Update on McKenna Denson Lawsuit

[Stargazer]

29 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

Fair question! You mentioned that you've been persecuted for being LDS. Now, there are times when someone asks if you are LDS and they don't mean "Oh Yay!" There are times it reads as hostile. Or disgusted. The man in question was NOT of the "Oh Yay!" variety. I was not endowed then, so I had no purchases to make there. If I had, more negative treatment would have been there than just the obvious disgust.  

So, how many times have you been asked how many wives you have? 🙂 

When I was in the Army, one guy in my platoon was always trying to find something to pester me about on my religion, like the wives question, until he got married and discovered that the battalion chaplain who was to do the deed was LDS (and very popular with the troops).  When I found this out I asked him in all apparent innocence, "So who's going to marry you?"  He looked sheepishly at me and said "Some Mormon!"  And never pestered me again.  I do have to say that his pestering wasn't vindictive.  We got along fine after that.  But when I came before the promotion board to possibly be advanced to sergeant (which did happen), one of the board members, a staff sergeant in my company, was opposed to my promotion (and I found out later, this was specifically because I was a Mormon).  Fortunately, he was in the minority, and the board president, our battalion sergeant major, made him change his vote.  And back when I was preparing for my mission, and working in a factory, my foreman was a Southern Baptist who liked to call me out on my religion, about how I was going to hell and so forth.  Annoying, but because he didn't extend his bigotry to actual persecution, it was all right in the end.  

Yeah, I get really slitty-eyed about situations like you described.  I'm not a violent person, but pounding on people like that always seems to become an idea under consideration when it happens.  I've never been singled out for negativity due to my Indian blood (because I look like a standard white guy), but I react badly to it when I see it.

29 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

Funny, you have Native American blood, and my Dad's Dad was born in Wittle-le-woods, England. Am I spelling that right?

Never heard of the place before now -- Wikipedia says it is "Whittle-le-Woods", so you're close enough!  

By the way, I am currently living in England, but I'm a US citizen born in California.  After my wife died in 2015, I married an English lady, and since she was still working and I am retired, I came to England instead of the other way around.  We may switch that up, later.

29 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

Your "Konkow blood calls out more loudly." That happens.

Tacenda seems to be hearing it a bit!

Personally, I hear both sides strongly...and at times they take turns being more dominant.

With the cop looking to catch the mall thief, it turned out that it was a grab and run with no real description. So he went out and searched the first Indian in the vicinity he saw.

For some reason that made me laugh.  Like a cop going out to interview the "usual suspects".

29 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

Because, of course, the Indian is always wrong. That was a legal precedent established in the late 1400's.

Where the heck do you live, anyway?  Sounds like a place to avoid.

[Stargazer]

42 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

You will be heartened to know that for five years on BYU campus, I never experienced any overt racism...except when I went home on breaks.

The only hostility I encountered in Provo was when I was grouped into a "wimpy college boy" category with a friend of mine as an unfriendly local cursed at us as while we crossed the street on a walk light. He abandoned his car at the intersection and proceeded to run down the street after us with a tire iron.

I noted this, and turned and walked rapidly back toward him. After all of the racists trying to beat me up with increasing numbers, one guy with a tire iron was not scary to me at all. I would have fed it to him if he had not run away.  

Well, at least he would have had his daily minimum requirement of iron.

[Stargazer]

40 minutes ago, Classicslover said:

Calm?

You're still up? AND thinking clearly I see!

Well, you're tougher than me!

I'm going to call it a night!

Heh. Whereas I am up way before ya'll.  It's 11:20 am here, and we are getting ready to take a train into London for the weekend.  If I can drag myself away from the laptop long enough.

[Avatar4321]

6 hours ago, Classicslover said:

Oh yes. he WAS rebuking me, Then he stopped when he read the scripture I shared. Funny the Spirit didn't affect you the same way. He repented. Perhaps you are in a different time zone and it will happen later?

Do you think mocking the Spirit is really going to help your case?

