded by their former marriages. No one seems to be too flash-hot on volunteering to be husband #4.

The last one is a very pleasant woman, quite interesting to talk to, but who is inclined towards alternative 'medicine' in a way that makes me nervous.

What is it that I'm not seeing here?

Edited April 4, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[CV75]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Certainly not what I was suggesting.  I am curious what has changed among Church members to move us to a point where half the adult members are single yet not pairing up. 

What is it we aren't seeing in each other any longer?  What is preventing these relationships from forming among faithful saints?  What is making it so difficult that wasn't there 50 or 100 years prior when the majority of adult members were apparently married?

This report offers a few insigths: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/

"This trend cuts across all major racial and ethnic groups..." It seems the increasing rate of non-marriage relationships forming among the non-faithful, and drawing the faithful into them, would negatively affect the opportunities for the remaining faithful to form them with otherwise/erstwhile faithful partners.

"The dramatic rise in the share of never-married adults and the emerging gender gap are related to a variety of factors." When I say "non-marital relationship" I am referring to more than co-habitation, but to any alternative relationship one might form with vocation, money, avocation, hobby, addiction, etc. Elder Holland spoke of unprecedented prosperity and license/freedom serving as unprecedented temptations for misuse.

Edited April 4, 2021 by CV75

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, CV75 said:

This report offers a few insigths: https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2014/09/24/record-share-of-americans-have-never-married/

"This trend cuts across all major racial and ethnic groups..."

It seems the increasing rate of non-marriage relationships forming among the non-faithful, and drawing the faithful into them, would negatively affect the opportunities for the remaining faithful to form them with otherwise/erstwhile faithful partners.

Another good reason for marrying within the faith. And for being equally yoked. 
 

Mate selection is one area where discrimination is not just acceptable, but called for. 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Chum]

3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Certainly not what I was suggesting.  I am curious what has changed among Church members to move us to a point where half the adult members are single yet not pairing up. 

What is it we aren't seeing in each other any longer?  What is preventing these relationships from forming among faithful saints?  What is making it so difficult that wasn't there 50 or 100 years prior when the majority of adult members were apparently married?

My uninformed guess is that we've shifted from a concentration of largely devout members to a much wider range of faith. Members are limiting themselves to those who align with their level of faith. Complicating this are those who are waxing and waning in their relationships with the Church.

I get why folks would want to limit themselves to those of similar level of faith. I wouldn't want to continually expose a happy devout member to my ongoing challenges.

As an aside, another factor in play is that less active members are, well, less active.

[Chum]

deleted.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Chum
It didn't look like it posted, the first time.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

My uninformed guess is that we've shifted from a concentration of largely devout members to a much wider range of faith. Members are limiting themselves to those who align with their level of faith. Complicating this are those who are waxing and waning in their relationships with the Church.

I get why folks would want to limit themselves to those of similar level of faith. I wouldn't want to continually expose a happy devout member to my ongoing challenges.

As an aside, another factor in play is that less active members are, well, less active.

What an interesting concept.  Not just similar religious affiliation but similar levels of testimony 

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Another good reason for marrying within the faith. And for being equally yoked. 

I recently finished reading "The Polygamous Wives Writing Club".

I am struck by the way in the 90% Utah community so many chose to marry at the first available opportunity.  And after short courtships.  As if all the details we today spend months or years evaluating before marriage might be superfluous.

Perhaps despite the 50%+ single rate we are not socializing as exclusively with those of similar belief as before.  

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I, my two housemates (both adult converts), and my recently divorced former bishop all went to our stake's single adult fast breaker this evening. We were the only men there. Three women attended.

So despite the large number of single members there are within your social circle a small number of appropriate partners.  It matters not how many potential partners there are in the Church if they aren't local.  One disadvantage of a worldwide Church?  A lower percent concentrated in an area?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

My uninformed guess is that we've shifted from a concentration of largely devout members to a much wider range of faith. Members are limiting themselves to those who align with their level of faith. Complicating this are those who are waxing and waning in their relationships with the Church.

I get why folks would want to limit themselves to those of similar level of faith. I wouldn't want to continually expose a happy devout member to my ongoing challenges.

As an aside, another factor in play is that less active members are, well, less active.

45 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

What an interesting concept.  Not just similar religious affiliation but similar levels of testimony 

I recently finished reading "The Polygamous Wives Writing Club".

