Denson interrupts Bishop's home ward testimony meeting

[provoman]

5 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

I have no idea what it means. But if you want to ignore that and listen to her then you might change your mind.  

The first few words are "Burn It The @&=÷ Down"

 

 

[Oliblish]

18 minutes ago, provoman said:

The first few words are "Burn It The @&=÷ Down"

 

 

with truth

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Thank you. I watched all of this. McCraney was pretty fair. Totally disagreed with the first couple minutes!

Here's a quick summary of the interview between McKenna Denson and Shawn McCraney:

Summary of “Heart of the Matter” Interview (Shawn McCraney)

1.       They started with a “free association” exercise where he would give her a word, and she would give three-word responses.

2.       He wanted to start with a highly-detailed summary of her youth.  She did not seem very comfortable with that, but she proceeded.

3.       She was born in New Jersey, grew up in Reno.

4.       Her stepfather was “violently sexually abusive” to her and her older sister.  She thinks her stepfather was “in love” with her older sister and hated her (Ms. Denson) and her younger brother.  The older sister was a “pleaser.”

5.       She had wonderful grandparents.  Her parents kept her away from them.

6.       Her mother was not strong.  She was a “doormat.”

7.       Her biological father lived in New Jersey, then Florida.  Visited Ms. Denson when she was in 5^th grade for a few days.  Stepfather, to spite the biological father, made eggplant (which he knew bio dad hated).

8.       Her parents are deceased.  Sister is still alive, not close to her at all.  Or to brother.

9.       Stepfather also molested a girl across the street.

10.   Mother was aware of abuse, ignored it / put up with it.  Sometimes she held her (Ms. Denson’s) hand during molestation.  Mother vacillated afterwards, either denied abuse happened, or said it wasn’t that bad.

11.   In 4^th grade, she was sick, died on the table.  Had an NDE (floating above her body, saw instruments, saw her parents crying, saw parents go to “Cry Room”).  She sensed his self-hatred for a moment, helped her forgive her stepfather. 

12.   Abuse continued past 4^th grade (stopped for a few weeks).

13.   Mother later got into a lesbian relationship with “Susie,” ran away and moved to Colorado.  Susie had 2 kids that went with them.  Ms. Denson worked at McDonald’s, stole food from there.  Susie was horrible.

14.   Then moved back to Reno.  Ms. Denson and mother moved in with grandparents, her sister moved back with step-father.

15.   Ms. Denson says her sister had a baby strongly hints that the baby was the product of incest (“it’s debateable”).  Baby given up for adoption.

16.   Moved out in high school (16), worked in a hospital, got her own apartment, finished high school.  She enjoyed this (“I was free”).

17.   While in high school, met some LDS kids (teacher mocked them).  This made me curious about them.  Took missionary lessons.  I appreciated they certitude of their convictions.

18.   Snuck to church.

19.   Baptized in Reno at 16.  Very devoted.  Wanted to serve mission, wanted to get married in the temple.

20.   She said the ward mission leader interviewed her in a private room, asked her if she masturbated and had orgasms. 

21.   McCraney suggests that *some* one-on-one interviews can be beneficial.  Ms. Denson doesn’t agree.  She thinks that masturbation is normal, healthy, sexual behavior.  They go back and forth about this.

22.   During this time she felt peace and joy safety and love as a member.

23.   She was dating a guy, former cop, then working security.  She said he raped her in a “date rape” scenario, moved to Huntington Beach, California, gave up baby for adoption through LDS Family Services.  She was 17.  It was a “date rape but…”  She says she has a “real hard time throwing all the blame on him.”  “I know I gave mixed signals, because part of me wanted to, but I really didn’t.  And I wasn’t ready.  And I didn’t want to be ready.  So for me it was like, what part do I own?  Because I want to own the part that I did.  So I struggle with that, I still struggle with that.  Did I give him mixed signals enough to make him think it was okay?  Is he someone that would normally do that?  I don’t know, I don’t know him that well. … I don’t think he, even in his mind, still today, would say ‘Yeah, I raped her,’ or ‘Yeah, I did that without consent.’  Even though he knows he did that without consent.  I don’t think he would call it rape.  I didn’t give consent.  I didn’t want that intimacy.  I wanted to go on a mission.  That’s where every part of my life was.  But I have to be generous in that, because…”

