10THAmendment Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The point of the I’m a Mormon campaign was never to get people to call it “the Mormon Church”, as you falsely asserted. The Church leaders have long disapproved of that even while they tolerated members of the Church being called Mormons. There is a distinction there that you appear to be having trouble recognizing. We've read different church publications then. Mormon Newsroom would always use "Mormon Church" in their reporting.
rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 56 minutes ago, RevTestament said: Back on page 11 I requested another poster to stay on topic, which from the OP is: How do you plan to follow Pres. Nelson's admonition? If you are not an LDS Christian, what do you think of the new emphasis not to be labeled "a Mormon"? He chose to bow out of the discussion apparently having little or nothing positive to contribute. I have allowed some to express their concerns with following Pres Nelson's directives, and appreciate their sincere concerns, but the discussion has continued to devolve into more of a cynical attack and jibes. I did respond to your question earlier. In my experience here, it is rare for a thread to stay on the OP-defined topic for more than a few pages. It happens to my threads as well. The best you can do, if wanting to keep your thread on topic, is continue to revisit your question in the context of ongoing discussion.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Gray said: We can honor Mormon without improperly calling the Church after his name instead of Jesus Christ. In fact, if Mormon were around today, I feel certain he would strongly condemn the practice of calling the Church after him instead of Christ. In short, he would agree with President Nelson. 2
ALarson Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The point of the I’m a Mormon campaign was never to get people to call it “the Mormon Church”, as you falsely asserted. I'm not sure why you're in such denial over this! There's a change being enforced here and we should just accept it and try to adhere to our current Prophet's request. But for sure, this was not really emphasized in the past (although some did speak about it....just not as strenuously as Pres. Nelson has and they didn't feel as strongly as he obviously feels regarding it). Pres. Nelson does not want us identifying as Mormons or calling ourselves Mormons....do you disagree? But if whoever approved of that campaign (church leaders) had felt as strongly as our current Prophet feels about this, the campaign would have been called "I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" since that is very definitely the name he wants us to be identified by and the name he wants to make familiar (rather than saying "I'm a Mormon"). It would be counterproductive to do otherwise and it did promote the usage of the name Mormon. Would this campaign be approved today? I say "No!!!". Edited October 11, 2018 by ALarson
rongo Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, 10THAmendment said: We've read different church publications then. Mormon Newsroom would always use "Mormon Church" in their reporting. I doubt you could find one instance of the Church using "Mormon Church" in any of its newsroom stories, or whatever. And that is pre-President Nelson, too. 2
rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Again, the point of the campaign was not to promote the name “Mormon.” Do you have a reference for that? Whether it was the point of not, the campaign DID promot the name "Mormon". As did many other media efforts by the church: Mormon.org, Meet the Mormons, Mormon Newsroom, Mormon Helping Hands, and all of the social media channels with the Mormon name on them. Now, each of those efforts had specific goals, I'm confident, that do not tie specifically to the name Mormon but they all still promote the name Mormon. 12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: As often as you deliberately spread disinformation, I can correct you. Why don’t you just stop the pointless exercise and save us both the bother? You are the one spreading disinformation. And you haven't corrected me yet. 3
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, 10THAmendment said: We've read different church publications then. Mormon Newsroom would always use "Mormon Church" in their reporting. CFR.** Show us one instance in which “Newsroom” called it “the Mormon Church.” On the contrary, “Newsroom” for many years has carried a boilerplate style guide explicitly asking journalists and others NOT to call it “the Mormon church.” ** In case you are new here, CFR means “call for references.” It means you have to document a claim or assertion or withdraw it. It’s in the board guidelines that you must agree to as a condition for posting on this board. 1
rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 According to @Scott Lloyd all of the advertising below did not promote calling ourselves Mormons. I'd like someone to explain what "I'm a Mormon" means if it isn't calling ourselves Mormon. 4
