President Nelson Speaks to Young Adults in Las Vegas - Feb 17, 2018

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, kllindley said:

I think Calm answered that very well.

I agree that what she stated is true and those are important.  But I cannot see that the actions she gave are "appetites" that "are absolutely essential for the perpetuation of life".

 

[kllindley]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

True.  But those actions are not "absolutely essential for the perpetuation of life".

 

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

Love makes people stick around and care for their children and other family members.  Without it, children would be abandoned at birth, women left on their own when pregnant, elderly parents abandoned, etc.

Really? I don't know many newborns who would survive without care. 

I also believe that being loved is a human need. I'm not convinced that a life without love is really a life at all. 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, kllindley said:

 

Really? I don't know many newborns who would survive without care. 

I also believe that being loved is a human need. I'm not convinced that a life without love is really a life at all. 

Reminds me when I was in a serious funk due to a broken engagement. I was lying around the house all day and a friend who had recently  been through something roughly equally devastating in his romantic life dragged me out to eat cheap all you can eat pizza and gorge ourselves in misery. We ate bad food and talked about how the Second Coming will be great because it will burn this stupid world and equally dark thoughts. Finally he said:

”Well, at least we are not alone.......oh wait, we are and that is exactly why we are here getting fat.”

First time I had laughed in weeks. But yeah, love is generally not an optional thing.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I agree that what she stated is true and those are important.  But I cannot see that the actions she gave are "appetites" that "are absolutely essential for the perpetuation of life".

 

One loves others in part out of a need to be loved oneself.  Perhaps you don't see needing the love of a child or grandchild as an appetite, something we are driven to fill...deprive yourself of your children for a significant time and you might see it differently.

[Jeanne]

55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I hope it does not delay their publishing the new COB parking guidelines.

[JulieM]

11 minutes ago, kllindley said:

Really? I don't know many newborns who would survive without care. 

Care doesn’t have to involve love.  Of course ideally it would and children thrive or do better if they feel love.  But they can survive without it.  It’s not “absolutely essential” to perpetuate life.

But to perpetuate life (new life and more posterity) the absolutely essential appetites are:

- Eating

- Drinking

- Procreating (mainly through sex and hopefully Love is involved).

Edited February 20, 2018 by JulieM

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

One loves others in part out of a need to be loved oneself.  Perhaps you don't see needing the love of a child or grandchild as an appetite, something we are driven to fill...deprive yourself of your children for a significant time and you might see it differently.

Also explains why the Single Adult program is one of the most depressing organization in the church. Up there with Friends of Scouting drives.

[CA Steve]

16 minutes ago, kllindley said:

 

Really? I don't know many newborns who would survive without care. 

I also believe that being loved is a human need. I'm not convinced that a life without love is really a life at all. 

None of the examples you or Calm are giving could reasonably be construed to be love that, as President Nelson put it:

Quote

Satan turns natural human appetites into desires and actions that derail the best of spiritual intentions,

So while the examples you gave may be reasonable examples of non sexual love, you need to come up with one that is non sexual and can be used by Satan to tempt us. Otherwise that is exactly what was meant by President Nelson.

Edited February 20, 2018 by CA Steve

[The Nehor]

6 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

None of the examples you or Calm are giving could reasonably be construed to be love that, as President Nelson put it:

So while the examples you gave may be reasonable examples of non sexual love, you need to come up with one that is non sexual and can be used by Satan to tempt us. Otherwise that is exactly what was meant by President Nelson.

Munchausen by Proxy

[ALarson]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

One loves others in part out of a need to be loved oneself.  Perhaps you don't see needing the love of a child or grandchild as an appetite, something we are driven to fill...deprive yourself of your children for a significant time and you might see it differently.

No, I completely understand what you're saying and agree.  But love is not absolutely essential for the perpetuation (continuation) of life.  Eating, drinking and sex ARE absolutely essential appetites if one does not want the human race to die off.  (And yes, I know there are other ways now to reproduce, but you get my point I hope).

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by ALarson

[The Nehor]

Just now, ALarson said:

No, I completely understand what you're saying and agree.  But love is not absolutely essential for the perpetuation (continuation) of life.  Eat, drink and sex ARE essential appetites if one does not want the human race to die off.  (And yes, I know there are other ways now to reproduce, but you get my point I hope).

 

I would argue that without love we would kill ourselves off and not bother to reproduce.

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I would argue that without love we would kill ourselves off and not bother to reproduce.

I don’t know, there are a lot of people who just want sex with no love attached.  Those can get pregnant too 

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, JulieM said:

I don’t know, there are a lot of people who just want sex with no love attached.  Those can get pregnant too 

That sounds fun too. Not as fun as with love attached but still.

Stupid Law of Chastity.  

What I was really saying was that without love of any kind (affection, friendship, romance, charity, whatever) humans would probably die off. 

