What would be the proper way to introduce (share) a “Revelation”, should you believe that the Holy Spirit gave it to you. Also, would you do so?

[mfbukowski]

12 minutes ago, Ahab said:

It will probably come back to you later.  I call it Sometimers, since I (and apparently you too) do not have it alz the time.

 

18 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Before I write and list a few “comments and questions” about the subject of “Revelation”, I preface my remarks with a quote, from the Prophet Joesph Smith. I do so from memory, so forgive me if it is not word for word, and just a paraphrase...

”It is contrary to the economy of God, for any man to receive revelation for those in authority over him” ~Joseph Smith~ (Maybe someone could confirm this quote for me) 
 

We are a Church which believes in, and teaches it as a major tenant of our Faith, that of, “Continuing Revelation”. In addition, we teach or affirm that this happens in number of different ways. These “Revelations”, come by copious means, and too almost all (if not all), people  within the Church. Here are just a few ways, that come to mind...

1. Revelation through our living Prophet to the entire Church. 

2. Revelations shared by Apostles, gained through study, prayer, even dreams, in an effort to establish, clarity, or to uplift members, consistent with their callings as “Prophets, Seers and Revelators”. Also, when gaining a “Revelation”, or to bear witness of combined Prophetic Declaration, in the form of “Manifestos”, and “Official Declarations”, which number about five, or maybe six so far.

3. Revelations given to Priesthood leaders, in their capacity to help direct the members of their Stakes, Wards, and Priesthood Quorums.

4. Revelations given members, such as Auxiliary Presidents, Teachers, etc, to help guide them to act as a conduit of the Holy Spirit, pursuit to their respective duties.

5. Revelations given to Priesthood Fathers, as “head’s of households”, or Mother’s as “head’s of households”, in relation to their entire families, or individual members, within that family, such as for the other spouse, or the children within that family. 

6. Revelations given to all of us as individuals, directly from God to direct or own lives. 
 

This list are just a few of the examples I could think of, so for any who respond to my thread, please list your own examples. 

Now, excluding (not sure if I should) the person who speaks in a Ward meeting, if assigned, or is bearing a testimony, where they often speak of “answers to prayers”, or “understandings they gained while studying scripture”. I am not sure if this should be one of the examples, if so, feel free to address this example and that would make it example number seven.

 

Now to my question(s), as I seek input, affirmation, or guidance, as to what if anything should others, or myself do, if we (I) feel God has revealed something to us? Now I have had many revelations, were I have sought to ease the pain of another, or help someone fully mourn. These usually come in poetry, where I am able to someone put myself in their suffering, and write to them, or for them, by writing what has been reveled to me. Sometimes, well most times, this happens when a family member tells me the story, and I am able to write for those I did not know. Also, many of these same poems, go on to influence others, many years later. 
 

I have included this thread in the “Discussion Forum”, because I seek both option and wisdom. Most of all I am seeking “Doctrinal Direct”,from the many scholars here, and wisdom from the more mature members on the website. 
 

For the record, I have received many revelations, which allows me (as my “Patriarchal  Blessing” foretold) to express many revelations given me, expressed poetically, almost always for those I don’t know, or barely know about. 

This brings me to some important questions, questions that help others as well. 
 

1. If you believed you received a Revelation from God, would you attempt to write, and claim it as your own?

2. If you did put it in print, would you seek to publish it in some manner?

3. With whomever would be be permissible to share it with?

4. Are such activities discouraged, or prohibited? 

5. Is such a thing only permissible in one’s journal, only to be shared with family; posthumously? 
   
My friends, I seek your collective wisdom concerning this matter, in the thread of mine. Also, I ask if there be any here, especially those we teach doctrine and Theology at BYU, and BYU Idaho, and any other Church University. 
 

I thank any who take the time to both read and respond. All of you, I value your collective wisdom. God bless you all.

  

 

 

I notice a few are responding to a question you did not ask, and so it might be appropriate to clarify what you are looking for.

I think your question is NOT that one should not share testimonies and other spiritual events and experiences we have had.

On the other hand I think your question is about revealing to others revelations YOU have received- for THEM.   Like advice for their lives the Lord has revealed to you so that you can help them, even though you are not their bishop or otherwise "authorized" to receive revelation on their behalf.

Would you please clarify that?   Either I am confused or some others are....

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

That's probably where my wife heard it in her youth, I don't remember the details. And it was only 40 years ago?   Wow! I must be losing it! 