24.   They continue to have a discussion about this.

25.   Vern Curtis and Phyllis Curtis were in her ward in Huntington Beach.  Weeks after the adoption, Vern approached her, told her that his wife had prayed and asked God to let her (Phyllis) carry her (Ms. Denson’s) pain of giving up the daughter for adoption.  Vern told her that Phyllis had been in bead for weeks, enduring the pain.  Ms. Denson believes that the Lord let Phyllis carry her (Ms. Denson’s) pain of giving up the daughter.

26.   She is in “spiritual freefall” at present.  She’s had three NDEs.  At times she feels comfort, but at other times, when she’s out “in the world” and sees bad things going on, she starts to have doubts.

27.   Named her baby (“Amanda,” who is now 35), but adopted parents named baby Jessica.  Her full name is Jessica Lowder (sp?).  She (Ms. Denson) has three other daughters, Nicole (29), Amanda (27), and Emily (13).  It was a closed adoption. 

28.   Moved to Torrance, worked for a dentist in her ward (Don Markham).  Was called to serve in Columbia.  I was 21 when I went into the MTC.

29.   Part 2 to continue next week.

Thanks,

-Smac

EDIT TO ADD: This is the best public statement so far, perhaps to some extent because of Shaun McCraney.  He kept the discussion grounded, and he raised a few pointed issues (as opposed to Consig's fawning silliness).

Edited September 26, 2018 by smac97

[smac97]

Here's what looks like another interview with Ms. Denson:

https://www.mosaicpodcast.com/episodes/mormon-me-too-part-1-the-first-law-of-heaven

Thanks,

-Smac

[Abulafia]

1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

Smac, you may want to watch this. 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=735104453551915&id=319398665176588

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=872544023135191&id=319398665176588

Smac. That overview was helpful. Part 3 - the first link. Is incredibly interesting. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Abulafia

[Abulafia]

I thought the point you mention at 25. Was very beautiful.  

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Abulafia said:

That you would think a mother would intentionally put her child in harms way is offensive to the majority of mothers out there. Deeply offensive.

 

I never said that. I think her behavior foolish, not malicious.

[Abulafia]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I never said that. I think her behavior foolish, not malicious.

Fair enough. I think he was looked on and presented himself as a lovable but lonely high priest grandpa. He was quite elderly.  If the mother had had any inkling whatsoever this man was a paedophile, she would never have let him into the family home. 

[Scott Lloyd]

48 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

Fair enough. I think he was looked on and presented himself as a lovable but lonely high priest grandpa. He was quite elderly.  If the mother had had any inkling whatsoever this man was a paedophile, she would never have let him into the family home. 

As a conscientious parent, I would never place a vulnerable child, boy or girl, in the same bed with an adult who was not a member of the immediate family. 

And as far as he being an “elderly high priest,” up until this year, pretty much every male who was active in the Church and lived long enough could expect to be made a high priest. That does not give a parent a pass on exercising due caution. 

[Abulafia]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

As a conscientious parent, I would never place a vulnerable child, boy or girl, in the same bed with an adult who was not a member of the immediate family. 

And as far as he being an “elderly high priest,” up until this year, pretty much every male who was active in the Church and lived long enough could expect to be made a high priest. That does not give a parent a pass on exercising due caution. 

And it doesn't give the bishop a pass to not inform her. Duty of care, Scott.

[ALarson]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As a conscientious parent, I would never place a vulnerable child, boy or girl, in the same bed with an adult who was not a member of the immediate family. 