[Avatar4321]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

If we don’t have racism to appeal to, we can easily find something else to turn us into some version of haves and have nots. In upper Cache Valley, my great great mother lived in a town that had a number of polygamous families along with monogamous. She told of how the monogamous wives made a big show of pitying the poor polygamous women in their pathetic lives of endless drudgery and loneliness, but her mom (polygamous wife,one of those who told her husband it was time to take another wife and pointed out an acceptable candidate) would smugly talk about how a monogamous home never had its doorstep polished, monogamous women were well known to be poor housekeepers, very lazy and the way they treated their husbands!  I doubt either view was very realistic. And what a waste of emotional energy when they lived in a time where the unity of community was so Important to move past subsistence living. 

Many people would pass up a chance to live in unity and harmony with others for a chance at being better in their own e yes than they are.

 

"If you are not one you are not mine. "

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Heh. Whereas I am up way before ya'll.  It's 11:20 am here, and we are getting ready to take a train into London for the weekend.  If I can drag myself away from the laptop long enough.

Enjoy. I wish I had taken the time to visit London more when I was there

[USU78]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Forgiveness can certainly help...will bring, imo the only true deep to the bone healing.

However, forgiveness does not mean one shouldn't seek justice.  Holding those who sin accountable is better than allowing them to continue in their sin, especially if there is potential for harm to others.  And if their repentance is held out as a reward for one's forgiveness or to bully a victim into passivity..."look, he's repented, he's promised never to do it again, if you try to get him charged you will destroy his life!"...well that may be true.  May not be true.  But the one sinned against may have had their life destroyed by the predator and it is their right to do what must be done to rebuild it.  Restitution is not just saying I am sorry and will live a good life from now on.

I knew a woman who had an affair with a former bishop, both excommunicated both reinstated at the end of the year, though he had begged her not to confess because of the impact on their families.  She eventually confessed and he was called to be disciplined.  And while everyone was acting like this was a new chapter for him, he had repented, he was still leaving her messages telling her he loved her.  She chose not to share them because she worried about the impact on herself...would leaders assume she was reciprocating them, would he lie that she was?  It gets very, very complicated, figuring out what is healing and what isn’t  

And pushing forgiveness on others as an obligation is more likely to harm than heal, imo.

We all know sad instances like that. Narcissistic sociopaths are all too common. 

And too often people will urge the person wronged to seek restoration of status quo ante and restoration of good relations between wronged and wronger. That's not at all what I have in mind, but rather the forgiveness that robs the sociopath of the power to continue to harm the wronged.

 

[Avatar4321]

Forgiveness can not be forced but it should be encouraged because it heals the forgiver. The Lord has said we are to forgive all.

it seems to me that this is the only path to healing that exists. Especially decades after the incident when little to no evidence exists anymore.

We can’t let our old pains weigh us down. This doesn’t mean they weren’t significant, real, life changing and painful. But if we are to have hope through Christ it has to be based on His counsel and it comes through letting go of past pains and putting it in his hands.

if you want justice, you might not get it in mortal courts. But He is aware. He will give justice to those who have escaped it in this life. So let’s trust Him and submit to His will

[bluebell]

14 hours ago, Classicslover said:

Does one have to be  Alma or Joseph Smith to stand up for truth against false doctrine?

(Psst! It's actually something the Lord requires of all of us!) 

You're kind of hard to have a discussion with because you keep moving the goal posts.  We weren't talking about standing up for truth or false doctrine when we were talking about Alma.  You used the 'what about Alma and JS?' analogy when you were trying to argue that we don't need to hear both sides of your story and that we should just believe you.

And like I said before, stories of Alma and JS in the scriptures do not support that we should just believe whatever you say is true.

Quote

 

You say that you have the spirit confirming that the scriptures and the plates are truth...

Do you REALLY believe that is all the Spirit can testify about?

 

Nope, I don't believe that.  We weren't even talking about that.  You're trying to move the goal posts again so you don't have to deal with what posters are actually saying.

Quote

 

What;'s more, you somehow believe that being neutral is somehow "noble".

You're wrong.

Revelation 3:

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

You are really good with taking scriptures out of context and applying them in ways that they were never meant to be implied, believing that they somehow prove your point when they don't.  