Bytheway didn’t start the urban myth, just possibly came up with the best form of it. Bytheway was popular for my son’s age and a little older and the ‘guy getting revelation to get married’ was big already when I was at BYU in the 70’s.  There was one guy who almost went there for me, told me he was inspired to see if our relationship might lead to marriage after his mission.  Scared me big time (so, so shy back then) as there was no suggestion of that in our history (he was an assigned FHE group member, BYU paired off apartments, I didn’t feel comfortable with at all but felt he needed my support as not a great family support).

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Bytheway didn’t start the urban myth, just possibly came up with the best form of it. Bytheway was popular for my son’s age and a little older and the ‘guy getting revelation to get married’ was big already when I was at BYU in the 70’s.  There was one guy who almost went there for me, told me he was inspired to see if our relationship might lead to marriage after his mission.  Scared me big time (so, so shy back then) as there was no suggestion of that in our history (he was an assigned FHE group member, BYU paired off apartments, I didn’t feel comfortable with at all but felt he needed my support as not a great family support).

That doesn't sound like he was saying you had some special feelings for him, or that he thought you did, but that he should see if maybe you might develop those special feelings for him if he dated you after his mission.  Also doesn't sound like he was the one you married.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, Ahab said:

That doesn't sound like he was saying you had some special feelings for him, or that he thought you did, but that he should see if maybe you might develop those special feelings for him if he dated you after his mission.  Also doesn't sound like he was the one you married.

That is why I said it came close,  it didn’t make it all the way there.  But from what else he say I think he thought I had at least tender feelings for him.

He said or did some other stuff that was stalkerish, so I cut things off pretty quickly after that.

edited to remain vague as I don’t want to embarrass him as he is undoubtedly more mature now and given how ‘small’ the community of Saints is at times, he might come across this one post...highly, highly unlikely, but I always go to the ‘what ifs’.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Calm

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is why I said it came close,  it didn’t make it all the way there.  But from what else he say I think he thought I had at least tender feelings for him.

...

Love stories are my favorite kind of stories, even in cases when it isn't all the way there.  He probably still remembers you too, as you still remember him. Not as the one that worked out but it was probably an experience that led to love with someone else eventually.  Ah, the memories, of all of the women that I had any kind of "love" encounter with, whether it was real or only something I thought might be real as I tried to find the real thing, which I eventually did.  And we who love always want it to go on forever.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Ahab

[Calm]

Can you edit your post to remove the details please.  I want to respect his privacy.  He was young, I don't hold it against him.

[Ahab]

Sure.  Just did.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

 

I notice a few are responding to a question you did not ask, and so it might be appropriate to clarify what you are looking for.

I think your question is NOT that one should not share testimonies and other spiritual events and experiences we have had.

On the other hand I think your question is about revealing to others revelations YOU have received- for THEM.   Like advice for their lives the Lord has revealed to you so that you can help them, even though you are not their bishop or otherwise "authorized" to receive revelation on their behalf.

Would you please clarify that?   Either I am confused or some others are....

 

I think I need to go back and edit something, because I have never, or would I ever do that. I was speaking of poems that family members or Church members have asked me to write something that might help someone who is grieving. Only then would I even attempt to write an uplifting poem for them, and then only after giving it to the the person who requested it. I would never be so bold, or so intrusive, as to tell someone whom did not ask for anything from me. I have neither the wisdom or the ego to ever take something like that upon myself. I would not do this, even if a Bishop or Stake President. I have so little faith in my own ability to direct my life, I would never assume to think I should do it for another. Maybe this thread had bad idea written all over it...for that I apologize. 

[mfbukowski]

58 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I think I need to go back and edit something, because I have never, or would I ever do that. I was speaking of poems that family members or Church members have asked me to write something that might help someone who is grieving. Only then would I even attempt to write an uplifting poem for them, and then only after giving it to the the person who requested it. I would never be so bold, or so intrusive, as to tell someone whom did not ask for anything from me. I have neither the wisdom or the ego to ever take something like that upon myself. I would not do this, even if a Bishop or Stake President. I have so little faith in my own ability to direct my life, I would never assume to think I should do it for another. Maybe this thread had bad idea written all over it...for that I apologize. 

No problem- I like your posts! No apologies necessary, and sorry if I misinterpreted your question.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No problem- I like your posts! No apologies necessary, and sorry if I misinterpreted your question.

