SteveO Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Love him or hate him, I remember when Glenn Beck was down on the border with fellow racist republicans doing some serious humanitarian work for children of immigrants facing the EXACT. SAME. SITUATION. as they are today. That was back in 2015... ...and nobody cared then Beck couldn’t get anyone to show up and cover what was happening there. No one. I felt for the kids then, and I feel for them now—but I get irritated more by those who are using their situation to score political points. Chuck Schumer just announced that they will not be getting on board with Ted Cruz’s sensible proposal to immediately fix the problem. Child separation is an atrocity...just not so much of one that they’ll go over Trump’s head by making a deal with Cruz. Furthermore, if you think being separated from their parents is the worst some of these kids are facing, you haven’t been paying attention. Border patrol agents will touch the skin of sleeping babies during inspections at ports of entry to see if they are still alive. Cartels were using (currently using?) murdered babies to smuggle drugs into the country. Don’t think for a second that there is anything these evil people aren’t willing to do to make money. I understand it’s painful, but I think there needs to be some vetting that these children aren’t being maliciously used, abused, and/or trafficked. I also don’t understand why it is unreasonable to demand border security in exchange for more sensible immigration laws to ensure this problem doesn’t happen again. I want immigration, but I don’t want evil people (and that is exactly what they are) exploiting our lax border security. You don’t have to do one at the expense of the other. 4
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, SteveO said: Love him or hate him, I remember when Glenn Beck was down on the border with fellow racist republicans doing some serious humanitarian work for children of immigrants facing the EXACT. SAME. SITUATION. as they are today. That was back in 2015... Do you have a link for this?
SteveO Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Calm said: Do you have a link for this? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/amp/Glenn-Beck-to-truck-supplies-to-migrants-on-border-5609275.php Sorry, it was back in 2014. I remember listening to him on the radio petitioning people to help or donate. Edited June 20, 2018 by SteveO
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, SteveO said: Furthermore, if you think being separated from their parents is the worst some of these kids are facing, you haven’t been paying attention. Border patrol agents will touch the skin of sleeping babies during inspections at ports of entry to see if they are still alive. Cartels were using (currently using?) murdered babies to smuggle drugs into the country. Source for this?
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Thanks for the link, Steve. I think Schumer is being stupid to insist on continuing with the stalemate with Trump instead of going with something that might take sometime, but would be a blow to Trump's standing. http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/393069-schumer-rejects-gop-proposal-to-address-border-crisis Sure, it would be quicker if Trump decides to back down, but if he doesn't? Having the backup plan of legislation in place and showing movement in that direction, imo, is more likely to pressure Trump into changing his approach so he isn't in complete opposition to Republican. It would be a big PR bonus, imo, if Schumer showed issues were more important than pressuring Trump. Beck bugs me on a lot of things, but this impressed me. Edited June 20, 2018 by Calm
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said: Source for this? Apparently a longtime (at least the 70s) urban myth that gets reported from time to time: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/drugs-smuggled-in-dead-babies/ Wish they put dates on these things. Wouldn't be shocked if someone heard about an urban legend and used it. It could be some border patrol do this because someone believed the story and included it in training as apparently happened in the past, Quote Vann Capps, a Customs official in Miami, said he heard the story in a 1973 training course for inspectors at Hofstra University. “They gave us different concealment techniques from past seizures, and this one involved cocaine concealed in the dead baby’s body,” Capps said. He said he believes the incident was alleged to have occurred at either the Miami airport or the John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York. Edited June 20, 2018 by Calm 1
SteveO Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Calm said: Apparently a longtime (at least the 70s) urban myth that gets reported from time to time: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/drugs-smuggled-in-dead-babies/ Wish they put dates on these things. Wouldn't be shocked if someone heard about an urban legend and used it. Looks like I fell for it. Although the guy who told me it was a certified border patrol agent up here in Utah for the weekend. I talked with him at Camp Williams for his National Guard drill. And it still doesn’t change my opinion that these guys are bad news. Edited June 20, 2018 by SteveO
SteveO Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, Calm said: .It could be some border patrol do this because someone believed the story and included it in training as apparently happened in the past, I was just about to edit my last post. The guy never tried selling me the idea that he himself ever witnessed it—just that it was a part of their procedure and that was the reason for it. Maybe this is the same thing?
bsjkki Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) The reporting on this issue has been light on facts and strong on emotion. Why? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc Edited June 20, 2018 by bsjkki
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, SteveO said: facing the EXACT. SAME. SITUATION. as they are today. The situation is the same, but not exactly. The sad reality is when there is a democrat in office, his opponents and their supporters will be outraged. When there is a republican in office, his opponents and their supporters will be outraged. My guess is that we will now see a left-leaning pundit organize a project (media event) to feed and protect the children on the border as an attempt to draw attention to Trump's policies. The people who didn't show up in 2014 will be the ones taking selfies, while those who did show up in 2014 will stay home. I'm really sick and tired of bipartisan politics in America. 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said: I'm really sick and tired of bipartisan politics in America. Mostly two sides to the same coin, in my opinion. 2
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, SteveO said: I was just about to edit my last post. The guy never tried selling me the idea that he himself ever witnessed it—just that it was a part of their procedure and that was the reason for it. Maybe this is the same thing? Makes sense.