[changed]

21 hours ago, Classicslover said:

It IS systemic, when you realize that we've been forgetting the participation of one key player: The Adversary. He's working to get as many people as he can to leap out of the light.

changed...let's discuss your questions:

- Are callings from God? Answer: Sometimes. When those issuing the callings actually listen to Him. AND are actually worthy of the Spirit.

One of the long line of bishops I had who was racist, was dealing with a brand knew member, fresh out of the baptismal font. This bishop called him to teach the Gospel Doctrine class.

Yep. You read that right.

I asked him "why"? That bishop responded: "Because he's a teacher. He's a professional. So he knows how to do it."

I said: "But he has NO clue about how to teach with the Spirit. THAT is essential. Besides, he should be in a class geared towards new members, LEARNING."

The bishop looked at me blankly. Then blinked a couple of times. Then walked away.

The new member soon felt overwhelmed and left the Church.

There was one of the long line of racist stake presidents who was teaching us all in ward conference setting. HE TOLD US NOT TO PRAY ABOUT ACCEPTING CALLINGS.

Yep. You read that right.

My first thought was: "Well you guys don't actually pray when you extend callings, I guess the thinking is that if people don't pray about accepting callings, you can really leave the Lord out ALTOGETHER. And just do what you want.

This arrogant stake president also went on to say that if you are called as the ward organist, and you don't play the organ...then LEARN!

Yep. You read that right.

I spoke up. i pointed out that it was actually the Adversary's plan to take away people's agency, and that people had the right to pray about whatever they want. I said: "You can't dictate our relationship with God. That's personal."

The whole ward (all who were present) turned on me. How DARE I suggest the stake president is wrong!

I wanted to say, "Well not ONLY wrong but completely un-inspired and mostly an idiot."...but I held my tongue, and instead wrote a letter to the First Presidency.

THAT time I actually got a reply...from the area presidency. They said they were sure the stake president didn't REALLY mean it. They also assured me that every member can indeed pray about anything they want to, including about whether or not to accept callings, and everyone's relationship with Heavenly Father is personal. 

Which was great, EXCEPT where they said they thought he didn't REALLY mean it. OF COURSE HE MEANT IT. He was an arrogant jerk. A tiny tyrant trying to throw his weight around.

So the area presidency ignored the Spirit on that one. Completely ignored the Spirit on that one. They had the chance to get rid of a bad apple AND a legitimate reason to do so: TEACHING FALSE DOCTRINE.

It's like they were dealing with a broken vacuum cleaner now incapable of doing the job, but they toss the lint back onto the floor to give the broken vacuum another chance., but DON'T stick around to check.

And leave us with the mess.

Our stake is vast, many hundreds of miles. This same stake president was tired of travelling. So he applied to divide the stake, KNOWING there were not enough numbers in the top half. Of interest to note, there were not enough numbers in the bottom half either. BUT HE LIED TO THE FIRST PRESIDENCY.

They didn't question him on it. They assumed he did his due diligence and took him at his word.

BIG MISTAKE.

The Spirit only helps if one thinks to use it.

- So that would answer your question regarding: Are Church leaders guided by the Spirit?

As to your third question about training: short answer: no. EXCEPT in regards to some of the ladies they placed in these callings.

I was engaged to a girl who I had met at work, taught and baptized. She had also taken schooling, because she wanted to work in a daycare. Then she did. In fact, she became a daycare manager.

So after working with children at her job...they wanted her to work with children most of the Sabbath day as well. Something she grew to resent.

While I was on scholarship at BYU, another racist bishop got a white boy from out of town to stay with him so he could romance her. That bishop (along with many others) did not like the idea of me dating or marrying a white woman.

My scholarship was for books and tuition. I had to get a government bursary for room and board. She was handling the correspondence.

So, because of racism back home, I abruptly found myself homeless in Provo. 

But at least I was the first one to see the pretty snow falling at night!

I stuck it out for as long as I could, but I had to quit.

Just another example of a leader not using the Spirit.