And as far as he being an “elderly high priest,” up until this year, pretty much every male who was active in the Church and lived long enough could expect to be made a high priest. That does not give a parent a pass on exercising due caution. 

The Mother used poor judgment in trusting this 87 year old man (he was not a stranger though as you've claimed a couple of times here).   But, she is not to blame for the abuse of her son (that falls squarely on Curtis himself).  I'm sure she carries a burden of guilt regarding allowing that man into her home, but she had righteous and good intentions in trying to give him a home with a family.  Many children may have to share a room with a grandparent in smaller homes and for me, that's what the feelings were here.  In hindsight, it was an awful and tragic choice to bring him into their home as they did.

The church leaders did play a role in that too, though.  There's enough "blame" to go around if one wants to start pointing fingers. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

And it doesn't give the bishop a pass to not inform her. Duty of care, Scott.

Hindsight is 20-20. Perhaps he should have been more explicit, but as I recall, he did urge her not to take the man in. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 minute ago, ALarson said:

The Mother used poor judgment in trusting this 87 year old man (he was not a stranger though as you've claimed a couple of times here).   But, she is not to blame for the abuse of her son (that falls squarely on Curtis himself).  I'm sure she carries a burden of guilt regarding allowing that man into her home, but she had righteous and good intentions in trying to give him a home with a family.  Many children may have to share a room with a grandparent in smaller homes and for me, that's what the feelings were here.  In hindsight, it was an awful and tragic choice to bring him into their home as they did.

The church leaders did play a role in that too, though.  There's enough "blame" to go around if one wants to start pointing fingers. 

 

The finger-pointing began the day she blamed the Church for the consequences of her own negligence. 

[ALarson]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The finger-pointing began the day she blamed the Church for the consequences of her own negligence. 

I disagree (and you've shown that you are not very knowledgeable regarding the facts and details of this case several times now, but continue to judge).

I'm sure she feels a lot of guilt over bringing that man into her home.  But as I said, there's a lot of blame to go around regarding this case.  Curtis is the one who is fully responsible for abusing all of the children he so horribly abused.  But others made choices that led to him continuing to have access to other children who he then abused..  It's a complex case and I do hope you'll actually read the book or research it so you can learn the facts.

But I really have said all I have to say on this and I'm moving on (for real this time ) 

Edited September 26, 2018 by ALarson

[Amulek]

5 hours ago, smac97 said:

Here's a quick summary of the interview between McKenna Denson and Shawn McCraney:

I watched the Part 3 entry and didn't learn much in the way of new information.

I learned that one of her four daughters and her ex-husband both support Joseph Bishop. But, you know, they are "TBM," so...

With respect to the leaked recording, she admits to giving it to several media outlets and that she was apparently wanting to leak the settlement offer, the NDA, and the recording all at once. Which, kind of sounds (a lot) like she was negotiating in bad faith. But she then goes on to say that she hadn't yet decided on whether or not she was going to take a settlement offer, so I'm not sure. I tend to think that leaking the recording was just a major blunder (like, land war in Asia, blunder). 

She also mentioned that, in the fast and testimony meeting she disrupted, the leaders did cut the microphone. It's not entirely clear to me in the video when that happened, but that's why you're able to hear her clearly throughout - they just captured all of the audio from the mic she was wearing, not the overhead speakers. 

Oh, and I listened to her tell the story about the razor blade in the icing. Sorry, still not buying that. 

 

[Abulafia]

Amulek. She made it clear that some of the information in the dossier came from her ecclesiastical records. So the message there, is if you talk to your bishop or leader and they write notes, that information can and will be used to try and bribe you to shut up if you ever take the church to task. That's more like scientology. [22.39]

 

She also describes her reaction to the dossier. She was catatonic. Horrified. She feels the church were using the dossier to shut her up and make her go away. [24.50] approx

Her ex husband, also appears to have provided information. A man, who according to McKenna,  was a serial adulterer during their relationship, and who had not paid child support..she gives a figure of nearly 70,000 dollars. But he is now serving in a stake presidency and never had any real discipline other than probation.

