Controversy Re: USU Prez's Purported Comments on Polynesian Latter-day Saint Coach's Religious and Cultural Background

[smac97]

Utah State University's football team (the team, mind you) just canceled its last football game of the season.  Why it did so is . . . pretty interesting (from the Deseret News) :

Quote

The Aggies’ game against Colorado State has been canceled “amid concerns voiced by (Utah State football) players about religious discrimination during the search for a new football coach,” the school confirmed via a tweet on its official Twitter account Friday evening after Stadium’s Brett McMurphy first reported the news.

According to McMurphy’s report, Utah State president Noelle Cockett voiced concerns about interim head coach Frank Maile’s religious and cultural background during a Zoom meeting with the team Tuesday. Maile, a native of West Valley City and a USU alumnus, is Polynesian and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those concerns left many Aggie players “dumbfounded,” according to McMurphy.

Per the above-linked "McMurphy's report" :

Quote

The players were so “dumbfounded” by Cockett’s comments that a player conducted an anonymous players-only survey asking the players if they were on the zoom call and whether they were concerned about anything they heard in the meeting.

About three-fourths of the team that responded by Thursday mentioned they were concerned about the religious bias against Maile by Cockett. The players said they don’t believe the Zoom call was recorded.

None of the players were aware of each other’s answers and responded individually.

On Friday morning, in a players-only meeting that lasted more than an hour, the players unanimously voted to not play the season finale because of these issues. The coaching staff was not aware of the players’ meeting until after its conclusion. The Aggies finished the year 1-5.

I wonder how this "survey" was worded.  

So what was it that Pres. Cockett said?  I'm not exactly sure, but we have this quote from a statement published by "the team" :

Quote

“The Utah State football players have decided to opt out of our game against Colorado State due to ongoing inequality and prejudicial issues between the players, coaches, and the USU administration.

“On Tuesday, December 8th, the Utah State University Football Leadership Council held a zoom meeting with Noelle Cockett, President of USU, and John Hartwell, the Athletic Director. The purpose of the meeting was to have a say in the search for our new head coach. During the meeting, we voiced our support for Interim Head Coach Frank Maile. In response to our comments, their primary concern was his religious and cultural background. Players, stating their diverse faiths and backgrounds, then jumped to Coach Frank Maile’s defense in treating everyone with love, equality, and fairness.

“It is not the first time issues of repeated discrimination have happened. In December 2019, our head equipment manager used a racial slur against one of our African-American teammates. After disregarding the incident, pressure resurfaced to investigate in the summer of 2020. After the investigation, the administration concluded he would continue to be employed.

“We want our message to be clear that this has nothing to do with the hiring of Coach Blake Anderson, the recently-named head coach of the program. We are sure he is an excellent coach; we look forward to meeting him and his staff. We are highlighting the ongoing problems of inequality and want to create a better future for the community of Logan and Utah State University.”

Regarding Pres. Cockett and the USU's Athletic Director, "their primary concern was his {Frank Maile's} religious and cultural background."  I'd like to better understand what was actually said.  However, per this KSL article, the Zoom meeting "was not recorded by the university."  Per this article, "USU spokesman Tim Vitale told The Herald Journal  there is no recording of the Zoom call but that school officials wish one existed because they believe it would put the situation in a different light."

Per her biography, Noelle Cockett "grew up on a beef cattle ranch in eastern Montana," got her doctorate at Oregon State, has had "a distinguished career in sheep genomics research," has been at USU since 2009, and became president of USU in January 2017.  John Hartwell spent 18 or so years in college athletics administration in the South (Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama) before moving to Utah in 2015.  He's originally from Alabama.

Regarding the "equipment manager" incident, per the above KSL article "USU hired an outside investigator to look into the incident and took disciplinary action."  The incident involved "the team’s equipment manager used racial slur against a Black player in December 2019," which resulted in the equipment manager keeping his job but being subjected to "disciplinary action." 

Back to the Des News article:

Quote

“I am devastated that my comments were interpreted as bias against anyone’s religious background,” Cockett said in a statement shared on the USU Twitter account. “Throughout my professional career and, especially, as president of USU, I have welcomed the opportunity to meet directly and often with students about their experiences.”

The university said it will use this time, instead of playing, to meet with players and hear their concerns.

“Regardless of how difficult the conversations might be in the coming days, I remain committed to giving our students a voice,” Cockett said.