 

So sorry to hear of your experiences.  Yes, I rather got into it with our own bishop - first because he was handing a temple recommend to someone who was not worthy, and second for asking someone to work with YM who should not be working around WM.  I won both arguments, but felt bad having to stand up to the person who was supposed to be "called of G-d".  

Reading in the New Testament, Jesus' own disciples seemed to be a real mess though - they were often clueless on what was happening or what they were supposed to be doing.  Jesus was always having to correct them etc.  That is who the original 12 were, and the current leaders are not much better - not sure what to do with that - I think unstable leaders force us to walk on our own two feet you know?  Force us to have our own personal relationship with the Savior and G-d - at least that is what I am taking from it.  When Peter "the rock" denies Christ, and Judas betrays them - I mean that is who some of the current leaders are too.  

I attend church, but I do not have a temple recommend because I do not sustain church leaders or think the prophet is the only one on Earth to be led by God etc. etc.  Call someone an apostle or a pophet - even the apostles and prophets in the scriptures - they are not always reliable or worthy - so I guess it is just up to each of us individually to pray, and find our own beliefs, and find our own connection with our Heavenly Family.  

No middle-men.  That is perhaps the lesson in all of this.  No middle-men.  

[changed]

23 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Still disagree with you. When you claim Church has an environment which breeds these bad apples I don't think so. That's extreme. I am sure there's some "looking the other way" or "ignorance" is involved. That's magnified many times . 

In organizations that do not claim to be led by G-d members can question and critique leadership without the worry of damnation and hellfire.  

When you introduce the idea that arguing with leaders, or not sustaining them - you will lose your temple recommend, you will lose your place in the celestial kingdom - do what I say or be damned - that is a problem.  

23 hours ago, Exiled said:

The church definitely needs to change its policies regarding the vetting of its leaders.  These numbers are extremely unacceptable.  The church should realize that churches in general create an unreasonable trust relationship between leaders and followers.  Pedophiles love these types of organizations because it is easier to betray that trust when an unreasonable trust is already there.

Exactly.

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by changed

[changed]

23 hours ago, provoman said:

Is there any insight you can offer as to why parents did not go to police

Parents did not know.  If you have never been through this sort of thing, it comes down to the grooming process.... 

In my case, one of the kids was unable to talk...  the situation was taken care of - not by the church - but by the person's employer who discovered what he was doing on through a work computer (he video taped what he did).... The church knew quite a bit - knew why this person's first marriage had ended (did not warn the second wife), knew he had attended addiction recovery groups etc. etc. and still called him to leadership positions.  

Addiction recovery groups that are not led by trained professionals... and spouse and friends support groups that are not led by trained professionals, and a culture of "if you do not forgive, yours is the greater sin"... with leaders never telling anyone they should get divorced etc. etc.  this is a big problem.  ... I have seen victim shaming.... this thing, it has been - hug and love the abuser, avoid the victims.   There is so much more support for abusers in the church than for victims, it is sickening.  

Edited June 16, 2018 by changed

[USU78]

9 minutes ago, changed said:

Parents did not know.  If you have never been through this sort of thing, it comes down to the grooming process.... 

In my case, one of the kids was unable to talk...  the situation was taken care of - not by the church - but by the person's employer who discovered what he was doing on the computer.... The church knew quite a bit - knew why this person's first marriage had ended (did not warn the second wife), knew he had attended addiction recovery groups etc. etc. and still called him to leadership positions.  

Addiction recovery groups that are not led by trained professionals... and spouse and friends support groups that are not led by trained professionals, and a culture of "if you do not forgive, yours is the greater sin"... with leaders never telling anyone they should get divorced etc. etc.  this is a big problem.  ... I have seen victim shaming.... this thing, it has been - hug and love the abuser, avoid the victims.   There is so much more support for abusers in the church than for victims it is sickening.  

Naivete. Justice through the courts isn't achievable. At best they approach an approximation of a spectre of a closish neighbor of justice. But it's the best public institutions can achieve.

Cynical mocking of the necessary steps in the search for healing is hardly helpful. There is no transitive law making your perceptions a magical stencil applicable in every home. Your offering here is a burlesque nearly as silly as Samson's.