McKenna on the other hand was excommunicated for having her child Emily, with a man whom she had been living with for 2 years after the divorce, out of wedlock.  That's a pretty big disconnect right there.  But not unusual. I have two friends who were actually blamed for their husband's adultery.  That's an inevitable result of a patriarchal system. (Both stayed strong in the church).

She describes a date-rape incident where a neighbour appears to have put drugs in orange juice. He also drugged her children. A test was done but it couldn't be proven. So went no further. Again, that's really not uncommon. Most women don't report these things but getting a woman drunk or giving her drugs and then having sex with her when her will is compromised is common sadly.  Again, I have friends who never reported this because they felt it was their fault.  

On the razor blades. She went to a restaurant with some girl friends and their children, while she was pregnant. She felt a scratchy throat. Went to hospital. They found some pieces of blades. Her husband filed a report either to the church or the police accusing her of trying to kill her baby.  

That's pretty straightforward and can be corroborated on multiple levels.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Abulafia

[Abulafia]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The finger-pointing began the day she blamed the Church for the consequences of her own negligence. 

You are simply wrong. Ignorantly so. But this brings up an interesting issue, Scott.

Do you feel the institutional church has ever acted negligently when it comes to sexual abuse or violence and bullying? Is it even possible in your eyes?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

Amulek. She made it clear that some of the information in the dossier came from her ecclesiastical records. So the message there, is if you talk to your bishop or leader and they write notes, that information can and will be used to try and bribe you to shut up if you ever take the church to task. That's more like scientology. [22.39]

 

She also describes her reaction to the dossier. She was catatonic. Horrified. She feels the church were using the dossier to shut her up and make her go away. [24.50] approx

Her ex husband, also appears to have provided information. A man, who according to McKenna,  was a serial adulterer during their relationship, and who had not paid child support..she gives a figure of nearly 70,000 dollars. But he is now serving in a stake presidency and never had any real discipline other than probation.

McKenna on the other hand was excommunicated for having her child Emily, with a man whom she had been living with for 2 years after the divorce, out of wedlock.  That's a pretty big disconnect right there.  But not unusual. I have two friends who were actually blamed for their husband's adultery.  That's an inevitable result of a patriarchal system. (Both stayed strong in the church).

She describes a date-rape incident where a neighbour appears to have put drugs in orange juice. He also drugged her children. A test was done but it couldn't be proven. So went no further. Again, that's really not uncommon. Most women don't report these things but getting a woman drunk or giving her drugs and then having sex with her when her will is compromised is common sadly.  Again, I have friends who never reported this because they felt it was their fault.  

On the razor blades. She went to a restaurant with some girl friends and their children, while she was pregnant. She felt a scratchy throat. Went to hospital. They found some pieces of blades. Her husband filed a report either to the church or the police accusing her of trying to kill her baby.  

That's pretty straightforward and can be corroborated on multiple levels.

This is new to me. Honestly, I'm really starting to feel like she has a mental illness. I've had a couple of people in my life who everything was going wrong for them. One sister I visit taught I even considered taking in one of her children if needed. It became bizarre how many things were going wrong in her life. Similar to Job of the bible. I finally wondered if it could all be real and tried to talk to the bishop about it since I knew she had seen him, but it seemed he didn't want to betray confidences, which I get, but it wasn't helpful to me. Anyway, a short bit later she was put in a psychiatric hospital.

There really are people who go through a lot of truly horrible things. I've seen enough to know that some people have a lot of true hardships in life. I also know many people have experiences early in life that make them susceptible to later experiences. Some people have rough lives.

And church leaders are not perfect. Things happen that really shouldn't happen.  I have seen it myself. 