No worries, I went back and took myself out of the OP. This way we can just discuss the overall idea of “Revelation”, and it’s proper role in the Church. 

[The Nehor]

I go with the classics. Get a cardboard sign with your message on it, grow a nasty beard, don’t shower for a few weeks, and preach in the streets.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I go with the classics. Get a cardboard sign with your message on it, grow a nasty beard, don’t shower for a few weeks, and preach in the streets.

I have already began, “no shave November”, so I am getting closer, to your solution. Now do I just choose a busy roadway, or set up at “Temple Square”? Or I am retired, and have a lot of time. Or could you give me good advice, as I am asking in earnest, and not looking for a laugh. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 11/5/2020 at 7:52 PM, mfbukowski said:

No problem- I like your posts! No apologies necessary, and sorry if I misinterpreted your question.

Don’t worry, it seems that unless I am writing poetry, well poetry inspired (I believe) from God, little to nothing I write is barely  understood, or horribly misunderstood. I have come to the conclusion that I should limit all posts, threads, even notes to my wife, to  no more than two or three sentences long . Even then I am walking, well writing on dangerous ground. 
 

Of course this post will probably end up with another poster, thinking my comments ar about, “milking cows”, or “how to farm crops in desert type conditions. It is clear I know little about almost anything. Also, even less about how to express myself so no matter how much I may know, I am not, nor ever will be a writer. In my last two threads, I spent little time debating the topic, and most of my time, both explaining, what I meant in print If I could write and introduction, and only included my name, nine of ten people would question if, I spelled my name correctly, and debate (after a fact check), if I was really from Atlanta, and wonder if I was really in the Army. This is, and always been a tough crowd, and by far a very well read, and educated crowd. Years ago, when there were a lot of BYU Professors here, I was told then I did not belong here. 
 

[mfbukowski]

15 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Don’t worry, it seems that unless I am writing poetry, well poetry inspired (I believe) from God, little to nothing I write is barely  understood, or horribly misunderstood. I have come to the conclusion that I should limit all posts, threads, even notes to my wife, to  no more than two or three sentences long . Even then I am walking, well writing on dangerous ground. 
 

Of course this post will probably end up with another poster, thinking my comments ar about, “milking cows”, or “how to farm crops in desert type conditions. It is clear I know little about almost anything. Also, even less about how to express myself so no matter how much I may know, I am not, nor ever will be a writer. In my last two threads, I spent little time debating the topic, and most of my time, both explaining, what I meant in print If I could write and introduction, and only included my name, nine of ten people would question if, I spelled my name correctly, and debate (after a fact check), if I was really from Atlanta, and wonder if I was really in the Army. This is, and always been a tough crowd, and by far a very well read, and educated crowd. Years ago, when there were a lot of BYU Professors here, I was told then I did not belong here. 
 

I think poetry is by far the best kind of communicative tool for spiritual matters

As I see it, since we now see through a glass darkly, we actually use poetry even for science papers, but few seem to get it.

The "sunglasses" of our sense perception prevents us from seeing anything more than other primates, and instead of being rose colored, the sunglasses we cannot remove only make things darker because we think we are seeing "reality" when in fact we might as well be some other animal which can see or hear better.

If we think what we can see is all there is, we might as well be monkeys in the trees looking for fruit

That's what our senses are built to do- keep our bodies alive and that's about it.

Edited November 9, 2020 by mfbukowski

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

29 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I think poetry is by far the best kind of communicative tool for spiritual matters

As I see it, since we now see through a glass darkly, we actually use poetry even for science papers, but few seem to get it.

The "sunglasses" of our sense perception prevents us from seeing anything more than other primates, and instead of being rose colored, the sunglasses we cannot remove only make things darker because we think we are seeing "reality" when in fact we might as well be some other animal which can see or hear better.

If we think what we can see is all there is, we might as well be monkeys in the trees looking for fruit

Maybe you are right about poetry, “in general”. But my confidence is almost non-existent, after my last three threads have been misunderstood, and upset people. I fear long posts, and edifying threads, should be left to the more intelligent members. Leave others, and myself to. Only reply in single words, or single sentences. Even then, I fear more misunderstanding. 

[Ahab]

37 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Maybe you are right about poetry, “in general”. But my confidence is almost non-existent, after my last three threads have been misunderstood, and upset people. I fear long posts, and edifying threads, should be left to the more intelligent members. Leave others, and myself to. Only reply in single words, or single sentences. Even then, I fear more misunderstanding. 

