bluebell Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 13 hours ago, Storm Rider said: Though humans have an innate knack for being stiffnecked and full of pride, I do think that at this particular juncture in time that the membership is going through a period of stiffneckedness. This is evident by the numbers of individuals that have rejected the guidance of the prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ for the past 30 some years. It is evident that there is not a desire to listen, contemplate, and seek the Holy Spirit; rather we lean unto our own extremely limited understanding and consciously fight against God and his representatives. This is easily seen in those who fight against the Church and its leaders for their stand on the human family, the role of motherhood and fatherhood within the bounds that the Lord has set, human sexuality, and the current changes proposed. The Church's positions are in direct conflict with society and the innumerable agendas pushed on the people by the gay activists, feminists, and a host of other groups that have a single message and each of them lead disciples of Christ away from the gospel. I do think that we have to acknowledge that as a church we probably aren't any less prone to the pride cycle and wickedness than church members in the BOM were.
bluebell Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I suspect most Saints who humbly receive the word of the Lord through His prophets don't post about it on the internet. As studies have shown, online forums are mostly megaphones for malcontents. I think one of the keys is daily immersion in the Book of Mormon so that we can recognise when we are starting to look or sound like prideful Nephites. It's a constant challenge that requires serious vigilance. I think you are probably right.
bluebell Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 11 hours ago, Duncan said: I don't know if it's stiffneckedness but what do you say to people who don't think they can change and God has given up or cancelled blessings to them because of whatever they think they can't change? i've talked to people that won't believe that God even loves or cares for them anymore because of what they have done or are doing I agree, I don't think that's stiffneckedness and I agree that it's also really hard to know what to say to people who doubt their self worth and who don't feel loved by God. I don't know what the answer is. 1
bluebell Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, halconero said: I think we are. I fully expext contention within the church to reach a crescendo prior to the establishment of the literal Zion. I wonder if most of us theoretically expect such a thing, but are not at all willing to consider that it could begin in our day and that we individually could actually be on the wrong side of the contention. I know I don't like to consider that. But at the same time, no one ever thinks they are the bad guy in the story, even though sometimes they really are. 1
halconero Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, bluebell said: I wonder if most of us theoretically expect such a thing, but are not at all willing to consider that it could begin in our day and that we individually could actually be on the wrong side of the contention. I know I don't like to consider that. But at the same time, no one ever thinks they are the bad guy in the story, even though sometimes they really are. Interestingly, I’ve had a number of conversations with people who’ve said they aren’t sure they’re good enough to “make it.” Barring mental health issues, I think a “Lord is it I?” mentality isn’t the worst thing in the world when it comes to these matters. From a macro level view I see Satan finding more ways to increase contention among the members across the spectrum of issues. I’ve seen plenty of anger towards the church’s attitude on immigration and refugees, and plenty on the church’s stance on parenthood and marriage. I don’t see this becoming better any time soon.
bluebell Posted October 8, 2018 Author Posted October 8, 2018 1 minute ago, halconero said: Interestingly, I’ve had a number of conversations with people who’ve said they aren’t sure they’re good enough to “make it.” Barring mental health issues, I think a “Lord is it I?” mentality isn’t the worst thing in the world when it comes to these matters. From a macro level view I see Satan finding more ways to increase contention among the members across the spectrum of issues. I’ve seen plenty of anger towards the church’s attitude on immigration and refugees, and plenty on the church’s stance on parenthood and marriage. I don’t see this becoming better any time soon. I think most of us could really benefit from a "Lord, is it I" experience, because sometimes yes, it's going to be us. 1
Gray Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Well, we are all a bunch of exmormons now, so there's that 3
halconero Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, bluebell said: I think most of us could really benefit from a "Lord, is it I" experience, because sometimes yes, it's going to be us. Agreed. It allows the Lord to provide course correction, or comfort that they’re on the right track. Both are good promptings to receive. It’s a good question to ask within reason. 1