But as you shared this last bit about McKenna, I can't help, but wonder if some or many of her stories are from a psychiatric disorder of some kind rather than true to life. Obviously, most especially since I have never met her and have no formal training past a minor in psychology, I am in no position to diagnose her by any means, but as a friend of mine said, something has started to feel off, like it has for me at other times in my life, similar to the sister I VT. 

Whatever has happened, whatever is real or not, I hope she gets whatever it is she needs. 

 

[provoman]

..........................

Edited September 27, 2018 by provoman

[Abulafia]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

This is new to me. Honestly, I'm really starting to feel like she has a mental illness. I've had a couple of people in my life who everything was going wrong for them. One sister I visit taught I even considered taking in one of her children if needed. It became bizarre how many things were going wrong in her life. Similar to Job of the bible. I finally wondered if it could all be real and tried to talk to the bishop about it since I knew she had seen him, but it seemed he didn't want to betray confidences, which I get, but it wasn't helpful to me. Anyway, a short bit later she was put in a psychiatric hospital.

There really are people who go through a lot of truly horrible things. I've seen enough to know that some people have a lot of true hardships in life. I also know many people have experiences early in life that make them susceptible to later experiences. Some people have rough lives.

And church leaders are not perfect. Things happen that really shouldn't happen.  I have seen it myself. 

But as you shared this last bit about McKenna, I can't help, but wonder if some or many of her stories are from a psychiatric disorder of some kind rather than true to life. Obviously, most especially since I have never met her and have no formal training past a minor in psychology, I am in no position to diagnose her by any means, but as a friend of mine said, something has started to feel off, like it has for me at other times in my life, similar to the sister I VT. 

Whatever has happened, whatever is real or not, I hope she gets whatever it is she needs. 

 

I just don't think it is that usual. Most women don't report (on sexual abuse).

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Amulek. She made it clear that some of the information in the dossier came from her ecclesiastical records.

So what? When you are involved in litigation and your lawyer asks you for any information you have about X, you turn over any information you have about X.  

 

Quote

So the message there, is if you talk to your bishop or leader and they write notes, that information can and will be used to try and bribe you to shut up if you ever take the church to task. 

Isn't the crux of her lawsuit about what she allegedly told church leaders? How is the church's attorney supposed to determine the credibility of such a claim without talking to those leaders or consulting their notes? 

 

Quote

She also describes her reaction to the dossier. She was catatonic. Horrified. She feels the church were using the dossier to shut her up and make her go away. [24.50] approx

The church's attorney performed a routine background investigation on a person bringing suit against their client, just as they would in any other litigation.

She can feel however she wants about that, and she can impute whatever motives she wishes upon the church as well, but there's nothing nefarious going on here - it's all pretty routine stuff.

 

Quote

Her ex husband, also appears to have provided information.

As one would expect to occur during the course of a routine background investigation...

 

Quote

A man, who according to McKenna,  was a serial adulterer during their relationship, and who had not paid child support..she gives a figure of nearly 70,000 dollars. But he is now serving in a stake presidency and never had any real discipline other than probation.

I believe the key phrase here is "according to McKenna." 

 

Quote

She describes a date-rape incident where a neighbour appears to have put drugs in orange juice. He also drugged her children. A test was done but it couldn't be proven. So went no further. Again, that's really not uncommon. [...]

No, she alleges that a neighbor drugged their orange juice and then raped her - only there was no evidence indicating that the neighbor put drugs in the bottle of orange juice and there was no physical evidence of rape either. 

I haven't seen any police reports or any other independent information about the indecent, so we only have McKenna's word to go on. You can believe her if you want, but without any physical evidence of sexual assault it sounds to me like she was either exaggerating or lying about the rape. 

 

Quote

On the razor blades. She went to a restaurant with some girl friends and their children, while she was pregnant. She felt a scratchy throat. Went to hospital. They found some pieces of blades. Her husband filed a report either to the church or the police accusing her of trying to kill her baby.  