Even intelligent people who use the "right" words are often misunderstood.  As I said earlier, even our Lord was often misunderstood, as well as his prophets and apostles.  And still are often misunderstood by many. 

So stop thinking it is your fault when other people don't know what you mean when you say something, because it isn't necessarily your fault.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

6 hours ago, Ahab said:

Even intelligent people who use the "right" words are often misunderstood.  As I said earlier, even our Lord was often misunderstood, as well as his prophets and apostles.  And still are often misunderstood by many. 

So stop thinking it is your fault when other people don't know what you mean when you say something, because it isn't necessarily your fault.

You may be right, but I still feel I am completely out of my depth here, and I am spending more time explaining, and defending my posts, rather than discussing the merits of them. Even the most benign of comments, turn into serious misunderstandings. I feel it is better to retire from the field, rather then fighting for every yard, only to lose the every game. 

[Ahab]

16 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

You may be right, but I still feel I am completely out of my depth here, and I am spending more time explaining, and defending my posts, rather than discussing the merits of them. Even the most benign of comments, turn into serious misunderstandings. I feel it is better to retire from the field, rather then fighting for every yard, only to lose the every game. 

If I had that reaction to what I experience on this board I would have quit it a long long time ago.  Instead I think of my opportunities to "explain" to just be a part of having a discussion with you people who post here.  Just in case you want to listen to others, including me, rather than only share your own thoughts without any further "explanation".  I just figure this is a part of what "discussion" is all about.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

43 minutes ago, Ahab said:

If I had that reaction to what I experience on this board I would have quit it a long long time ago.  Instead I think of my opportunities to "explain" to just be a part of having a discussion with you people who post here.  Just in case you want to listen to others, including me, rather than only share your own thoughts without any further "explanation".  I just figure this is a part of what "discussion" is all about.

Good advice, but your first sentence may be the best advice. Just go, I will not be missed.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Good advice, but your first sentence may make be the best advice. Just go, I will not be missed.

I would miss you.  You have a way about you and I would miss seeing your influence here if you decided to stop posting here.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

39 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I would miss you.  You have a way about you and I would miss seeing your influence here if you decided to stop posting here.

Thank you, but most of my errors are due to fact that I can only type on an iPad. My back injuries make it nearly impossible to use a Laptop. Even when using my iPad, I have to prop it up, on my legs, and use three or four fingers, with the other hand. Which means I make many errors. However many, are from express my own opinion. 

[Ahab]

Just now, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Thank you, but most of my errors are due to fact that I can only type on an iPad. My back injuries make it nearly impossible to use a Laptop. Even when using my iPad, I have to prop it up, on my legs, and use three or four fingers, with the other hand. Which means I make many errors. However many, are from express my own opinion. 

So, you make mistakes.  Only one mortal I know has never made any.  The rest of us have made mistakes and may even make another one. No big deal.  We then simply need to do what we can to correct it and move on.

[The Nehor]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:12 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I have already began, “no shave November”, so I am getting closer, to your solution. Now do I just choose a busy roadway, or set up at “Temple Square”? Or I am retired, and have a lot of time. Or could you give me good advice, as I am asking in earnest, and not looking for a laugh. 

Don’t have any good advice on this topic, wish I did.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Don’t have any good advice on this topic, wish I did.

None? Wow, I would have thought this was the group to ask. BTW, I removed my comments about myself, so now I am only asking about “Revelation”, in general. Not what I should do, as that was a true mistake to do so. 

[Rain]

My husband is an electrical engineer.  Some of his ideas come from pure revelation.  

Neither of us have qualms about him getting paid for this.  He even has patents for some of those I think.  In most cases, if asked, he would say yes this was his work, but if asked specifically by certain people he would tell them the process of getting his revelation and then how he worked to put it into practice.  

I think you will find those who draw or paint have similar feelings.

I've had bursts of creative revelation to help in different areas of my life 

I would expect papa that you also have similar stories with your law enforcement.  Times when you were warned of danger or got a hunch to look into __________. 

It is the same with your poems.  The only difference is you don't write for a living full time so you might not recognize it.

As far as the framed pieces: 

Perhaps they came across them on the internet and liked them enough to copy and paste them.   

Perhaps they wanted them to look nice in a certain way together in a single frame so they bought both and typed them up together.

I'm doubtful that there is really any big reason why they they weren't bought copies.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Rain