Tacenda Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, bluebell said: It's not even a policy. I know so many members who do not pay on gross but on net. And I know members who pay on what's left over after bills not the entire paycheck. All of those ways are considered to be paying a full tithe by the church. To the bold... Wow, wish I'd known that. We paid on gross, and if we paid on net we paid on our tax return as well. Think of the savings or investments or vehicle or vacation or help I could have given my children (that are living w/o a home, one is in a manufactured home, one lives at home and another in an apartment, luckily two at least have a small home and townhome), had I paid on whatever was left over after bills or "increase", the original plan in the Doctrine and Covenants. Edited February 13, 2020 by Tacenda
bluebell Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, Tacenda said: To the bold... Wow, wish I'd known that. We paid on gross, and if we paid on net we paid on our tax return as well. Think of the savings or investments or vehicle or vacation or help I could have given my children (that are living w/o a home, one is in a manufactured home, one lives at home and another in an apartment, luckily two at least have a small home and townhome), had I paid on whatever was left over after bills or "increase", the original plan in the Doctrine and Covenants. The church doesn't check to see how much a person earned verses what they paid in tithing. If they say they are a full tithe payer than the bishop doesn't typically ask for proof. People can almost do whatever they want where tithing is concerned. Of course if someone claims they are paying a full tithing and they know they aren't, then the consequences will come from God. Ultimately, I think what God cares about is that you sincerely believe you have paid a full tithing to Him, not how much you've paid. 2
Tacenda Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, bluebell said: The church doesn't check to see how much a person earned verses what they paid in tithing. If they say they are a full tithe payer than the bishop doesn't typically ask for proof. People can almost do whatever they want where tithing is concerned. Of course if someone claims they are paying a full tithing and they know they aren't, then the consequences will come from God. Ultimately, I think what God cares about is that you sincerely believe you have paid a full tithing to Him, not how much you've paid. I have to differ, I don't believe we'd have gotten a temple recommend, honestly.
Calm Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I have to differ, I don't believe we'd have gotten a temple recommend, honestly. Did any of your bishops ask you about how much you earned? Mine never have. Edited February 14, 2020 by Calm 1
LoudmouthMormon Posted February 14, 2020 Author Posted February 14, 2020 25 years paying tithing. Tithing settlement every year. 7-8 bishops, in 4-5 wards in 2 different states. Half of 'em never even looked at the amounts, just asked us if we paid a full tithe. The same story for the other half, except they looked and said something like "thank you for your generous fast offering contribution". We're hardly rich, and our fast offerings are hardly large. 2
smac97 Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 KSL just published another story about this topic: Quote Latter-day Saint Charities provided about $100M in assistance in 2019, reports show By Liesl Nielsen, KSL.com | Posted - Feb. 24, 2020 at 1:22 p.m. SALT LAKE CITY — The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ humanitarian organization, Latter-day Saint Charities, provided about $100 million in assistance over the last year, according to reports from the church. The organization’s 2018 report states that Latter-day Saint Charities spent about $2.2 billion on assistance since its inception in 1985. The 2019 report says the organization has now spent about $2.3 billion in 197 countries over the last 35 years. During 2019, the organization worked in 142 countries on 3,221 projects with over 2,000 partners to serve millions of people, the report shows. The organization’s projects spanned from emergency and refugee response to maternal and newborn care, immunizations, wheelchairs, vision care and more. ... The organization’s expenditures increased dramatically between 1995 and 2009, then decreased slightly from 2005 to 2014. The charity’s expenditures then jumped again to the highest they’ve ever been between 2014 and 2019. Latter-day Saint Charities has provided about $2.3 billion in aid since its inception in 1985. (Photo: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) The report Latter-day Saint Charities releases each year is a form of “accountability” to those who have donated to the humanitarian fund “so they can see what their donations do," Sister Eubank said. ... But the funds used by Latter-day Saint Charities are only a small part of the church’s combined annual humanitarian and welfare aid expenditures, which approach $1 billion a year, the news release says. According to the 2018 and 2019 reports from Latter-day Saint Charities, the church spent about $900 million during 2019 on other humanitarian and welfare needs, including aiding the poorest members of its congregations across the world. Members donate to a fast offering fund when they fast (or refrain from eating for 24 hours) on the first Sunday of every month. They often donate the money they would have spent on the meals they skip, though many donate much more. Bishops — or leaders of local congregations — offer financial aid to needy members of their congregations using fast offering funds. But the church’s humanitarian and welfare expenditures are just a part of the church’s financial priorities. Tithing paid by members also funds 30,000 congregations and more than 200 temples across the world, aids missionaries, and subsidizes educational opportunities for hundreds of thousands of students, among other things. Thanks -Smac 2
