bluebell Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, rongo said: Just wait. Come Follow Me for adults . . . Conference talks have a certain sameness about them, and in most wards, how people teach conference talks does, too. We've tried to use teacher training meetings to improve how people teach, with limited results. People (and Mormons in particular) tend to be pretty resistant to making changes in what they're comfortable with. I agree, people (I don't think mormons in particular) don't like change because it's work. It's like a type of 'instinctual drift', where we have good intentions to change for the better, and do change for a while, but following old pathways is easier and given enough time we tend to drift back to the path of least resistance. And a lot of people have a 'good old days' view to things they are familiar with too, where they are resistant to change because, for good or bad, they just don't like things to be different. And I also agree that most people are not great at giving talks or lessons using GC talks. That's not the fault of the material, but the culture of those who are teaching from it. I think the church is trying to change the teaching culture in the church--they are pushing for members to really utilize the spirit and be led by it ---but it will continue to be a struggle as long as members resist embracing new ways of doing stuff. 2
bluebell Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 24 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Yes and I hated the Come Follow Me Manuel for youth SS. First the manual was geared to 12 to 17 year olds. That is nuts. There is a big difference between 12 and 17 year olds and teaching the same lessons to them means either the 17 year olds are getting boring, easy lessons that do not challenge them or the 12 year old lessons are to advanced. I would be like using the same math book to teach 12 year olds and 167 year olds in the public schools. We would all be upset at that. Second and even worse, it was the same lessons year after year. We are not teaching them anything new or exciting. By the time they turn 15, they have heard basically the same lesson 3 times. I would be bored as well. So are they changing the SS manual for the youth too? I thought it was just primary and adult SS.
bluebell Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I think it depends on the quality of the teaching. We recently had a new counselor called to Sunday School. He was a terrible Gospel Doctrine teacher and now he is supposed to teach the teachers how to teach. SMH Our ward is struggling with something similar with a SS counselor. I feel your pain. 1
bsjkki Posted July 7, 2018 Author Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, rongo said: Totally agree about Come Follow Me for youth. I find it interesting that there are people who say, "Come Follow Me for youth stinks! I'm really happy we now have Come Follow Me for primary and adults!" I don't think that new Church programs are definitely or always better than what they replace. A big factor is the way most people and families are now. We could have the best all-time curriculum and most wouldn't tap its potential or avail themselves of it. I'm not sure why people think a home study program is finally the curriculum promised land. I'm sad that many will never hear the really good stories, anecdotes, and quotes in the "old" manuals. When I've used them, people say, "Where did you get that?" (the old manuals. ). I also don't like the sloganization and "branding" the Church uses with curricula. "Come Follow Me" for ________, "Teaching in the Savior's Way" (boring, useless monthly meetings and awkward attempts to smoke out wallflowers and have circle-the-wagon "council" meetings in lieu of classes and lessons). Everything has a packaged title (even "Hastening the Work"). You are making me depressed. The old primary manuals were outdated. I don't like Come Follow Me for youth because the same topic is discussed with the youth 8 times in one month across Sunday School and youth classes. It is a recipe for boredom. The old Gospel Doctrine lessons were not great. Seminary has gone more "topical" too. Maybe the basic topics of the Gospel are being hit so hard because we are not doing well with them. But, there is an overkill factor where everyone just tunes out due to boredom and repetition. (Stake conference in my area seems to have two topics: missionary work and temple attendence. I have also had issues with the "branding" of gospel initiatives. The "hastening the work" slogan was especially irksom. It fed into many of my families "end of the world" theories and they took it as a sign of the times. Personally, I would prefer delving more deeply into the actual scriptures in classes and learning the stories from the scriptures and putting them in context. I hope that is what is focused on in Primary. I don't think we know our scriptures well enough. Edited July 7, 2018 by bsjkki 2
bsjkki Posted July 7, 2018 Author Posted July 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: So are they changing the SS manual for the youth too? I thought it was just primary and adult SS. I don't think so. But, the Come Follow Me lessons are updated and added to each year. Teachers should be adapting the lessons to the age group they are teaching. When I have taught Sunday School, usually only one or two items from the lessons are covered and discussed so ideally, there should be variety in the lessons and they would never be the same year after year. The problem comes with the topical nature of these lessons. In July, the youth are still getting 8 lessons on ordinances and covenants. That is where the problems are. I often find my mind wandering after hearing the same topic repeatedly. In Relief Society and Priesthood, they are discussing the same topic for 6 months on the 4th Sunday. Now imagine if that same topic was covered twice each Sunday for a month. Boring. 1
Jeanne Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 Of course, I am not familiar as all of you with the "Come Follow Me" teachings. But I do hope that at least for teens and adults that teachings are united with the seminary teachings with better explanations of the essays with the vision stories and such..that there is a discuallion on what is new to adults that is familiar in ways with the youth. Just having maybe 5 or 6 vision stories is not enough as there were more. Hoping they are thourough and this is their chance to make things right. Sorry is I am off the mark. I just want truth to be told and for the Saints to use the precious free agency and their own personal revelations to define truth as it really is