That's pretty straightforward and can be corroborated on multiple levels.

Oh, I believe she ingested razor blades (or pieces of razor blades). I just don't buy that they were negligently placed into the cake by the folks at PF Chang's as McKenna claimed. I think she did it herself.

I find it a little strange that she would not want cake but would still take a spoonful of icing to eat, but hey - it is chocolate so who can blame her. However, I find it highly suspicious that - even with only a spoonful of icing - she wouldn't bother to chew it up or move it around in her mouth enough before swallowing that she wouldn't have noticed a razor blade. 

She then goes to the hospital, where they weren't able to identify the object(s), and was sent home with a laxative. Then she calls a friend, who's husband is a doctor, and is told to go back to the hospital and get an OBGYN. She goes back, gets an OB, and they ultimately remove the razor blades. 

Personally, I think she planted the razors herself and that calling her friend was just a pretext for going back to the hospital because she knew what she digested was dangerous. 

 

[Abulafia]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

1.So what? When you are involved in litigation and your lawyer asks you for any information you have about X, you turn over any information you have about X.  

Well, can the church have it both ways? It claims priest/penitent privilege  when it suits them to do so.  As I recall, one of the press releases on Bishop said the church didn't have the investigative tools in his case. That's really, really troubling. Aren't you troubled by that?

 

2.Isn't the crux of her lawsuit about what she allegedly told church leaders? How is the church's attorney supposed to determine the credibility of such a claim without talking to those leaders or consulting their notes? 

Again, they seem oblivious when it comes to Bishop.  Whatever they have on him, they aren't telling. Doesn't that worry you?

 

 

3.The church's attorney performed a routine background investigation on a person bringing suit against their client, just as they would in any other litigation.

Why can't they do that on Bishop? Release that dossier too.

4.She can feel however she wants about that, and she can impute whatever motives she wishes upon the church as well, but there's nothing nefarious going on here - it's all pretty routine stuff.

You may think that it is routine from a legal pov, for an institution that calls itself the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, to behave like this. I can assure you that it is jarring to many, and not just disaffected members.

 

5.As one would expect to occur during the course of a routine background investigation...

Yeah. I get your point.

 

6.I believe the key phrase here is "according to McKenna." 

Right, because no one who takes the church to task can be a friend to the church. That seems to be the unwritten rule whether it is the victims of Frank Curtis, of  Joseph Bishop or the many victims of Kristy Johnson's father to name just a few.  Sadly there are too many more.

 

7.No, she alleges that a neighbor drugged their orange juice and then raped her - only there was no evidence indicating that the neighbor put drugs in the bottle of orange juice and there was no physical evidence of rape either. 

Because she left it too long to report. My friends who had this happen, never reported. Too mush shame, fear of not being believed, feeling partly responsible for being an idiot and not seeing it coming.

8.I haven't seen any police reports or any other independent information about the indecent, so we only have McKenna's word to go on. You can believe her if you want, but without any physical evidence of sexual assault it sounds to me like she was either exaggerating or lying about the rape. 

Right, because anyone who takes the church to task is an enemy of the church and they must be discredited because the default position here seems to be that the church can never be negligent.

 

9.Oh, I believe she ingested razor blades (or pieces of razor blades). I just don't buy that they were negligently placed into the cake by the folks at PF Chang's as McKenna claimed. I think she did it herself.

I find it a little strange that she would not want cake but would still take a spoonful of icing to eat, but hey - it is chocolate so who can blame her. However, I find it highly suspicious that - even with only a spoonful of icing - she wouldn't bother to chew it up or move it around in her mouth enough before swallowing that she wouldn't have noticed a razor blade. 

She then goes to the hospital, where they weren't able to identify the object(s), and was sent home with a laxative. Then she calls a friend, who's husband is a doctor, and is told to go back to the hospital and get an OBGYN. She goes back, gets an OB, and they ultimately remove the razor blades. 