Edited June 16, 2018 by USU78

[smac97]

18 hours ago, Classicslover said:

This presupposes that I stand up for truth against false doctrine. You should try it sometime. It's what the Lord expects of us.

If the "everyone" in question believes that the earth is flat...then yes.

Means that you are doubting the Native American before you about experiencing racist abuse in the Church.

This is why racist abuse continues. You are aiding and abetting by doubting the victim.

Is this a racist thing on your part? I hope not.

What do the Church guidelines say about abuse?

I seem to be antagonizing you, even to the point of you pulling the race card.  Not sure what that's about, since I've said nothing disparaging about your race.

Perhaps we should just avoid each other for the time being.

Thanks,

-Smac

[changed]

53 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Naivete. Justice through the courts isn't achievable. At best they approach an approximation of a spectre of a closish neighbor of justice. But it's the best public institutions can achieve.

Cynical mocking of the necessary steps in the search for healing is hardly helpful. There is no transitive law making your perceptions a magical stencil applicable in every home. Your offering here is a burlesque nearly as silly as Samson's.

Victim shaming - great.

Here is an experiment for you - go to: https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng

and count the number of "Individuals who struggle with addiction" groups, the support given to abusers... 

then count the number of "Family members and friends of those who struggle with addiction" groups....the support given to victims...

In my zip it is 9 groups for addicts/abusers, and only 4 groups for victims - and the location for the victim groups is way far away and unreachable.  

I am not being cyincal.

• Addiction groups are not led by trained professionals.
• Support is more available for abusers than victims
• background checks are not performed for those in leadership positions.

Can anyone refute the above?  

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by changed

[Avatar4321]

23 minutes ago, changed said:

Victim shaming - great.

Here is an experiment for you - go to: https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng

and count the number of "Individuals who struggle with addiction" groups, the support given to abusers... 

then count the number of "Family members and friends of those who struggle with addiction" groups....the support given to victims...

In my zip it is 9 groups for addicts/abusers, and only 4 groups for victims - and the location for the victim groups is way far away and unreachable.  

I am not being cyincal.

• Addiction groups are not led by trained professionals.
• Support is more available for abusers than victims
• background checks are not performed for those in leadership positions.

Can anyone refute the above?  

 

 

 

One of the reasons the church exists to help sinners to repent. Victims don’t need to repent of anything. The healing for victims that comes through the atonement using comes from personal prayer and discussion with bishops or close friends.

what exactly do you think we should do for victims that isn’t done?

[changed]

1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said:

One of the reasons the church exists to help sinners to repent. Victims don’t need to repent of anything. The healing for victims that comes through the atonement using comes from personal prayer and discussion with bishops or close friends.

what exactly do you think we should do for victims that isn’t done?

 

The church is for sinners, not for victims?  Personal prayer, personally study the atonement and forgiveness - all personal things PPI's (you expect women and children who have been victims by men to go into a room - alone - with a man??? and be ok with that???)   - personal - on your own - no support - only victims cannot get through this stuff on their own.  Support groups for abusers, and yes, victims are left on their own - they are isolated - and expected to get through everything on their own.  

My painful experience - victims were shunned, avoided, and even blamed for bad situations.  I'm dealing with betrayal trauma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal_trauma

Some things the church should do:

Not define gender roles.  Telling women and children that men are "protectors and providers" and they should be dependent on their men?  Do you know what that looks like for someone in an abusive situation???  It is essentially telling women not to protect themselves.  Telling women to stay at home and not be providers - this traps people in abusive situations.

Victims need far more support than the sinners do.  They are broken, empty, hurting - they cannot go to group support if they have no babysitters, they cannot get a job, escape bad situations without support.  They are trapped.  Victims, not sinners, should be the church's #1 priority.  

McKenna Denson is a voice for those who have lost their voice.  I am so glad someone has the guts to speak out about this stuff.  Most cannot - as it bring innocent children and other victims into the lime light.  The treatment of McKenna is... what most victims get unfortunately.  We are all watching her, and how she is treated.