Popular Post Buckeye Posted March 19, 2020 Popular Post Posted March 19, 2020 Resurrecting this thread. As one who was surprised to learn of the size of the church's holdings and wonder if we really needed that large of a rainy day fund, well ... the fund is now certainly much smaller than it was before and I am glad for the resources the church has to weather the storm. 5
pogi Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Buckeye said: Resurrecting this thread. As one who was surprised to learn of the size of the church's holdings and wonder if we really needed that large of a rainy day fund, well ... the fund is now certainly much smaller than it was before and I am glad for the resources the church has to weather the storm. Crazy what a couple weeks can do! 1
bluebell Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 4 hours ago, pogi said: Crazy what a couple weeks can do! A good reminder that stocks, bonds, etc. don't represent real money. They represent a number that can change moment to moment. 1
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 2:12 PM, LoudmouthMormon said: Well, let me clarify then. I've been finance clerk for half a decade. It's my honor to, month after month, pay this or that utilities bill, or medical bill, rent, storage, car payment, counselor bill, etc. I get to be a living, breathing part of Christ's church taking care of the poor and needy. It's humbling, and it fills me with joy to have a small hand in this important part of the work. I'm blessed with a horrible memory for names, so I honestly don't remember 98% of the people helped by church fast offering funds. There are a lot of them. I see the church safety net in operation, it's deeply touching sometimes. I've also witnessed attempts at fraud. I've seen entitled mentalities get offended when the bishop wouldn't pay both their new car bills. I've seen people lie to get church aid, and then not follow through on promises made. I've watched bishops agonize and pray for God to help them know if they're helping a needy person, or enabling bad behavior. I've seen them be trusting and give the benefit of the doubt, only to have following events prove their trust was misplaced. It is a fact of the human condition, that a percentage of humanity will lie to get free stuff. Bishops have common sense and the spirit to help them sort through. If the church became known for being freer with their fast offerings funds, those bishops would have an increase in newly "active" people, who are coming, not to avail themselves of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, not to put their shoulder to the wheel and do their part to forward the Kingdom of the Lord, but because there's money to be had. Does this help? I'm behind you 100%. I was a bishop and then later on the Stake audit team, and you know how fun those audits are. You see it all, and a lot of what you see is unbelievable. Attempted fraud mixed with miracles. Humanity at it's best and worst. It's like being poor Eve in the garden "Is there no other way?" There is no other way. 2
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 50 minutes ago, bluebell said: A good reminder that stocks, bonds, etc. don't represent real money. They represent a number that can change moment to moment. True of course except when it is your real money you just put in, X amount, and the next week it is X minus 20% in a "safe" investment. That's when it gets pretty real. Does anybody know where I can get a Wall Street Jounal from 2021? 2
pogi Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 47 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Does anybody know where I can get a Wall Street Jounal from 2021? They went out of business about a year ago! 1
LoudmouthMormon Posted March 19, 2020 Author Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: I was a bishop and then later on the Stake audit team, and you know how fun those audits are. You see it all, and a lot of what you see is unbelievable. Attempted fraud mixed with miracles. Humanity at it's best and worst. Hi there - I get audited by you people every 6 months! I'm glad to say the miracles to fraud ratio is very favorable in my end of the vinyard. Most of that is due to good Bishops getting good training. 2
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2020 Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: Hi there - I get audited by you people every 6 months! I'm glad to say the miracles to fraud ratio is very favorable in my end of the vinyard. Most of that is due to good Bishops getting good training. The biggest problem is usually rent receipts. Landlords typically don't give them out. But of course if there is a problem they will let you know pretty quickly. The bad guys know that and use it to their advantage. So what's a poor Bishop to do? He's got to get semi nasty about receipts. Sigh. But the landlord's still don't want to give them out. Nobody else usually cares so you make yourself a special case by asking for a receipt. Landlords don't like bothersome special cases. They want their money on time without further hassles And then they ask you why you need a receipt. You tell them you're on Church welfare. No bueno. And many of these folks do not have checking accounts. It's pure cash. Sigh. And if the auditor just lets it go that's also no bueno. Edited March 19, 2020 by mfbukowski 1
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