Sam Young Back in the News

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If I had anything to say about it, I'd leave the sexual stuff out and focus on loving thy neighbor. Ask how their lives are going and situations they've helped their fellow man. The church is heavily centered on porn and self abuse talk, IMO.

No, you are heavily centered on it and are projecting. In church you might have a lesson on the Law of Chastity once a year and even then not every year. It is almost never discussed in sacrament talks. Youth usually get one fireside every year or every other year on chastity usually given by the Bishop and the Young Women’s President. It is awkward but necessary for kids with derelict parents. In the Temple Recommend interview you are asked if you keep the Law or Chastity. Some (my Stake Presidency does this) append a parenthetical statement that this includes porn consumption. That is pretty much it.

It is like after the Prop 8 situation many people seemed to think our meetings were filled with gay bashing and that members were all up in arms about the “gay threat”when it was almost never mentioned.

What I am saying is that your opinion is objectively wrong in this case.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, alter idem said:

I think the inspired shift to a home centered worship and teaching plan can help parents to step up and take this responsibility onto themselves rather than assume church teachers and leaders will do it.

Please never allow your optimism to be crushed. It is a beautiful thing.

[clarkgoble]

3 hours ago, alter idem said:

I think the inspired shift to a home centered worship and teaching plan can help parents to step up and take this responsibility onto themselves rather than assume church teachers and leaders will do it.

While it can do that, I fear for the children of the many parents who won't do that. I think this puts a heavier responsibility on leaders, particularly of teens, to ensure they go the extra mile to teach the youth. I do worry that in 5 - 10 years as youth reach adulthood we'll have many more fall away as much out of ignorance as anything.

For some, putting the responsibility on members will lead them to step up. I confess our family scripture study has improved since the change - although it's been very hard to do in summer vacation with kids waking up late after I go to work. Hopefully we can get back to a healthy pattern when school starts up again. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by clarkgoble

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

No, you are heavily centered on it and are projecting. In church you might have a lesson on the Law of Chastity once a year and even then not every year. It is almost never discussed in sacrament talks. Youth usually get one fireside every year or every other year on chastity usually given by the Bishop and the Young Women’s President. It is awkward but necessary for kids with derelict parents. In the Temple Recommend interview you are asked if you keep the Law or Chastity. Some (my Stake Presidency does this) append a parenthetical statement that this includes porn consumption. That is pretty much it.

It is like after the Prop 8 situation many people seemed to think our meetings were filled with gay bashing and that members were all up in arms about the “gay threat”when it was almost never mentioned.

What I am saying is that your opinion is objectively wrong in this case.

Are you kidding me- we have constant talks and special Sunday school classes and youth program talks as nauseum on the law of chasitity in my ward. Our bishop does talk about Master Bation and about Pornography.  So does my BIL who is a bishop.  

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Are you kidding me- we have constant talks and special Sunday school classes and youth program talks as nauseum on the law of chasitity in my ward.

'Constant'?

I have belonged to wards and branches in dozens of locations around the world, including four different American states, and I've never experienced any such thing. The Nehor's description is exactly what I have experienced.

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 8/1/2019 at 4:43 AM, MustardSeed said:

My oldest son was not able to take sacrament for a year- bishop forgot about him ...

And you did nothing at all to remind the bishop???

[MustardSeed]

Y

12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

And you did nothing at all to remind the bishop???

Of course we finally did. 😕

Edited August 2, 2019 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

'Constant'?

I have belonged to wards and branches in dozens of locations around the world, including four different American states, and I've never experienced any such thing. The Nehor's description is exactly what I have experienced.

So I must be making stuff up. 

[MustardSeed]

Our stake fairly recently had a stern talking to In an adult stake session about questioning our bishops interventions with young men trying to go on missions.  We were told that too many parents were complaining about sanctions when in reality most parents didn’t have any idea how deep in sin their kids were and we were told to trust the process.  

We trusted too long indeed. 

Why do I feel defensive? 

Edited August 2, 2019 by MustardSeed

[Hamba Tuhan]

19 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

So I must be making stuff up. 

I have no way of knowing that. At all. But one of the benefits of a community forum is that comments from many people from many different areas -- including us non-Americans! -- help to establish both norms and outliers.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[MustardSeed]

“Ive been everywhere and I’ve never experienced any such thing” suggests disbelief. 

“Interesting.  I wonder if you might be an outlier”  identifies a possible outlier.  

IMO. 

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Ive been everywhere and I’ve never experienced any such thing” suggests disbelief. 

