mnn727 Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gray said: America is the only country that regularly has mass shootings. It's the guns. America is not the only country that has mass shooting, Remember Paris last year? Norway a few years back. And we won't even discuss Africa and Asia Edited February 16, 2018 by mnn727 4
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: More histrionics. Of course Comrade. NRA is good God-fearing organization and would never be involved in anything shady. Nyet! Never!
Anijen Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Nehor said: The administration is claiming it is a mental health problem after making sure the mentally ill can have assault rifles. Thanks Donny! I am trying to be serious. It would help in a civil discussion if you refrained from the sarcasm or condescending tone. You are NOT more intelligent than all those gun loving deplorables (you are not less intelligent either). It is a mental health problem. How can you not see that? And BTW it is and always has been illegal for the mentally incapacitated to purchase a fire arm (any kind). Quote The problem is most of these cases have warning signs that people insist should have prevented but what is anyone supposed to do with them? We cannot legally take away their firearms. Yes we can take their fire arms away! and we can do it legally. (from the mentally impaired) we can and do take their fire arms away. We can legally do this even if those fire arms were purchased legally. I assisted with a County Attorney in doing this many times. Please do not tell me it isn't happening. Quote We can not commit them to an institution against their will. Do we give them free therapy they will probably not go to? Sure we do. It is called incarceration and believe me it is almost always against their will. Yes we give them "free therapy" (that is if tax payers call this free, but it is free to them) and is usually mandatory if they want probation or out early. I know you were talking mainly about outside the criminal system and more in private society. I agree, I think we need to work on helping out the mentally disabled and place a great deal of focus there. 2
snowflake Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, Gray said: https://www.cnn.com/2013/01/19/us/north-carolina-gun-show-shooting/index.html Countries with strict gun controls have less gun violence and less accidental injury/death. Have you forgotten what happened in Paris? it is impossible to legally get a gun there, yet there was a massacre with assault type firearms. One of the weapons was tracked back to the "fast and furios" operation where the Obama administration sold fully automatic weapons to Mexico...rememeber that? https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/law-enforcement-sources-gun-used-paris-terrorist-attacks-came-phoenix/ 2
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, mnn727 said: America is not the only country that has mass shooting, Remember Paris last year? Norway a few years back. And we won't even discuss Africa and Asia The only developed country. And Paris had one shooting recently. Compare that to our current rate and France has nothing to be ashamed of. France is doing better than we are at this. Ugh, I just got that vomit taste in my mouth after saying that. I think I also need to take a shower. 2
Anijen Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, mnn727 said: America is not the only country that has mass shooting, Remember Paris last year? Norway a few years back. And we won't even discuss Africa and Asia Even England has had a terrible school shooting and that was after their gun control laws. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Of course Comrade. NRA is good God-fearing organization and would never be involved in anything shady. Nyet! Never! Now you're getting really irrational. You need to calm down.
Anijen Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: France is doing better than we are at this. Switzerland with more firearms per capita is also doing better than us. I think we can learn from both countries. 1
snowflake Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, Anijen said: FBI. Wait. Right, it's like one political party creating a fake document against your political opponent, paying millions for it, floating it to the FBI and media, then the FBI knowing that the document is fake, uses it to get a FISA warrant to spy on your political opponent......except that could never happen.
Duncan Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: That's what England tried to do early on. Australia was established as a penal colony. Many of today's Australians are descended from those convicts. which explains why Australians are balanced people, they have chips on both shoulders
mnn727 Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Of course Comrade. NRA is good God-fearing organization and would never be involved in anything shady. Nyet! Never! The NRA is regular people, its not some company, its a bunch of average Americans joining together to get things done - like the AARP etc.
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Anijen said: I am trying to be serious. It would help in a civil discussion if you refrained from the sarcasm or condescending tone. You are NOT more intelligent than all those gun loving deplorables (you are not less intelligent either). It is a mental health problem. How can you not see that? And BTW it is and always has been illegal for the mentally incapacitated to purchase a fire arm (any kind). Yes we can take their fire arms away! and we can do it legally. (from the mentally impaired) we can and do take their fire arms away. We can legally do this even if those fire arms were purchased legally. I assisted with a County Attorney in doing this many times. Please do not tell me it isn't happening. Sure we do. It is called incarceration and believe me it is almost always against their will. Yes we give them "free therapy" (that is if tax payers call this free, but it is free to them) and is usually mandatory if they want probation or out early. I know you were talking mainly about outside the criminal system and more in private society. I agree, I think we need to work on helping out the mentally disabled and place a great deal of focus there. I am not sure if I am capable of turning off sarcasm and condescension. It is my Gift of the Spirit. It is illegal for the mentally disabled to have guns. It is also illegal to buy goods from out of state with no sales tax and then fail to report to the IRS. Without enforcement both laws are worthless. It is not happening consistently and that is not enough. If you are dealing with a County Attorney on this point I would hazard that they already have the gun. So you want to incarcerate this kid for being troubled before he did anything criminal deserving of incarceration? There are probably a few constitutional issues with this.