Storm Rider Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I do think that we have to acknowledge that as a church we probably aren't any less prone to the pride cycle and wickedness than church members in the BOM were. I agree - I think we are every bit as human as the humans in every period of history. There are times when humans shine as the result of great leaders and as a community, a society choose well and at other times the exact opposite - weak leaders and weak people choose poorly. 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 17 hours ago, SteveO said: Here’s what my sister just texted me: “Ok so [my husband and I] were just discussing conference and we both thought it was kinda a buzz kill. Like I’m not really uplifted. I feel awful that so many peoples lives clearly are awful, and they’re just trying to get through life. Conference seemed to be a plea for the beaten down and downtrodden to not give up. I dunno. I feel kinda down because of it”. I kind of thought the same. The theme of conference definitely seemed to be trials and difficulties in our personal lives and bringing them to the Savior. I got the impression that people are just getting worn out. Maybe people want the answer Naaman wanted to hear, instead of just washing in the Jordan River seven times. I think the frustration is just taking the form of a “stiff neck” that the answer is what it’s always been: submitting our will to the Lord’s and bringing our burden to the Savior, and not getting the more sensational answer they were wanting to hear. I wasn’t feeling very inspired from conference over the weekend. I think it was mostly due to the head cold I’m fighting. I started listening to it again today and the Spirit has been powerful. as for the OP, I think we are a very stiff necked people. I know I noticed a number of things I have to change in my life. I’m going to do my best to change those things
Avatar4321 Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Gray said: Well, we are all a bunch of exmormons now, so there's that Ok that’s funny
stemelbow Posted October 8, 2018 Posted October 8, 2018 Hearing someone audibly say stiff-necked is ridiculous outside of Church I guess. "he's gotten all stiff-necked because he doesn't think God cares if we pronounce the name of the Church in long form all the time". Almost silly sounding to me. Maybe it's far more stiff-necked to accept the strict naming guide as some sort of prophetic guidance or command.
SettingDogStar Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 I know a lot of people aren't huge fans of Hugh Nibley's concept of Zion in "Approaching Zion" but I think it provides a really good view into this issue. From my understanding the church has been under condemnation since Year 2 (not that that has stopped us from receiving revelation) and it hasn't been lifted. From the scriptures it seems The Lord told the saints that they weren't appreciating the Book of Mormon and the new revelations like that should, and I really think this is still the case today. We have many members that are really good about reading and digging into the scriptures but I seriously think we have a LOT of work to do at getting the basics mastered before anything "big" comes to the church again. Of course I'm not excluded from this, I forget to read my scriptures and pray more then I'd like to admit..and with a temple only 45mins away I have no real excuse not to go very frequently huh? haha
Yirgacheffe Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/7/2018 at 6:30 PM, bluebell said: I've been reading different boards and groups on the internet and while I've read many (hundreds?) of posts on people angry about the things that the Prophet and apostles taught and how the prophets are wrong and shouldn't have taught what they did, I haven't read anyone who said that they need to repent and change their beliefs to more closely align with the teachings at conference (they could be out there, I just haven't seen them). It makes me wonder, how can we know if we are becoming stiff-necked and unteachable, like the members of the church in the BOM became? (I don't want this thread to become about labeling others as stiff necked, I want to discuss the principle in general and not use it as an excuse to be self-righteous). I have no idea what "stiff necked" supposed to mean but I will say my family's experience camping for a week at Nauvoo State Park found a cold and unpleasant people. We camped a lot when they were little, and they have two indelible memories, one was a couple who came over Easter morning and gave each of my kids a large stuffed animal, a bit of candy and palms, not the little kind of palms you see folded into shapes, but those palms at the end of a big stick like something out of a Cleopatra movie and the palms came out of that Easter morning as the most treasured thing. The other memory is Nauvoo, where people wouldn't even say hello and in the case of one family pulled their children away and placed themselves between their kids and my grade school kids. All I guess because tank tops were present and coffee was brewed in the morning. As I said we camped a lot, one big camping trip, with the rest of vacation time broken down into extended week end camping trips, many of them over the years, Nauvoo stands out not only for the cold reception over all but as the only camping trip we don't have a pictures of our kids with the friends them made while there. Our children were pretty young at the time and attributed the meanness to "people from Utah" since all but 3 license plates (one ours) were from Utah, I left it at that but when my oldest took A/P history the pieces fell in place and they now have a poor view of members of your church and people from Utah. You all hurt my children when they were little, 5, 7, 10 they had no experience they could fall back on to understand it, they were just hurt for 10 days. On our way home my seven year old said "well at least the toads liked us" toads are the happy legend my DH manufactured for my kids after that trip.