The foregoing was published on December 11.  On December 12, the Des News published this: USU’s board of trustees calls for independent investigation into alleged comments made by Noelle Cockett to football team.  Some excerpts:

Quote

Utah State University’s board of trustees announced Saturday that it will retain an independent investigator to conduct a review of concerns raised by student-athletes, specifically members of the USU football team, regarding alleged discriminatory statements made by USU President Noelle Cockett earlier this week.

“We take this matter seriously and understand that facts and details matter,” said Jody Burnett, chair of the board of trustees. “The players’ statement did not provide details about what was said. As a result, we will be working with an independent investigator to understand what was said during the meeting and the context for the alleged statements. Consistent with our university culture, USU is committed to listening to students, and we will handle this matter with integrity, fairness and open minds.”

And today, 12/13, the Des News published this: Frank Maile calls for ‘thorough and independent investigation of religious, cultural and racial discrimination’ at USU.  Some excerpts:

Quote

Frank Maile issued a statement Sunday in response to the allegations of discriminatory remarks made by Utah State University president Noelle Cockett in regards to him and his viability as a candidate for the school’s recently concluded head coaching search.

“As all college football fans likely know by now, Utah State University’s final game of the season was cancelled yesterday after USU football players chose not to play in protest of something they feel very strongly about: discrimination and bias,” the statement read.

“It is my understanding — from members of the team leadership council who attended a meeting with Utah State President Noelle Cockett and Athletic Director John Hartwell — that I was not ultimately considered for the position of head coach at Utah State (my beloved alma mater) because of concerns that my religion and Pacific Islander culture would negatively impact the University’s future football program. I have twice served as interim head coach and have gone through the interview process but was not notified of a formal hiring decision until after Noelle Cockett and John Hartwell met with the team.

“As disheartened as I am to learn that this kind of religious and cultural bias exists (because I am Polynesian) at Utah State University, I am equally heart-broken for my players – many of whom are seniors who were preparing for the last game of their collegiate experience. I want to express my upmost respect and admiration for their decision to stand up for what they believe in — and I’m truly honored that they would stand up for me.

“As we move forward, it is important to me to protect both the institution and players that I love. My only hope for this painful and unfortunate situation, is that it will be a positive step in our community’s anti-discrimination journey. To accomplish this, Utah State University Trustees should demand a thorough and independent investigation of religious, cultural and racial discrimination throughout the Utah State University.”

Wow.  The gauntlet has been thrown down.  Frank Maile "is a graduate of Utah State and had been an assistant for the Aggies from 2009-13 before coaching at Vanderbilt from 2014-15. In 2016, he returned to Utah State as assistant head coach and co-defensive coordinator, a position he’s held the past five seasons."

I hope the investigation is thorough and fair.  I hope there is not a rush to condemn.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[cacheman]

From my experience with her,  this seems out of character for Dr. Cockett.  She's someone I've looked up to over the years, so this story comes as a shock.  Of course,  I support a full investigation into it.  That many players alleging the same thing warrants it, in my opinion.  I wish there was a recording. 

  

[rongo]

I sent my dad articles on this yesterday, and he said that his good friend (now a patriarch in Idaho, but a perennial state football champion coach in Idaho growing up) and Aggie alum said that there have been negative rumblings about Crockett for some time, and this is probably the spark that lit the keg. The way her PR damage control statement is worded is significant, I think. 

“Regardless of how difficult the conversations might be in the coming days, I remain committed to giving our students a voice.”

She knows that the "conversations" she will have to have "in the coming days" will be "difficult." Recorded or not, there were like 100 people on the Zoom call, and they are on the same page that she didn't just say, "Since the Mormon Church is the dominant church here, let's be extra careful about avoiding appearances of favoritism. Ditto with Polynesians." 

She is going to be facing players and coaches who heard what she said, and she knows it. This investigation will be interesting to follow. 

Southeastern Idaho, where I grew up, is Aggie country. Almost 100% Mormon, but by no means BYU territory. 

[cacheman]

15 minutes ago, rongo said:

I sent my dad articles on this yesterday, and he said that his good friend (now a patriarch in Idaho, but a perennial state football champion coach in Idaho growing up) and Aggie alum said that there have been negative rumblings about Crockett for some time, and this is probably the spark that lit the keg. The way her PR damage control statement is worded is significant, I think. 

“Regardless of how difficult the conversations might be in the coming days, I remain committed to giving our students a voice.”

She knows that the "conversations" she will have to have "in the coming days" will be "difficult." Recorded or not, there were like 100 people on the Zoom call, and they are on the same page that she didn't just say, "Since the Mormon Church is the dominant church here, let's be extra careful about avoiding appearances of favoritism. Ditto with Polynesians." 