I am struck by the way in the 90% Utah community so many chose to marry at the first available opportunity.  And after short courtships.  As if all the details we today spend months or years evaluating before marriage might be superfluous.

Perhaps despite the 50%+ single rate we are not socializing as exclusively with those of similar belief as before.  

So despite the large number of single members there are within your social circle a small number of appropriate partners.  It matters not how many potential partners there are in the Church if they aren't local.  One disadvantage of a worldwide Church?  A lower percent concentrated in an area?

The same survey i posted above says: "The dramatic rise in the share of never-married adults and the emerging gender gap are related to a variety of factors."

Elder Holland spoke of unprecedented prosperity and license/freedom serving as unprecedented temptations for misuse, which I think contributes to a range of alternative relationships (factors) one might form with vocation, money, avocation, hobby, addiction, etc. and that interfere with human, social relationships. Such a level of interest in other pursuits would contribute to "months or years evaluating" marriage prospects or cause someone not as engrossed in other pursuits to seriously nd carefully evaluate those in their social circle who are, narrowing their options.

Edited April 4, 2021 by CV75

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

What an interesting concept.  Not just similar religious affiliation but similar levels of testimony.

I've never actually put it into these words, but yes, exactly!

I've mentioned on this forum before the experience I had at a large YSA house gathering one Saturday whilst studying in the American Midwest. I walked into the kitchen at one point to get a drink, and most of the females were in there discussing how they had no intention of letting a bunch of old, out-of-touch, white men (the prophets and apostles) dictate how they were going to live their lives. Needless to say, I walked straight back out again.

A few years ago, I asked out a woman in our stake who had divorced some months prior. During the date, she told me to my face that I was too 'churchy' for her to consider as a marriage partner. Message received loud and clear.

Quote

I am struck by the way in the 90% Utah community so many chose to marry at the first available opportunity.  And after short courtships.  As if all the details we today spend months or years evaluating before marriage might be superfluous.

When I was living in the American northeast, Pres Eyring was the visiting authority at our stake conference. He specifically addressed the growing number of divorces in the Church and then spent the rest of his talk explaining that one of the major factors was people rushing into marriage without knowing each other well enough to have established compatibility. He stated that Pres Kimball's comment on 'any two people' was perhaps the most taken out of context of any quote that goes around the Church, designed as it was for already-married couples experiencing troubles. He then encouraged us not to get into that kind of trouble in the first place.

Twice now, I've mentioned my former bishop who recently divorced. I've been his sounding board through all of this, and it's quite clear that his major mistake was rushing into marriage with someone whom he didn't really know. As a convert, he had been told that any two people who love the Lord could make a marriage work, so post-mission he just went looking for another active woman. Unfortunately, he ended up with one who informed him during their first year of marriage that she didn't like him and wouldn't have married him if she'd known him better. That he faithfully slogged on through another 20 years of her ever-growing dislike is, in my opinion, to his credit.

On this point, I'm reminded of an Institute lesson with Kenneth Godfrey back when I was an undergraduate in America. He shared with us, from his PhD research, the minutes from a stake conference in (or near) Logan, Utah, that recorded the sermon given by a male member of the stake on the blessings of living plural marriage. Then he shared with us the same member's journal entry that night wherein he wrote about his despair and abject loneliness as a stranger socially isolated in his own home.

Quote

So despite the large number of single members there are within your social circle a small number of appropriate partners.

Mate, if the number were anything larger than zero, I'd be married right now.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I, my two housemates (both adult converts), and my recently divorced former bishop all went to our stake's single adult fast breaker this evening. We were the only men there. Three women attended.

One has children nearly as old as the younger of my two housemates and spoke up during my brief devotional to let us all know that she doesn't need to forgive her ex-husband and that, in fact, she's relying on the Lord to punish him for her. (Her ex-husband, by the way, is a faithful and diligent member of our stake high council.)

One has been married and divorced three times. Husbands #1 and #3 both live in the stake and have been significantly wounded by their former marriages. No one seems to be too flash-hot on volunteering to be husband #4.

The last one is a very pleasant woman, quite interesting to talk to, but who is inclined towards alternative 'medicine' in a way that makes me nervous.

What is it that I'm not seeing here?

The odds are good but the goods are odd.