Writing Mormon History: Historians and Their Books

[bearhoof]

Anyone know anything about this book? Is it really "a must-read for historians, students of history, scholars, and aspiring authors"?

[CA Steve]

The book has not yet been released so how can someone answer your question?

[Calm]

Quote

Every great book has a great backstory. Here well-known historians describe their journeys of writing books that have influenced our understanding of the Mormon past, offering an unprecedented glimpse into why they wrote these important works. Writing Mormon History is a must-read for historians, students of history, scholars, and aspiring authors. The volume’s contributors are:

Polly Aird, Will Bagley, Todd Compton, Brian Hales, Melvin Johnson, William MacKinnon, Linda King Newell, Gregory Prince, D. Michael Quinn, Craig Smith, George D. Smith, Vickie Cleverley Speek, Susan Staker, Daniel Stone, John Turner

The majority of the essays appear here for the first time.

From Amazon

I am not more than a very casual student of history, it is not really grabbing my interest.  I have a couple of favorite historians I wouldn’t mind reading, but they aren’t included. However, for people who are interested in the subject, there are noteworthy contributors that had major impacts with their work. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Calm

[JamesBYoung]

The e-book is out tomorrow.  The fifteen writers, award winners and well-reputed among their peers, describe how they wrote their works.  If anyone wants to know how Mormon history is written, this is a good book to read.  It will be the primer for classes on how to write the subject.  If any of you wish to evaluate as well as learn how to write Mormon and restoration history, this is the book.

Edited April 21, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[morgan.deane]

You've got some big names in the field so it has potential.  It also seems like one of those books you'll see in introductory survey courses. It has some red flags though that would make me avoid buying it. The way the book is described makes it sound more like some behind the scenes fluff instead of a meaningful discussion of the gritty process involved in writing a good history book. The introduction promises "unprecendented" access of this "must read" volume it sounds like one of those vanity interviews hosted by James Lipton. Of course I haven't read it yet, but you asked for my impression and I wouldn't buy the book.  

[JamesBYoung]

Thank you, morgan.deane, for your opinion.

[Damien the Leper]

On 4/20/2020 at 6:22 PM, Calm said:

From Amazon

I am not more than a very casual student of history, it is not really grabbing my interest.  I have a couple of favorite historians I wouldn’t mind reading, but they aren’t included. However, for people who are interested in the subject, there are noteworthy contributors that had major impacts with their work. 

I'm most familiar with Linda King Newell, D. Michael Quinn, Brian Hales and Todd Compton. The others I've not really heard of.

[JamesBYoung]

Newell, Quinn, Hales, and Compton highly value the product of their fellow authors in the book.  But Gerald Lund they are not.

 

[Nevo]

Not sure who is writing the dust jacket blurbs at Signature these days, but these are definitely not all "well-known" historians who've authored "great books." Several of them are quite obscure. I pay pretty close attention to Mormon History publishing and I had never heard of Craig Smith before (turns out he recently edited a collection of letters by Juanita Brooks for Signature). I shared a table once with Melvin Johnson at an MHA luncheon, otherwise I wouldn't know of him.

It's interesting that nearly all the contributors are independent historians--I think only John Turner has an academic affiliation. Most have published with Signature Books (and one owns Signature Books). A handful have professional training, but most are avocational historians (William MacKinnon, for example, is a former vice president of General Motors). And most aren't members of the Church. BYU faculty and Church History Department staff are conspicuously absent.

Also, most of these authors have already left descriptions of why they wrote their books--in the books themselves, in interviews, articles, symposium presentations, etc., so I'm not sure why this book exists. It hardly strikes me as a "must-read." That said, some of the authors are very good essayists (Staker, Turner, ...) so maybe it is worthwhile.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Nevo

[Duncan]

35 minutes ago, Nevo said:

Not sure who is writing the dust jacket blurbs at Signature these days, but these are definitely not all "well-known" historians who've authored "great books." Several of them are quite obscure. I pay pretty close attention to Mormon History publishing and I had never heard of Craig Smith before (turns out he recently edited a collection of letters by Juanita Brooks for Signature). I shared a table once with Melvin Johnson at an MHA luncheon, otherwise I wouldn't know of him.

It's interesting that nearly all the contributors are independent historians--I think only John Turner has an academic affiliation. Most have published with Signature Books (and one owns Signature Books). A handful have professional training, but most are avocational historians (William MacKinnon, for example, is a former vice president of General Motors). And most aren't members of the Church. BYU faculty and Church History Department staff are conspicuously absent.

Also, most of these authors have already left descriptions of why they wrote their books--in the books themselves, in interviews, articles, podcasts, symposium presentations, etc., so I'm not sure why this book exists. It hardly strikes me as a "must-read." That said, some of the authors are very good essayists (Staker, Turner, ...) so maybe it is worthwhile.

I was going to say that Vicki Speek wrote that one book on James J. Strang but it's been out for quite awhile now, I would hardly say she is a well known name is Mormon history circles

[Damien the Leper]

21 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

Newell, Quinn, Hales, and Compton highly value the product of their fellow authors in the book.  But Gerald Lund they are not.

 

No one should ever want to be or be like Lund.

[JamesBYoung]

Some above don't know much about the majority of the writers, meaning they value only faithful LDS history..  If Will Bagley, Linda King Newell, D. Michael Quinn, Brian Hales and Todd Compton agreed to be included with the rest, you can take that to the bank.  Speek won a MHA Best New Book Award.  Johnson has won Kofford and Smith-Pettit best book and article awards.  What the nay sayers are evidencing is that the only Mormon history is really faithful LDS history primarily, and that is simply silly.  Richard E. Bennett and Alex Baugh and Christopher Blythe and Ben Park and Casey Paul Griffiths and Matt Harris and Paul Reeve would tell you so.