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, bsjkki said: The reporting on this issue has been light on facts and strong on emotion. Why? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc It is all germ warfare.
SteveO Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said: The situation is the same, but not exactly. The sad reality is when there is a democrat in office, his opponents and their supporters will be outraged. When there is a republican in office, his opponents and their supporters will be outraged. My guess is that we will now see a left-leaning pundit organize a project (media event) to feed and protect the children on the border as an attempt to draw attention to Trump's policies. The people who didn't show up in 2014 will be the ones taking selfies, while those who did show up in 2014 will stay home. I'm really sick and tired of bipartisan politics in America. Book of Mormon is a type and shadow...before their downfall the Nephites dissagreed on points of doctrine and regressed back into tribes. I just find it interesting how the term “tribalism” is being used increasingly to describe our current state of being. Anyways, a topic for a different thread maybe 3
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Looks like the United States has dropped out of the UN Human Rights Council following their statement about this issue.https://www.c-span.org/video/?447326-1/trump-administration-announces-withdrawal-un-human-rights-council So now, the question becomes: if illegal migrants anywhere carry their children across a border, should their children be removed from them?
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said: Looks like the United States has dropped out of the UN Human Rights Council following their statement about this issue.https://www.c-span.org/video/?447326-1/trump-administration-announces-withdrawal-un-human-rights-council So now, the question becomes: if illegal migrants anywhere carry their children across a border, should their children be removed from them? God given rights? Like the right for a family to stay intact? Gee, I wonder why they chose to announce this today? Quote The United States announced it was withdrawing from the United Nations Human Rights Council on Tuesday, dismissing it as a "cesspool of political bias" for its anti-Israel stance. It marks the latest rejection of multilateral engagement by the Trump administration - following its exit from the Paris climate accords and the Iran nuclear deal - and comes a day after the UN's most senior human rights official condemned the US for separating children from parents at the border with Mexico. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/19/united-states-announce-withdrawal-un-human-rights-council/ Edited June 20, 2018 by Calm
USU78 Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Calm said: God given rights? Like the right for a family to stay intact? Gee, I wonder why they chose to announce this today? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/19/united-states-announce-withdrawal-un-human-rights-council/ Simon wiesenthal center like the move.
Miya Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 If they're here illegally, as families or individuals, I don't understand why they're being separated. Why are they even allowed in? If they're not legal and want to stay together as a family, I believe they should immigrate legally as a family. If I was forcing my way illegally into a country, I wouldn't expect to be protected by the laws that apply to citizens. It's a heartbreaking situation, but we need to take care of our own citizens and families.
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, USU78 said: Simon wiesenthal center like the move. I would have been more impressed if it had happened sometime when its top official hadn't just criticized Trump.
USU78 Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 Just now, Calm said: I would have been more impressed if it had happened sometime when its top official hadn't just criticized Trump. The two phenomena don't appear to be related
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, Calm said: Gee, I wonder why they chose to announce this today? Not only did we withdraw from the Human Right Council, but we have labelled them an "embarrassment" and a "mockery". North Korea = Smart and powerful. Let's work together. UN Human Rights Council = Defenders of human rights abusers. We refuse to participate. This administration is unbelievably bizarre. 1
bsjkki Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 24 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said: Looks like the United States has dropped out of the UN Human Rights Council following their statement about this issue.https://www.c-span.org/video/?447326-1/trump-administration-announces-withdrawal-un-human-rights-council So now, the question becomes: if illegal migrants anywhere carry their children across a border, should their children be removed from them? I don't understand why this now becomes the question. The reasons given for pulling out of the UN Human Rights Council were not related to the current issue. Under President Bush, the US did not join this organization. Did you watch the video? Here is a current list of council countries. https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/CurrentMembers.aspx Cuba? Venezuela? China? Here is Secretary Nielsen's full remarks from her press conference yesterday. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/06/18/dhs-secretary-nielsens-remarks-illegal-immigration-crisis I think her appearance is a rorschach test . On certain conservative leaning sites, many felt she gave an excellent, factual presentation of the issues. On left leaning sites...she was depicted quite differently. She was chased out of restaurant by protestors shouting. "No Borders, No Walls, sanctuary for all."
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 10 minutes ago, Miya said: If they're here illegally, as families or individuals, I don't understand why they're being separated. Why are they even allowed in? If they're not legal and want to stay together as a family, I believe they should immigrate legally as a family. If I was forcing my way illegally into a country, I wouldn't expect to be protected by the laws that apply to citizens. It's a heartbreaking situation, but we need to take care of our own citizens and families. I work daily with migrants, refugees and asylum seekers. Believe me, in almost every case they do not want to enter a country illegally. So why do they do it? Because they can't enter the country legally. 2
Rajah Manchou Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, bsjkki said: On certain conservative leaning sites, many felt she gave an excellent, factual presentation of the issues. On left leaning sites...she was depicted quite differently. She was chased out of restaurant by protestors shouting. "No Borders, No Walls, sanctuary for all." Could we for once discuss an issue without dividing things up into left and right? Otherwise, we get nowhere.
Calm Posted June 20, 2018 Posted June 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, USU78 said: The two phenomena don't appear to be related Seriously?
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