bluebell Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I don't think so. But, the Come Follow Me lessons are updated and added to each year. Teachers should be adapting the lessons to the age group they are teaching. When I have taught Sunday School, usually only one or two items from the lessons are covered and discussed so ideally, there should be variety in the lessons and they would never be the same year after year. The problem comes with the topical nature of these lessons. In July, the youth are still getting 8 lessons on ordinances and covenants. That is where the problems are. I often find my mind wandering after hearing the same topic repeatedly. In Relief Society and Priesthood, they are discussing the same topic for 6 months on the 4th Sunday. Now imagine if that same topic was covered twice each Sunday for a month. Boring. I agree, having that many lessons on the same topic is hard. I think people’s eyes do start to glaze over when they hear a lesson topic that they’ve already heard multiple times before. 1
Tacenda Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Of course, I am not familiar as all of you with the "Come Follow Me" teachings. But I do hope that at least for teens and adults that teachings are united with the seminary teachings with better explanations of the essays with the vision stories and such..that there is a discuallion on what is new to adults that is familiar in ways with the youth. Just having maybe 5 or 6 vision stories is not enough as there were more. Hoping they are thourough and this is their chance to make things right. Sorry is I am off the mark. I just want truth to be told and for the Saints to use the precious free agency and their own personal revelations to define truth as it really is Apparently they are learning of the multiple First Vision accounts in Seminary, etc. and slowly the adults are getting some lessons, last year for instance. But the new narrative, is definitely a hard one to teach to the older adults. For instance my husband and our friend and his brother were talking not too long ago about the head in the hat method of translating instead of using the plates, and his very TBM friend didn't believe it and thought it anti. And this guy is active to a T! I thought for sure he would have read it in the Ensign recently. He told my husband he'd have to look into it. Too bad he wasn't aware early on in his life. He served a mission in Sweden, and has never wavered, but what if this is what might make him do that? It happened to most of us that are now disaffected, too bad we weren't taught about Joseph Smith's polygamy in Seminary, like we talked about Brigham Young's polygamy in wider circles. Then it may have been a ho hum, no big deal kind of thing. https://ldsmediatalk.com/2015/08/17/new-seminary-institute-manuals-cover-church-history-in-depth/ Edited July 7, 2018 by Tacenda
Hamba Tuhan Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, bluebell said: And a lot of people have a 'good old days' view to things they are familiar with too, where they are resistant to change because, for good or bad, they just don't like things to be different. As Elder Bednar said to us three years ago in a regional priesthood leadership training meeting: 'Brethren, there is far, far, far too much tradition in this room'. He then told us that if we were simply doing what had always been done, that the Church was going to leave us behind. 3
Scott Lloyd Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, rongo said: Yeah, people often leave the rails when there are home study groups outside of the family and outside of priesthood oversight. Charismatic figures gain followings, and off you go . . . They do fill an obvious need in making things more interesting and exciting, which is part of their appeal. False doctrine often is appealing in that respect.
Traela Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, bsjkki said: I don't think so. But, the Come Follow Me lessons are updated and added to each year. Teachers should be adapting the lessons to the age group they are teaching. When I have taught Sunday School, usually only one or two items from the lessons are covered and discussed so ideally, there should be variety in the lessons and they would never be the same year after year. The problem comes with the topical nature of these lessons. In July, the youth are still getting 8 lessons on ordinances and covenants. That is where the problems are. I often find my mind wandering after hearing the same topic repeatedly. In Relief Society and Priesthood, they are discussing the same topic for 6 months on the 4th Sunday. Now imagine if that same topic was covered twice each Sunday for a month. Boring. If you look on the Come Follow Me website, under "Instructions for Curriculum 2019" they show youth and adult Sunday School as both using the new manual. Edited July 7, 2018 by Traela Clarity 1
Calm Posted July 7, 2018 Posted July 7, 2018 4 hours ago, Exiled said: I thought study groups were discouraged? Expanded FHE groups for singles and empty nesters are allowed. I am thinking more on those lines than purely study groups.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 1:28 PM, Traela said: If you look on the Come Follow Me website, under "Instructions for Curriculum 2019" they show youth and adult Sunday School as both using the new manual. For many years now, older youth classes in Sunday School have been taught from the same manual as the adult gospel doctrine class. This merely perpetuates that practice.
Traela Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: For many years now, older youth classes in Sunday School have been taught from the same manual as the adult gospel doctrine class. This merely perpetuates that practice. Maybe in your ward, but the current Come Follow Me curriculum is for specified for youth 12-18. 1
bsjkki Posted July 9, 2018 Author Posted July 9, 2018 On 7/7/2018 at 1:28 PM, Traela said: If you look on the Come Follow Me website, under "Instructions for Curriculum 2019" they show youth and adult Sunday School as both using the new manual. Thanks for stressing this. I was excited to learn the youth and adults will be studying the New Testament next year in Sunday School. Hopefully this helps the youth not have 8 lessons on the same topic each month.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 9, 2018 Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Traela said: Maybe in your ward, but the current Come Follow Me curriculum is for specified for youth 12-18. I understand that. I’m saying that for years past, the Sunday School classes for older youth have had the same manual as the gospel doctrine classes for adults. This has been standard in the Church, not just in my ward. I’m referring to the years prior to the Come Follow Me Curriculum. Edited July 9, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
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