RevTestament Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 31 minutes ago, Yirgacheffe said: I have no idea what "stiff necked" supposed to mean but I will say my family's experience camping for a week at Nauvoo State Park found a cold and unpleasant people. We camped a lot when they were little, and they have two indelible memories, one was a couple who came over Easter morning and gave each of my kids a large stuffed animal, a bit of candy and palms, not the little kind of palms you see folded into shapes, but those palms at the end of a big stick like something out of a Cleopatra movie and the palms came out of that Easter morning as the most treasured thing. The other memory is Nauvoo, where people wouldn't even say hello and in the case of one family pulled their children away and placed themselves between their kids and my grade school kids. All I guess because tank tops were present and coffee was brewed in the morning. As I said we camped a lot, one big camping trip, with the rest of vacation time broken down into extended week end camping trips, many of them over the years, Nauvoo stands out not only for the cold reception over all but as the only camping trip we don't have a pictures of our kids with the friends them made while there. Our children were pretty young at the time and attributed the meanness to "people from Utah" since all but 3 license plates (one ours) were from Utah, I left it at that but when my oldest took A/P history the pieces fell in place and they now have a poor view of members of your church and people from Utah. You all hurt my children when they were little, 5, 7, 10 they had no experience they could fall back on to understand it, they were just hurt for 10 days. On our way home my seven year old said "well at least the toads liked us" toads are the happy legend my DH manufactured for my kids after that trip. Bad first impression. So sorry to hear that. Sometimes emphasis on the external things overshadows the important inner things of the spirit. My kids didn't have a lot of Mormon playmates from our local wards in Utah. More from school or just from the neighborhood. And we were completely observant LDS.
bluebell Posted October 9, 2018 Author Posted October 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said: I have no idea what "stiff necked" supposed to mean but I will say my family's experience camping for a week at Nauvoo State Park found a cold and unpleasant people. We camped a lot when they were little, and they have two indelible memories, one was a couple who came over Easter morning and gave each of my kids a large stuffed animal, a bit of candy and palms, not the little kind of palms you see folded into shapes, but those palms at the end of a big stick like something out of a Cleopatra movie and the palms came out of that Easter morning as the most treasured thing. The other memory is Nauvoo, where people wouldn't even say hello and in the case of one family pulled their children away and placed themselves between their kids and my grade school kids. All I guess because tank tops were present and coffee was brewed in the morning. As I said we camped a lot, one big camping trip, with the rest of vacation time broken down into extended week end camping trips, many of them over the years, Nauvoo stands out not only for the cold reception over all but as the only camping trip we don't have a pictures of our kids with the friends them made while there. Our children were pretty young at the time and attributed the meanness to "people from Utah" since all but 3 license plates (one ours) were from Utah, I left it at that but when my oldest took A/P history the pieces fell in place and they now have a poor view of members of your church and people from Utah. You all hurt my children when they were little, 5, 7, 10 they had no experience they could fall back on to understand it, they were just hurt for 10 days. On our way home my seven year old said "well at least the toads liked us" toads are the happy legend my DH manufactured for my kids after that trip. Nauvoo has hardly any members and even after all these years the locals are still not known for being friendly to Mormons. I was there in the late 90s (so i'm sure it's changed) and it was one of the least friendly places that I've ever traveled too. And no, none of us hurt your children. None of us were there. 2
Rain Posted October 9, 2018 Posted October 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Yirgacheffe said: I have no idea what "stiff necked" supposed to mean but I will say my family's experience camping for a week at Nauvoo State Park found a cold and unpleasant people. We camped a lot when they were little, and they have two indelible memories, one was a couple who came over Easter morning and gave each of my kids a large stuffed animal, a bit of candy and palms, not the little kind of palms you see folded into shapes, but those palms at the end of a big stick like something out of a Cleopatra movie and the palms came out of that Easter morning as the most treasured thing. The other memory is Nauvoo, where people wouldn't even say hello and in the case of one family pulled their children away and placed themselves between their kids and my grade school kids. All I guess because tank tops were present and coffee was brewed in the morning. As I said we camped a lot, one big camping trip, with the rest of vacation time broken down into extended week end camping trips, many of them over the years, Nauvoo stands out not only for the cold reception over all but as the only camping trip we don't have a pictures of our kids with the friends them made while there. Our children were pretty young at the time and attributed the meanness to "people from Utah" since all but 3 license plates (one ours) were from Utah, I left it at that but when my oldest took A/P history the pieces fell in place and they now have a poor view of members of your church and people from Utah. You all hurt my children when they were little, 5, 7, 10 they had no experience they could fall back on to understand it, they were just hurt for 10 days. On our way home my seven year old said "well at least the toads liked us" toads are the happy legend my DH manufactured for my kids after that trip. I'm sorry you felt unwelcomed. Those kind of differences in experiences really stand out.
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