He didn’t say he had been everywhere, but rather in many places. At most that implies the practice is likely rare, it does not imply it doesn’t exist. 

[MustardSeed]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

He didn’t say he had been everywhere, but rather in many places. At most that implies the practice is likely rare, it does not imply it doesn’t exist. 

So you don’t think his statement implied incredulousness.  I do. We see it differently.?

should add, my statement used hyperbole to make a point.  I thought that was obvious, but I’ll apologize and retract. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by MustardSeed

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

So you don’t think his statement implied incredulousness.  I do. We see it differently.?

should add, my statement used hyperbole to make a point.  I thought that was obvious, but I’ll apologize and retract. 

I have read Hamba for quite some time now. He tends to be rather precise in what he means imo.  He has also in the past expressed awareness of how things may differ from place to place. In many ways where he lives now is very different from American posters’ experiences, so I believe he is well aware of how locations can vary and some places have rather unusual attributes.  I got the impression he was surprised, but not disbelieving. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

And you did nothing at all to remind the bishop???

Calm since you know Hamba perhaps you can interpret this for me. 

It all sounds critical to me.  Both replies. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by MustardSeed

[Calm]

Both responses sound surprised to me. I wouldn’t describe the first as critical, the above might be or might be simply bewildered that a parent said nothing for a year. Hamba is not a parent, but tends to be very proactive with the Young Men he works with and he may expect parents to be the same way in most cases.   You also come across as very proactive on this board, so keeping quiet for a year doesn’t seem very consistent with your board persona and thus is surprising, but perhaps that was one of your experiences that led you to be proactive.

I can see various possibilities from multiple sides, including your son begging you not to interfere, but to let him handle it on his own and you respecting his choice as well as just expecting or being told that ‘this’ next meeting would be the one the bishop would lift the discipline and that it would be easiest for your son not to be making waves (perhaps the Bishop was the kind to dig in when confronted) and time passing and adding up quickly. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Calm

[smac97]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

'Constant'?

I have belonged to wards and branches in dozens of locations around the world, including four different American states, and I've never experienced any such thing. The Nehor's description is exactly what I have experienced.

Ditto.

[changed]

In our ward, every dance, every camp, every youth activity turns into a conversation on appropriate clothing which leads to discussion on chastity.  There is also talk about porn, and internet use brought up quite frequently... but then... we have kids in our ward who were abused by a bishopric member who is now in jail so.... everyone is rather on edge about it...

[MustardSeed]

ok. 

[alter idem]

19 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Are you kidding me- we have constant talks and special Sunday school classes and youth program talks as nauseum on the law of chasitity in my ward. Our bishop does talk about Master Bation and about Pornography.  So does my BIL who is a bishop.  

 

I can tell you, we are not in the same ward, that's for sure.  My ward and stake rarely ever discuss law of chastity.  Pornography has never been mentioned or even alluded to in a Stake meeting(our Stake meetings are always centered on Temple work, and missionary work)  and our Bishop finally addressed the problem of pornography once in a 5th Sunday about two years ago, and never since.  It's too bad, because he did it in a very good way and was very loving and supportive in the way he addressed it. I also have to admit that I've never heard the 'm' word ever mentioned by church leaders.  I served many years in Young Women and went to many youth meetings with my three daughters over the years.  When I was young, Youth Standards night (once a year) was actually about keeping the Law of chastity, though apparently, my leaders didn't go into the detail that others may have.  I was very surprised by the Standard nights I've attended in our stake--for years that I attended they didn't address Law of Chastity at all, but talk about being examples of the Gospel to their friends and not swear.  It could be the leaders' styles--we have a stake that has the same men serving for decades, just changing positions.  I wonder if my ward/stake and your ward are two ends of the extreme.  I think maybe somewhere in the middle would be better, IMO.

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, alter idem said:

I can tell you, we are not in the same ward, that's for sure.  My ward and stake rarely ever discuss law of chastity.  Pornography has never been mentioned or even alluded to in a Stake meeting(our Stake meetings are always centered on Temple work, and missionary work)  and our Bishop finally addressed the problem of pornography once in a 5th Sunday about two years ago, and never since.  It's too bad, because he did it in a very good way and was very loving and supportive in the way he addressed it. I also have to admit that I've never heard the 'm' word ever mentioned by church leaders.  I served many years in Young Women and went to many youth meetings with my three daughters over the years.  When I was young, Youth Standards night (once a year) was actually about keeping the Law of chastity, though apparently, my leaders didn't go into the detail that others may have.  I was very surprised by the Standard nights I've attended in our stake--for years that I attended they didn't address Law of Chastity at all, but talk about being examples of the Gospel to their friends and not swear.  It could be the leaders' styles--we have a stake that has the same men serving for decades, just changing positions.  I wonder if my ward/stake and your ward are two ends of the extreme.  I think maybe somewhere in the middle would be better, IMO.