Gray Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: We can honor Mormon without improperly calling the Church after his name instead of Jesus Christ. In fact, if Mormon were around today, I feel certain he would strongly condemn the practice of calling the Church after him instead of Christ. In short, he would agree with President Nelson. Why would he agree with President Nelson as opposed to President Hinckley? 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, ALarson said: I'm not sure why you're in such denial over this! There's a change being enforced here and we should just accept it and try to adhere to our current Prophet's request. But for sure, this was not really emphasized in the past (although some did speak about it....just not as strenuously as Pres. Nelson has and they didn't feel as strongly as he obviously feels regarding it). Pres. Nelson does not want us identifying as Mormons or calling ourselves Mormons....do you disagree? But if whoever approved of that campaign (church leaders) had felt as strongly as our current Prophet feels about this, the campaign would have been called "I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" since that is very definitely the name he wants us to be identified by and the name he wants to make familiar (rather than saying "I'm a Mormon"). It would be counterproductive to do otherwise and it did promote the usage of the name Mormon. Would this campaign be approved today? I say "No!!!". The injunction not to drop the name of Christ from the name of the Church has been in place for many years and has been reiterated from time to time. I myself have highlighted it on this board when M. Russell Ballard has given conference talks on it. I have gotten pushback here when I have done so, but I have remained steadfast. I even wrote a Church News editorial about it not too long ago. I feel somewhat vindicated by President Nelson’s recent emphasis. I agree that the injunction for us to avoid calling ourselves Mormons is new. I think that may be due in part to the fact that past instruction regarding using the proper name of the Church has been widely ignored or dismissed as inconsequential. The Lord is telling us now that He means business. At any rate, I accept President Nelson’s word that the Lord has “impressed” this upon his mind.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, rockpond said: According to @Scott Lloyd all of the advertising below did not promote calling ourselves Mormons. I'd like someone to explain what "I'm a Mormon" means if it isn't calling ourselves Mormon. The point of the campaign was not “to get us to call ourselves Mormons.” The point was to present a positive image of those who were already being called Mormons.
The Nehor Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 We are going to need a new nickname. The name is too long. Christian is taken. Jesuit is taken. How about Jesusian (also taken) except we use the hispanic pronunciation: Hay-sussian. Nah, too derivative. Or we can focus on our restorationism. I am a RestoraChristian. RestoraChrist? I like that one. I am a RestoraChrist.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, Gray said: Why would he agree with President Nelson as opposed to President Hinckley? Your question is based on a false premise. President Nelson and President Hinckley did not disagree.
Gray Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, rongo said: I doubt you could find one instance of the Church using "Mormon Church" in any of its newsroom stories, or whatever. And that is pre-President Nelson, too. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/-mormons-and-polygamy Quote The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — often referred to as the “Mormon Church” — has repeatedly asked journalists to make clearer distinctions between the 13-million-member worldwide Church and polygamist groups in Utah and surrounding states. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/transcript-elder-jorg-klebingat-speech-at-the-congress-of-leaders-of-world-and-traditional-religions Quote The founding years of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also referred to as the Mormon Church, today comprising over 15 million members in 176 nations and territories, saw quite the opposite of peace, security, and harmony. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-seeks-to-address-public-confusion-over-texas-polygamy-group Quote More than a third of those surveyed (36 percent) erroneously thought that the Texas compound was part of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or "Mormon Church" based in Salt Lake City https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormons-continue-aid-for-sandy-disaster-into-new-year Quote During the six-week-long cleanup effort, volunteers traveled from as far as Canada, New Hampshire and Virginia. Thousands of volunteers from neighboring states even spent the night in local Mormon church buildings over the Thanksgiving weekend in order to spend more time assisting with recovery efforts. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: We are going to need a new nickname. The name is too long. Christian is taken. Jesuit is taken. How about Jesusian (also taken) except we use the hispanic pronunciation: Hay-sussian. Nah, too derivative. Or we can focus on our restorationism. I am a RestoraChristian. RestoraChrist? I like that one. I am a RestoraChrist. Why do we need a new nickname?