 

The best way to help the sinner?.... sometimes people have to hit rock bottom, or they will not change.  Loving an addict, enabling them, preaching 70 times 7 forgiveness, does this change someone?  In my experience, no.... years and years of children being abused by a "repentant loved sinner" is what I have personally seen.  It would have been better to let the abuser hit rock bottom, to save the kids, than to "watch the women and children burn" as the scriptures teach so that what??? there is no justice in the end.  

 

Poster thread banned for removing mod caution

[Exiled]

On 6/15/2018 at 9:11 AM, provoman said:

ok what changes would prevent or reduce?

 

Have husband and wife team teachers wherever possible. Avoid having singles teach kids as that seems to be a problem area. Have sunday school/primary presidencies sit in and observe. Have bishopricks go through training at least yearly regarding signs of abuse so they might be able to spot abuse situations and situations to avoid. Do away with the criticism of leaders rule. I think that would foster the vigilant member you want to promote. Members should be vigilant and should report abuse to leaders and police and shouldn't ever be afraid of challenging a leader, especially when the leader is in error. It really should be a given that people will be questioned over questionable conduct.

[Exiled]

On 6/15/2018 at 9:14 AM, provoman said:

what "vetting" do you propose would have preventes that from happening? If the abuser does not have a criminal record, what vetti g should be done?

Vetting isn't a guaranty but shouldn't the church do all it can? 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, changed said:

In organizations that do not claim to be led by G-d members can question and critique leadership without the worry of damnation and hellfire.  

Losing one's job is a much more immediate consequence.  I wonder which fear is generally stronger for most people.

[Classicslover]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

OK, now that we've probably gotten off on the wrong foot, let me ask you what tribe or group do you belong to?

My own Native ancestry is Konkow, a northern California tribe of the Maidu people.  We're still not entirely organized on the web level (the council is still "considering" the matter), but the Cultural Association has a website, and as the tribal website administrator, I have a placeholder website up, awaiting final specifications.

Cree...which in and of itself doesn't tell you a lot because there are...wait...what was it? Eight? Divisions based on dialect and geographic location ranging over something like nine provinces, one territory and Montana.

Meaning that even if I spoke Cree...which I don't, I could meet another person of Cree descent and not have any idea what they are saying. 

SO cool that you are the tribal website administrator!

Anyway, there is Mountain Cree, Plains Cree, Swampy Cree. Those are the only names out of the eight that I remember.

[Classicslover]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

My neurological disorder is sleep related, most people see it as sleep disorder, but it is 24/7 these days for me.  You will often see me here at odd hours, rarely in the morning. 

And probably leaves you feeling weak as well, so you may not even be able to use the extra time to do something fun...like learn to tap-dance! But it makes you a top shelf researcher and reader!

[Avatar4321]

2 hours ago, changed said:

 

The church is for sinners, not for victims?  Personal prayer, personally study the atonement and forgiveness - all personal things PPI's (you expect women and children who have been victims by men to go into a room - alone - with a man??? and be ok with that???)   - personal - on your own - no support - only victims cannot get through this stuff on their own.  Support groups for abusers, and yes, victims are left on their own - they are isolated - and expected to get through everything on their own.  

My painful experience - victims were shunned, avoided, and even blamed for bad situations.  I'm dealing with betrayal trauma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrayal_trauma

Some things the church should do:

Not define gender roles.  Telling women and children that men are "protectors and providers" and they should be dependent on their men?  Do you know what that looks like for someone in an abusive situation???  It is essentially telling women not to protect themselves.  Telling women to stay at home and not be providers - this traps people in abusive situations.

Victims need far more support than the sinners do.  They are broken, empty, hurting - they cannot go to group support if they have no babysitters, they cannot get a job, escape bad situations without support.  They are trapped.  Victims, not sinners, should be the church's #1 priority.  

McKenna Denson is a voice for those who have lost their voice.  I am so glad someone has the guts to speak out about this stuff.  Most cannot - as it bring innocent children and other victims into the lime light.  The treatment of McKenna is... what most victims get unfortunately.  We are all watching her, and how she is treated.