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, ALarson said:

No, I completely understand what you're saying and agree.  But love is not absolutely essential for the perpetuation (continuation) of life.  Eating, drinking and sex ARE absolutely essential appetites if one does not want the human race to die off.  (And yes, I know there are other ways now to reproduce, but you get my point I hope).

 

Without adults willing to care for children, humanity would die off in one generation.

[JulieM]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

That sounds fun too. Not as fun as with love attached but still.

Stupid Law of Chastity.  

What I was really saying was that without love of any kind (affection, friendship, romance, charity, whatever) humans would probably die off. 

I don’t believe humans would “die off”, but there would be a lot more loneliness. 

[JulieM]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Without adults willing to care for children, humanity would die off in one generation.

But you can care for children and not love them. Love definitely helps, but even some abusive parents care for their children’s physical needs that keep them alive.

Edited February 20, 2018 by JulieM

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, JulieM said:

But you can care for children and not love them. Love definitely helps, but even some abusive parents care for their children’s physical needs that keep them alive.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/24/the-measure-of-a-mothers-love-how-early-deprivation-derails-child-development/

[ALarson]

7 minutes ago, JulieM said:

But you can care for children and not love them. Love definitely helps, but even some abusive parents care for their children’s physical needs that keep them alive.

Very true.  I know many adults who never felt loved as a child and they did not die from it. Even many horribly abused or neglected children do not die.  It's not ideal and it's very sad, but not being loved does not usually result in death.  

I'm not going to continue arguing this.  It seems silly to claim that every child who isn't loved is not going to survive.  Will some possibly die simply from lack of love even if they are physically cared for?  Possibly.

[Calm]

"seems silly to claim that every child who isn't loved is not going to survive"

That isn't what is being argued.

Humanity might survived for some generations if a virus was able to switch off the ability to bond, but severely emotionally deprived children generally do not thrive, abuse is much more common in facilities where emotional bonding is not encouraged, etc.  

Edited February 20, 2018 by Calm

[CA Steve]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

Without adults willing to care for children, humanity would die off in one generation.

Calm,

 

This isn't the type of love that President Nelson is referring to. He specifically qualified the type of love he meant as those that Satan can turn into desires and actions that can derail the best of spiritual intentions.

 

IF you have an example of that kind of love that does not involve sex, then you may have a point.

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Calm,

 

This isn't the type of love that President Nelson is referring to. He specifically qualified the type of love he meant as those that Satan can turn into desires and actions that can derail the best of spiritual intentions.

 

IF you have an example of that kind of love that does not involve sex, then you may have a point.

I think I will wait until the transcription to respond to that.

I was responding to the post comment, the way it was phrased.  The poster (can't remember who it was) may have meant something more nuanced, I may have misunderstood.

Edited February 20, 2018 by Calm

[kllindley]

51 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Munchausen by Proxy

Or loving our kids so much we never tell them no or ask them to do hard things or let them experience consequences at school. 

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, kllindley said:

So, if I understand, you don't believe that a devil exists or that he entices anyone?

I'm just saying that the things President Nelson is referring to don't need a theory involving evil spirits to explain why humans do them. 

If someone wants to argue that such spirits are needed to explain such behavior, I would be interested in seeing the evidence for that.

There may be other things that humans do because evil spirits tinker with our minds and get us to think and do things we otherwise wouldn't, but as far as "eating", "drinking" and "loving" things that we shouldn't, from what I can tell the human brain seems more than capable of having those tendencies and addictions on its own.  Supernatural explanations are usually only needed to explain things that are otherwise inexplicable.

[kllindley]

20 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Calm,

 

This isn't the type of love that President Nelson is referring to. He specifically qualified the type of love he meant as those that Satan can turn into desires and actions that can derail the best of spiritual intentions.

 

IF you have an example of that kind of love that does not involve sex, then you may have a point.

Wouldn't it be possible for Satan to turn, say the love a Home Teacher should have for a single sister he is assigned to care for into an inappropriate emotional affair that definitely derailed what may have otherwise been a good spiritual intention?

It seems that most on this board agreed that even without any sexual activity, the love that such a man developed would not be seen as a good thing. 

[kllindley]

5 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I'm just saying that the things President Nelson is referring to don't need a theory involving evil spirits to explain why humans do them. 

If someone wants to argue that such spirits are needed to explain such behavior, I would be interested in seeing the evidence for that.

There may be other things that humans do because evil spirits tinker with our minds and get us to think and do things we otherwise wouldn't, but as far as "eating", "drinking" and "loving" things that we shouldn't, from what I can tell the human brain seems more than capable of having those tendencies and addictions on its own.  Supernatural explanations are usually only needed to explain things that are otherwise inexplicable.

Um, so are you saying maybe there is a devil and maybe he can influence us in some way, but not in regards to eating, drinking, or loving? I'm not trying to be offensive. I'm genuinely interested in understanding your perspective, and I don't feel like I'm getting it.