ALarson Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 I guess this is making the rounds on FaceBook (it was emailed to me by a friend.....I don't have a FaceBook page). I don't like the title of the video, but it is interesting to hear President Hinckley's words vs. President Nelson's. I am making every effort to adhere to this request by our Prophet, but to be honest, I doubt it will catch on for those who are not active members (and even many of them will continue using the word Mormon or Mormons as an identity, IMO). From Youtube: 2
Gray Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Your question is based on a false premise. President Nelson and President Hinckley did not disagree. If you read President Nelson's talk carefully, it's a pretty direct refutation of many of President Hinckley's statements on the subject decades ago. 1
rongo Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Gray said: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/-mormons-and-polygamy https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/transcript-elder-jorg-klebingat-speech-at-the-congress-of-leaders-of-world-and-traditional-religions https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-seeks-to-address-public-confusion-over-texas-polygamy-group https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormons-continue-aid-for-sandy-disaster-into-new-year Thank you! I stand corrected. We weren't even following our own style guide at those times (wisely so, in my view). 2
Gray Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: We are going to need a new nickname. The name is too long. Christian is taken. Jesuit is taken. How about Jesusian (also taken) except we use the hispanic pronunciation: Hay-sussian. Nah, too derivative. Or we can focus on our restorationism. I am a RestoraChristian. RestoraChrist? I like that one. I am a RestoraChrist. Christologists.
Gray Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Just now, rongo said: Thank you! I stand corrected. We weren't even following our own style guide at those times (wisely so, in my view). I was just curious. I wasn't sure what I would find. Edited October 11, 2018 by Gray
ALarson Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Your question is based on a false premise. President Nelson and President Hinckley did not disagree. Watch the video I just posted. I found it interesting and I really do believe they did disagree on at least some things regarding this issue. President Hinckley most definitely did not seem to mind being called a Mormon and even praised that name. But it's definitely not the first time that Prophets have not fully agreed on a topic. Edited October 11, 2018 by ALarson 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) How about instead of murmuring and balking we just do what we’ve been asked to do? the Lord said if we would do the doctrine we will know whether it’s from the Father or not. So let’s do it and find out. whats the worst that happens? More people recognize the real name of the Church? Edited October 12, 2018 by Avatar4321 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gray said: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/-mormons-and-polygamy https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/transcript-elder-jorg-klebingat-speech-at-the-congress-of-leaders-of-world-and-traditional-religions https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-seeks-to-address-public-confusion-over-texas-polygamy-group https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormons-continue-aid-for-sandy-disaster-into-new-year I note that in each of these instances, the proper name of the Church was given with “Mormon church” provided as an explanatory aside so that people would better understand what church was being referenced.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gray said: If you read President Nelson's talk carefully, it's a pretty direct refutation of many of President Hinckley's statements on the subject decades ago. I’ve read both talks, and I quite disagree. President Hinckley never encouraged people to call it “the Mormon church” instead of the Church of Jesus Christ.
rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The point of the campaign was not “to get us to call ourselves Mormons.” The point was to present a positive image of those who were already being called Mormons. I didn't say that it was "to get us to call ourselves Mormons" so I am not sure who/what you are quoting there. But, the campaign does call us Mormons (thus I'm a Mormon). And the campaign obviously paid a great deal of money to have images/video of members saying "I'm a Mormon". I am not disagreeing with your ancillary point that many leaders throughout the past have asked us to use the full name of the Church and some have even discouraged the use of the identifier "Mormon". However... Others have not: President Hinckley, for example. And the I'm a Mormon campaign that was run under President Monson was certainly not discouraging the use of the Mormon nickname. In fact, the campaign encouraged its use (whether that was the goal or not). So, the issue for me is why and how a current prophet can call something a victory for Satan and offensive to the Lord when the previous prophet ran a campaign encouraging that very victory/offense. That was the essence of my previous questions wondering why the Lord wouldn't tell President Monson the problems with the I'm a Mormon campaign (along with Mormon Helping Hands, Meet the Mormons, Mormon Newsroom, etc). And I am wondering if the Q12 and FP back in 2011 were all united on these decisions. 1
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