She is going to be facing players and coaches who heard what she said, and she knows it. This investigation will be interesting to follow. 

Southeastern Idaho, where I grew up, is Aggie country. Almost 100% Mormon, but by no means BYU territory. 

Were there like 100 people on the zoom call?

[strappinglad]

There may not be an official recording of the meeting , but I would be surprised if there was not a private one or at least a partial  made by one of the Zoomers. 

[provoman]

“I am devastated that my comments were interpreted as bias against anyone’s religious background,”

 

This is what dumbfounds me, a conversation about football and potential hire of a new coach, for some reason leads the University President makes a comment about religion. A comment about religion that was taken by a majority of the team to demonstrate religious bias.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by provoman

[rongo]

52 minutes ago, cacheman said:

Were there like 100 people on the zoom call?

A college football team (80, give or take, unless it included the scout team), coaching staff, and administrators? Maybe only 90 or so --- that's why I said "like."

[cacheman]

Just now, rongo said:

A college football team (80, give or take, unless it included the scout team), coaching staff, and administrators? Maybe only 90 or so --- that's why I said "like."

From what I've seen, the only players were those on the leadership team.  I'm not sure how many that is.  I have not heard if any coaching staff being involved.  It wouldn't make sense to include them in a meeting that the students requested in order to lobby for their interim coach to be hired.  The only administrators mentioned have been the president and the AD.  Not sure if there were others. 

 

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, cacheman said:

From what I've seen, the only players were those on the leadership team.  I'm not sure how many that is.  I have not heard if any coaching staff being involved.  It wouldn't make sense to include them in a meeting that the students requested in order to lobby for their interim coach to be hired.  The only administrators mentioned have been the president and the AD.  Not sure if there were others. 

How could they poll the entire team and arrive at 3/4 saying she said she "had misgivings about a Polynesian and a Mormon," then? 

My understanding is that she was trying to be "democratic" and include "all stakeholders" (oh, how I'm sick of that buzzword). The die was already cast, though, since the Arkansas St. coach was hired immediately after. It was a sham "listening tour," for appearances only. 

What "difficult conversations" do you think she's anticipating with the investigation?

Edited December 14, 2020 by rongo

[cacheman]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

How could they poll the entire team and arrive at 3/4 saying she said she "had misgivings about a Polynesian and a Mormon," then? 

My understanding is that she was trying to be "democratic" and include "all stakeholders" (oh, how I'm sick of that buzzword). The die was already cast, though, since the Arkansas St. coach was hired immediately after. It was a sham "listening tour," for appearances only. 

What "difficult conversations" do you think she's anticipating with the investigation?

My understanding is that one of the players sent a poll out two days after the meeting.  I would be interested in seeing what it said. 

The fact of the matter is that we're don't know what was said.  I'm inclined to let the investigation run its course before making a judgement.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, cacheman said:

My understanding is that one of the players sent a poll out two days after the meeting.  I would be interested in seeing what it said. 

The fact of the matter is that we're don't know what was said.  I'm inclined to let the investigation run its course before making a judgement.

The investigation won't yield anything, barring a mea culpa or a recording that surfaces, other than "they said - she said." It is a "shot across the bow" to Crockett, and her ultimate fate might not depend on the outcome of the investigation. From what I'm hearing, many alumni and students weren't happy about a number of things prior to this. Many didn't think Anderson should have been fired (this Covid season is a wash, anyway), and many were happy with Frank Maile as an interim coach and wanted him to be the new coach. Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, if Crockett has lost the trust of her campus and the community, then it will be rough-sledding for her going forward, best-case. 

[smac97]

12 hours ago, rongo said:

The investigation won't yield anything, barring a mea culpa or a recording that surfaces, other than "they said - she said."

Oh, I don't know.  I think multiple people giving mutually corroborating statements about what she said can have some real probative value.

Quote

It is a "shot across the bow" to Crockett, and her ultimate fate might not depend on the outcome of the investigation. From what I'm hearing, many alumni and students weren't happy about a number of things prior to this. Many didn't think Anderson should have been fired (this Covid season is a wash, anyway), and many were happy with Frank Maile as an interim coach and wanted him to be the new coach. Regardless of the outcome of the investigation, if Crockett has lost the trust of her campus and the community, then it will be rough-sledding for her going forward, best-case. 

If this controversy is merely emblematic of pre-existing gripes, then I have a real problem with it being used as a pretext to get her into trouble.