 

The best way to help the sinner?.... sometimes people have to hit rock bottom, or they will not change.  Loving an addict, enabling them, preaching 70 times 7 forgiveness, does this change someone?  In my experience, no.... years and years of children being abused by a "repentant loved sinner" is what I have personally seen.  It would have been better to let the abuser hit rock bottom, to save the kids, than to "watch the women and children burn" as the scriptures teach so that what??? there is no justice in the end.  

 

Poster thread banned for removing mod caution

I know he has been banned but it really annoys me when people try to put words in my mouth and completely ignore the question I asked.

but I guess it’s something we have to deal with in life. God bless

[Classicslover]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

So, how many times have you been asked how many wives you have? 🙂 

*chuckles* Several! But my standard response (and please feel free to use it if you desire!) is to say..."We don't do polygamy anymore because of that one scripture: A man can't serve two masters!"

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

When I was in the Army, one guy in my platoon was always trying to find something to pester me about on my religion, like the wives question, until he got married and discovered that the battalion chaplain who was to do the deed was LDS (and very popular with the troops).  When I found this out I asked him in all apparent innocence, "So who's going to marry you?"  He looked sheepishly at me and said "Some Mormon!"  And never pestered me again.  I do have to say that his pestering wasn't vindictive.  We got along fine after that.  But when I came before the promotion board to possibly be advanced to sergeant (which did happen), one of the board members, a staff sergeant in my company, was opposed to my promotion (and I found out later, this was specifically because I was a Mormon).  Fortunately, he was in the minority, and the board president, our battalion sergeant major, made him change his vote.  And back when I was preparing for my mission, and working in a factory, my foreman was a Southern Baptist who liked to call me out on my religion, about how I was going to hell and so forth.  Annoying, but because he didn't extend his bigotry to actual persecution, it was all right in the end.  

Heavenly Father had your back with the guy when he got married!

Totally sucks that you almost lost out on the promotion because of bigotry! But that's the thing: It only continues to happen if the other people allow it.

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

eah, I get really slitty-eyed about situations like you described.  I'm not a violent person, but pounding on people like that always seems to become an idea under consideration when it happens.  I've never been singled out for negativity due to my Indian blood (because I look like a standard white guy), but I react badly to it when I see it.

Tempted to offer a different type of laying on of hands? 

I always try to give them an out.

When I was 17, 7 guys surrounded me and told me they were going to beat me up and they used a lot of not nice words.

I said, "Okay. Try."

Their reply: "What?" (Seems they needed clarification of my two word sentence.)

I said, "You just stated that you all were going to beat me up. And I said Okay. Try. So! Okay...try!"

They all shifted uncomfortably for a few moments, and then the wordless group consensus was to leave.

What they were expecting was for me to recoil in fear or scream in horror or try to run. They suddenly realized that this was not my first rodeo and they did not like their odds.

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Never heard of the place before now -- Wikipedia says it is "Whittle-le-Woods", so you're close enough!  

By the way, I am currently living in England, but I'm a US citizen born in California.  After my wife died in 2015, I married an English lady, and since she was still working and I am retired, I came to England instead of the other way around.  We may switch that up, later.

Yeah I plan on visiting there some day. I can just see it when I come to customs and they ask the purpose of my visit and I reply it is to visit the father land.

I am sorry that your wife died. You probably weren't ready. My Dad has visited me since he passed.

I am so happy that you were able to find your current lovely bride! So epic ally romantic! Across the ocean even!

My wife  was kind enough to divorce me in such a manner that, ultimately, I was NOT all that lingering sad about it. Dodged a bullet, so to speak.

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

For some reason that made me laugh.  Like a cop going out to interview the "usual suspects".

Well the truth is that Mel Brooks could make a movie out of some of this stuff.

It could all use a good mocking!

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Where the heck do you live, anyway?  Sounds like a place to avoid.

  Ha! That was a Christopher Columbus reference! 1492. (Late night humor.)

[Classicslover]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Well, at least he would have had his daily minimum requirement of iron.

Still chuckling.