An example: Dan Stone won the MHA best book award last year for the wonderful narrative of William Bickerton.  The Executive Committee and the Awards Committee certainly recognized his worth, yet in his 'Meet the Critics' with Blythe and Park and Casey Paul Griffiths, all of maybe twenty attended the session.  That demonstrates the truly narrow, parochial view of faithful LDS history readers and a lack of awareness of what the LDS historians think of their peers.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Some above don't know much about the majority of the writers, meaning they value only faithful LDS history..

Not really, it is more just not reading much history on my own but hearing about it online. I have read stuff of Bagley and Quinn among others. 
 

And accusing Nevo of only reading faithful history is laughable. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Calm

[JamesBYoung]

Go back and read what I wrote.  I am talking about the nay sayers, and I have no idea who Nevo is.

The point is that the negative comments simply reflect only their reality not that of the Mormon history community.

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Go back and read what I wrote.  I am talking about the nay sayers...

I read what you wrote and quoted it.  You didn't use just "naysayers", but people who "don't know much about the majority of the writers".

Who are the naysayers then in your view?  Nevo expressed the opinion the dust jacket was less than accurate and he didn't see it as a "must read" plus he wasn't familiar with some of the writers.  His post was the most negative in the thread, imo.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Calm

[Duncan]

42 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Some above don't know much about the majority of the writers, meaning they value only faithful LDS history..  If Will Bagley, Linda King Newell, D. Michael Quinn, Brian Hales and Todd Compton agreed to be included with the rest, you can take that to the bank.  Speek won a MHA Best New Book Award.  Johnson has won Kofford and Smith-Pettit best book and article awards.  What the nay sayers are evidencing is that the only Mormon history is really faithful LDS history primarily, and that is simply silly.  Richard E. Bennett and Alex Baugh and Christopher Blythe and Ben Park and Casey Paul Griffiths and Matt Harris and Paul Reeve would tell you so.

An example: Dan Stone won the MHA best book award last year for the wonderful narrative of William Bickerton.  The Executive Committee and the Awards Committee certainly recognized his worth, yet in his 'Meet the Critics' with Blythe and Park and Casey Paul Griffiths, all of maybe twenty attended the session.  That demonstrates the truly narrow, parochial view of faithful LDS history readers and a lack of awareness of what the LDS historians think of their peers.

 

 

Vicki Speek won her award in 2007, what has she published lately? same question for Linda King Newell (i.e it's not 1984 anymore), any books either of them written any books in the past 10 years? Matt Harris doesn't know as much as he or his shill, Rick Bennett think they know-I went toe to toe a few times and used sources both of them refused to acknowledge, whatever on Matt Harris. Place me down for wanting something that Dr. Richard Bennett, someone whom I've known since 1980, as saying what you say he is saying.

You do realize that one half of one hand of those folks even have a Doctorate in Mormon Studies? Richard Bennett is among them, to get technical John Turner isn't even a historian, he's a religion prof, history and religion are different academic disciplines

Edited April 24, 2020 by Duncan

[JamesBYoung]

I won't quibble with nay sayers.  Nevo has every right to give an opinion.  So does Duncan for that matter.  Everyone has a right to an uninformed opinion.

The history community of MHA, JWHA, USHS, and Sunstone disagrees, I believe, with the faithful history community..

Ask Barbara Jones Brown, Paul Reeve, Ben Park, Casey Paul Griffiths, etc., if those interested in Mormon history should be reading these writers.  Ask Richard Bushman if he knows who is Vickie Speek or Mel Johnson or the others.  The lack of professionalism above astounds the mind.

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[JamesBYoung]

OK, I get it.  We are dealing with the equivalent of the FAIR or FARM communities.

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, JamesBYoung said:

OK, I get it.  We are dealing with the equivalent of the FAIR or FARM communities.

except that zero of the books authors have ever spoken at FAIR, FARMS doesn't exist anymore, you know this is 2020 right? it's not 1994-keep up to date!

[JamesBYoung]

Duncan, pay attention, please.  The comment about the FAIR or FARM communities equivalents are those nay saying.  You are aware that your comments are nonsensical.  Reading how Speek wrote her book is valuable.  Or Johnson or Compton or Hales or the others.  You do know that Johnson was the only other winner of a major Mormon history award that year other than  Bushman for Rough Stone Rolling.  I think he would disagree with you.  So you are worth all of that and only your opinion.  If Bennett or Harris refused to accept your sources, better ask yourself why.  Now we are getting to the meat of it.  You were not as valued as you believe you should have been.

Edited April 24, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, Duncan said:

except that zero of the books authors have ever spoken at FAIR, FARMS doesn't exist anymore, you know this is 2020 right? it's not 1994-keep up to date!

Brian Hales has presented at FM and is a FM member.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

OK, I get it.  We are dealing with the equivalent of the FAIR or FARM communities.

Yeah...I don't think you know what you are talking about.

[JamesBYoung]

I think, Calm, that is what Brian would say about your thinking on this.

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

I think, Calm, that is what Brian would say about your thinking on this.

I highly doubt that Brian would consider Nevo uninformed.  You are making assumptions apparently about someone you know nothing about.  It is understandable that you don't know as many posters, even longtime, probably don't know Nevo well enough to know he doesn't stick solely to faithful Mormon history though he has posted more than enough on this board alone to demonstrate this over the years as well as stuff he has written elsewhere; it is your apparent belief you know enough to judge him I find faulty.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Calm

[JamesBYoung]

You all are making assumptions, the which you are unqualified to make.

I am unimpressed with the faulty argumentation above by you above and leave it at that.