Thank you for the reasonable comparison. I agree, moderation rules. 

[alter idem]

14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Our stake fairly recently had a stern talking to In an adult stake session about questioning our bishops interventions with young men trying to go on missions.  We were told that too many parents were complaining about sanctions when in reality most parents didn’t have any idea how deep in sin their kids were and we were told to trust the process.  

We trusted too long indeed. 

Why do I feel defensive? 

Okay, so this may explain something about your particular area.  If the church leaders are seeing an inordinate amount of problems with young men preparing for missions and not being worthy or prepared, it may explain the constant talks on pornography and 'm' etc.  Leaders who they confide in may know a lot more that's going on with their sons than the sons are sharing with their parents.  It's important for them to not send missionaries out who are not prepared and if that means a period of waiting, so be it.  Parents need to be patient.  We don't want missionaries going out who have unrepentant sins they are wrestling with; it hurts their effectiveness--for themselves and for those they try to teach. In my ward, we have no missionaries out right now.  we have in the past, had one or maybe two, and the last few to serve have been Sister missionaries, so maybe it's not such a concern for my ward leaders.  You may be seeing the tip of an iceberg of problems going on with the youth in your area and your leaders are reacting to it.

[clarkgoble]

On 8/1/2019 at 1:23 PM, MustardSeed said:

Are you kidding me- we have constant talks and special Sunday school classes and youth program talks as nauseum on the law of chasitity in my ward. Our bishop does talk about Master Bation and about Pornography.  So does my BIL who is a bishop.  

This really varies region to region I suspect. Since I've left singles wards I can't recall the topic being discussed. When I taught the 16 year olds I think there was only one lesson in the manual focused on it. Although that was a few years ago. 

[smac97]

10 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

This really varies region to region I suspect. Since I've left singles wards I can't recall the topic being discussed. When I taught the 16 year olds I think there was only one lesson in the manual focused on it. Although that was a few years ago. 

Our ward has pornography addressed on occasion, but it does not seem to receive undue or inordinate amounts of attention.

There is no discussion about masturbation at all.  I think such a topic, if addressed at all in a church setting, should be very circumspect, in a confidential setting, and with the consent (implied or express) of the interviewee.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

On 7/29/2019 at 9:15 AM, smac97 said:

More (I kept ketting a "403" error):

Back to the article:

Quote

Just over a year ago, the Church released "new guidelines" allowing a parent to accompany a minor into those sessions, but Young said that change was not enough. He went on a hunger strike that lasted for weeks to protest the interviews.

Now, he has widened his work through protecteverychild.com to assure kids are safe inside religious institutions, and the march from the City and County Building to the State Capitol on Oct. 5 is part of that effort.

“We are going to be preparing for at least 5,000 people,” Young said. “We’re talking about going to the moon again. Well that’s a cool thing, but our children are even more important.”

I am curious as to how many people will turn out for this march.

Here's an update about what happened at the October 5 march:

Quote

They marched for blocks across Salt Lake City, some solemnly humming church hymns and peaceful chants that started in the front but were just getting to the beginning verse by the time the notes carried to the back of the massive crowd.

“We’ll love one another and never dissemble, but cease to do evil and ever be one,” a few sang.

The nearly 800 people — mostly members or former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — walked to the Utah Capitol on Saturday, on the first day of General Conference weekend, in protest. They passed by the faith’s iconic Salt Lake Temple on their way but didn’t stop. Their goal, they said, was more important.

They were here to talk about child abuse, particularly in the LDS Church but also across all faiths, and to raise awareness in hopes of putting an end to it.

“Dear prophet, you need to stop the molesters,” pleaded Christina Freeman, who was raised in a Latter-day Saint household and abused, she said, by a family member. Freeman, now 31, said she told her bishop, but he did little to stop the assaults.

“I was raised to stand for truth and righteousness,” she added to cheers from those around her.

Kinda weird that Ms. Freeman has aligned herself with Sam Young, who has been characterizing all bishops as presumptive perverts and child molesters (not unlike how some on this board are doing, even now).

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 7, 2019 by smac97