On the other hand, if the allegations about what she said are substantively borne out, then I may have some concerns about the propriety of a university president harboring such race- and religion-based sentiments.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 14, 2020 by smac97

[Kenngo1969]

The woman's name is "Cockett," as in [bad example, but it will make the point], gun.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The woman's name is "Cockett," as in [bad example, but it will make the point], gun.

And apparently then not born on a mountain top in Tennessee.

[Kenngo1969]

This woman was a USU administrator for quite some time before being picked to lead the university.  One wonders, if, in fact, she has harbored any particular animus toward Latter-day Saints or toward Polynesians, how long, exactly, that has been the case.

[provoman]

50 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

This woman was a USU administrator for quite some time before being picked to lead the university.  One wonders, if, in fact, she has harbored any particular animus toward Latter-day Saints or toward Polynesians, how long, exactly, that has been the case.

I have been  trying to think of a scenario, where religion or even culture, are even mentioned during a discussion about hiring at a Public University. So to me it is either animus, or lack of understanding of laws affecting hiring or a real failure in communication.

I guess the only instance where religion or culture could be mentioned is: 

Person A: Well, I like so and so. They are a great for the position. They are also a member of XYZ Church and a Native from ABC Country
Utah President: Their religion and culture are not relevant to the consideration process.

Person B to Person C: *post meeting discussion* "Did you hear the President say the their religion and culture were not relevant?"

[smac97]

1 hour ago, provoman said:

I have been  trying to think of a scenario, where religion or even culture, are even mentioned during a discussion about hiring at a Public University.  So to me it is either animus, or lack of understanding of laws affecting hiring or a real failure in communication.

I may be able to think of such a scenario.

With all the talk about "diversity," diversity of thought and viewpoint seem to get very little attention, particularly in "woke" venues like . . . academia.  With "diversity" as a cloak/pretext to cover up bias against "religion" and/or "culture," all sorts of horrible things are said about Christians/Christianity (including Latter-day Saints) that would never be uttered in polite society about, say, Muslims/Islam.  Whether as a "religion" or "culture" or both, significant portions of the "woke" crowd have very little patience with us.  And I can't help but think that they've become too acclimated with denigrating us amongst themselves, such that they end up accidentally speaking such sentiments in public.

Did that happen here?  I don't know.  I'm currently giving Pres. Cockett the benefit of the doubt.  

Thanks,

-Smac

 

[Tacenda]

I'm sorry if this question is lame, but I'm wondering how this could hurt the president, it feels like it would hurt the football team, more than her. Unless the college will lose a lot of money over it? Or ?

[rongo]

1 minute ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sorry if this question is lame, but I'm wondering how this could hurt the president, it feels like it would hurt the football team, more than her. Unless the college will lose a lot of money over it? Or ?

The Board of Regents could choose to get rid of her, if the allegations are borne out as being serious enough. I don't think the investigation will uncover anything rising to that level, but I do think that this could be a blow to her capital and trustworthiness among the community, alumni, and current students. 

If she really did denigrate the Church and Polynesians (and that isn't knowable at this point), then I think more than just the football team might want her to step down. If people are blowing whatever she said out of proportion or trying to make something out of nothing, hopefully it will come out in the investigation (which will only consist of talking to people who were there and comparing stories, unless a recording surfaces). 

It seems to me, in my opinion, that there is too much smoke for there to have been no fire. Her PR damage control statement leads me to think that there is something to this. The question (for me) is whether the damage done to a trust relationship is enough for her ouster, or whether she will be able to repair bridges after this. We'll all just have to see what the investigation yields. 

[smac97]

26 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sorry if this question is lame, but I'm wondering how this could hurt the president, it feels like it would hurt the football team, more than her.

"This" being . . .?

26 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Unless the college will lose a lot of money over it? Or ?

The university president may lose her job over this, so it could clearly injure her.  The team forfeited their last game of the season, but they were doing poorly anyway.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

17 minutes ago, rongo said:

The Board of Regents could choose to get rid of her, if the allegations are borne out as being serious enough. I don't think the investigation will uncover anything rising to that level, but I do think that this could be a blow to her capital and trustworthiness among the community, alumni, and current students. 

One element not fully discussed in this thread (so far) is whether Frank Maile might have a viable race or religion (or both) discrimination claim against USU.  That he made a public statement about this is, to me, a hint that he is at least considering this.

No university is going to want to face a lawsuit like that.  So if this materializes (or even if it is threatened), the Board of Regents would be more inclined to fire Pres. Cockett.