Personally, I think she planted the razors herself and that calling her friend was just a pretext for going back to the hospital because she knew what she digested was dangerous. 

Right. Because anyone who takes the church to task is lying and cannot be credible.

Amulek,  go watch the Shawn McCraney interview with Kristy Johnson. See wgat happens. You should watch it. You need to watch it.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Abulafia

[provoman]

7 minutes ago, Abulafia said:

Amulek,  go watch the Shawn McCraney interview with Kristy Johnson. See wgat happens. You should watch it. You need to watch it.

Does Kristy Johnson talk about when She and her sister(s) went to the Police, the police did nothing?

[Abulafia]

13 minutes ago, provoman said:

Does Kristy Johnson talk about when She and her sister(s) went to the Police, the police did nothing?

Yep.

[smac97]

7 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Amulek. She made it clear that some of the information in the dossier came from her ecclesiastical records. So the message there, is if you talk to your bishop or leader and they write notes, that information can and will be used to try and bribe you to shut up if you ever take the church to task. That's more like scientology. [22.39]

What "information" came from her ecclesiastical records?

Also, if a former employee were to sue the former employer, would you expect the former employer to not review that person's employment records as part of the lawsuit?

Quote

She also describes her reaction to the dossier. She was catatonic. Horrified. She feels the church were using the dossier to shut her up and make her go away. [24.50] approx

Her feelings and reactions aren't really relevant to her legal claims.

Quote

Her ex husband, also appears to have provided information. A man, who according to McKenna,  was a serial adulterer during their relationship, and who had not paid child support..she gives a figure of nearly 70,000 dollars. But he is now serving in a stake presidency and never had any real discipline other than probation.

"According to McKenna" being the operative phrase there.

Quote

McKenna on the other hand was excommunicated for having her child Emily, with a man whom she had been living with for 2 years after the divorce, out of wedlock. 

I'm skeptical of this claim.

Quote

That's a pretty big disconnect right there.  But not unusual.

In my experience, that would be quite unusual.

Quote

I have two friends who were actually blamed for their husband's adultery.  That's an inevitable result of a patriarchal system. (Both stayed strong in the church).

Non sequitur.  

Quote

She describes a date-rape incident where a neighbour appears to have put drugs in orange juice. He also drugged her children. A test was done but it couldn't be proven. So went no further.

Where she claims a neighbor put drugs in orange juice and drugged her children.

So . . . no evidence of misconduct except for her unsubstantiated and uncorroborated say-so.

Funny how often that happens with McKenna Denson.

Quote

Again, that's really not uncommon.

False claims are also "really not uncommon."

The burden of proof here is on McKenna Denson.  She doesn't get to make an allegation and then rely upon that allegation being "really not uncommon."  She actually has to prove up her claims.  So far she has not done that.

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Most women don't report these things but getting a woman drunk or giving her drugs and then having sex with her when her will is compromised is common sadly.  Again, I have friends who never reported this because they felt it was their fault.  

What you say about your friends experience has zero evidentiary value as to the allegations of McKenna Denson.

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On the razor blades. She went to a restaurant with some girl friends and their children, while she was pregnant. She felt a scratchy throat. Went to hospital. They found some pieces of blades. Her husband filed a report either to the church or the police accusing her of trying to kill her baby.  

That's pretty straightforward and can be corroborated on multiple levels.

I'd like to understand this better.  

As these things are coming out, I am finding myself at once finding McKenna Denson less credible and more sympathetic.  I think she is a very troubled person, likely arising from her very troubled childhood, the misconduct against her by Joseph Bishop (the parameters of which remain very vague), her troubled marriage, and her personal choices.  I also think she is not a very credible person as to many of her claims.  

I feel badly for her.  But in the main, I think her disputed claims are either false or exaggerated/distorted.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 27, 2018 by smac97