17 minutes ago, rongo said:

If she really did denigrate the Church and Polynesians (and that isn't knowable at this point), then I think more than just the football team might want her to step down.

Sure.

17 minutes ago, rongo said:

If people are blowing whatever she said out of proportion or trying to make something out of nothing, hopefully it will come out in the investigation (which will only consist of talking to people who were there and comparing stories, unless a recording surfaces). 

And talking with her as well. 

17 minutes ago, rongo said:

It seems to me, in my opinion, that there is too much smoke for there to have been no fire. Her PR damage control statement leads me to think that there is something to this.

That's my surmise as well.  Time will tell, I guess.

17 minutes ago, rongo said:

The question (for me) is whether the damage done to a trust relationship is enough for her ouster, or whether she will be able to repair bridges after this. We'll all just have to see what the investigation yields. 

Agree, but Frank Maile filing or threatening a civil rights lawsuit against her and the school is, for me, a big consideration.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

https://kjzz.com/news/local/aggie-football-players-allege-anti-lds-bias-in-head-coach-search

Quote

Utah State University football players said Monday they would’ve understood if school officials passed on interim coach Frank Maile for the head coaching job if the decision was purely on his merit.

But they believe there was something else.

They were so convinced, 80 players agreed to skip their last game in protest.

Concerns originated with a Zoom call the team had with President Noelle Cockett.

Players lobbied her to keep Maile on as the head coach, noting his popularity, and the need for continuity after a period of considerable coaching turnover.

Linebackers Kevin Meitzenheimer and Nick Heninger say Cockett asked players about Maile’s LDS faith.

“What do we say to people who have concerns — or outside concerns — about hiring an LDS Mormon from Utah,” Meitzenheimer said, summarizing Cockett’s comments.

Heninger offered a similar version of what Cockett said.

“How he’s a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and how that looks outwardly for like, recruiting,” he said. “She mentioned the Polynesian culture as well.”

Cockett issued a statement over the weekend, saying she was “devastated that my comments were interpreted as bias against anyone’s religious background.”

The two linebackers say players on the call defended Maile, noting the team has a diverse range of players from a variety of backgrounds, and Maile wouldn’t struggle at all in recruiting players from all over the country.

Upset players met shortly after in the locker room at the stadium.

“You have 80 guys who heard the same thing,” Meitzenheimer said. “Eighty guys all on board, willing to not play a football game.”

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by smac97

[provoman]

20 hours ago, smac97 said:

I may be able to think of such a scenario.

With all the talk about "diversity," diversity of thought and viewpoint seem to get very little attention, particularly in "woke" venues like . . . academia.  With "diversity" as a cloak/pretext to cover up bias against "religion" and/or "culture," all sorts of horrible things are said about Christians/Christianity (including Latter-day Saints) that would never be uttered in polite society about, say, Muslims/Islam.  Whether as a "religion" or "culture" or both, significant portions of the "woke" crowd have very little patience with us.  And I can't help but think that they've become too acclimated with denigrating us amongst themselves, such that they end up accidentally speaking such sentiments in public.

Did that happen here?  I don't know.  I'm currently giving Pres. Cockett the benefit of the doubt.  

Thanks,

-Smac

 

This from kutv

"The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work.""

 

So it appears, that the President/School made religion a factor in the hiring process.

 

[smac97]

46 minutes ago, provoman said:

This from kutv

"The two, whose identities have not been made public, agreed this was the tenor of her statement: "What do we say to outside people who ask us about hiring an LDS person from Utah? We tried that, and it didn’t work.""

So it appears, that the President/School made religion a factor in the hiring process.

Also from KJZZ:

Quote

Linebackers Kevin Meitzenheimer and Nick Heninger say Cockett asked players about Maile’s LDS faith.

“What do we say to people who have concerns — or outside concerns — about hiring an LDS Mormon from Utah,” Meitzenheimer said, summarizing Cockett’s comments.

Heninger offered a similar version of what Cockett said.

“How he’s a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and how that looks outwardly for like, recruiting,” he said. “She mentioned the Polynesian culture as well.”

Yeesh.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[Kenngo1969]

I'm beginning to wonder if, at a minimum, Utah State University, aka Utah taxpayers, isn't going to have to pay Frank Maile "go away" money.  President Cockett cannot very well use some version of the, "That-isn't-exactly-what-I-said" defense when whoever represents Coach Maile has eighty witnesses lined up on the other side to testify to the contrary.  If Coach Maile is willing to settle the matter short of trial, then it would be exceedingly wise for USU's attorneys to listen.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Kenngo1969