snowflake Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, The Nehor said: The only developed country. And Paris had one shooting recently. Compare that to our current rate and France has nothing to be ashamed of. France is doing better than we are at this. Ugh, I just got that vomit taste in my mouth after saying that. I think I also need to take a shower. Now that is funny!!! France is better than us in rioting, making stinky cheese and entitlement programs! 1
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, Anijen said: Even England has had a terrible school shooting and that was after their gun control laws. One school shooting? Well, that is definitely the problem we have here across the pond. If it will not stop every school shooting we should not do it. Unless the solution is perfect it is pointless. So we will never do anything. Sounds reasonable.
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 1 minute ago, snowflake said: Now that is funny!!! France is better than us in rioting, making stinky cheese and entitlement programs! Somewhere Zombie Napoleon is laughing at me. One day Nappy.....one day...... 2
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, snowflake said: Right, it's like one political party creating a fake document against your political opponent, paying millions for it, floating it to the FBI and media, then the FBI knowing that the document is fake, uses it to get a FISA warrant to spy on your political opponent......except that could never happen. It never did happen.
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, Anijen said: Switzerland with more firearms per capita is also doing better than us. I think we can learn from both countries. Mandatory military service? We could try it. 1
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, snowflake said: Have you forgotten what happened in Paris? it is impossible to legally get a gun there, yet there was a massacre with assault type firearms. One of the weapons was tracked back to the "fast and furios" operation where the Obama administration sold fully automatic weapons to Mexico...rememeber that? https://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/06/law-enforcement-sources-gun-used-paris-terrorist-attacks-came-phoenix/ Of course, it is Kenyan Barack “The Islamic Shock” Super-Allah Obama’s fault. And if we cannot restrict the flow of assault weapons completely we should not try at all. We should just give them to all school children. After all, there is a chance they might be able to get one anyways.
Robert F. Smith Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Mark Beesley said: .................................. If the States were to call a Constitutional convention today, and IF any inspiration could get through, would the Constution today look like the one “insipred” in the 19th Century? If not, what would look different? Many years ago, a public opinion survey proposed that the first ten amendments to the Constitution be approved. Most members of the public had no idea that these proposals were already part of the Bill of Rights. Ironically, those ten amendments were unacceptable to most people. They had no idea that they were rejecting the basic law of the land. If we had a Constitutional Convention today, it would not look at all like our current Constitution. It would undoubtedly reflect the move to the right which we have been experiencing for several generations now, which would result in a thin veneer of "freedom" masking the rule by oligarchs -- something which we already have a great deal of via special interest lobbying. Money talks, and corporations are now people. Nothing else matters. 1
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, mnn727 said: The NRA is regular people, its not some company, its a bunch of average Americans joining together to get things done - like the AARP etc. That thing being arming people with weapons with little to no hunting or self-defense utility but are explicitly designed for killing lots of people very fast and making sure we do not track if known dangerous people are getting them. Your average American is scary. 1
snowflake Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It never did happen. Michel Steele, fusion GPS?
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Now you're getting really irrational. You need to calm down. It must be PMS. 1
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, snowflake said: Michel Steele, fusion GPS? Compare the facts to your spin. There is quite a gap. 1
The Nehor Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Many years ago, a public opinion survey proposed that the first ten amendments to the Constitution be approved. Most members of the public had no idea that these proposals were already part of the Bill of Rights. Ironically, those ten amendments were unacceptable to most people. They had no idea that they were rejecting the basic law of the land. If we had a Constitutional Convention today, it would not look at all like our current Constitution. It would undoubtedly reflect the move to the right which we have been experiencing for several generations now, which would result in a thin veneer of "freedom" masking the rule by oligarchs -- something which we already have a great deal of via special interest lobbying. Money talks, and corporations are now people. Nothing else matters.
Gray Posted February 16, 2018 Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, bluebell said: Two places in this country that have the strictest gun control 'laws' are also the two places that routinely have mass shootings (schools and military bases). The counties/districts that have the strictest gun control laws in the country also have some of the highest rates of gun violence in the country. While gun control has worked in other countries (especially those more isolated from blackmarket gun sources than the U.S. is), I don't know if we can argue that the United States would have similar results if they did the same thing. For example, the United States has harsh illegal drug laws and penalties (stricter than Australia) while we also have some of the highest rates of illegal drug use in the world, also higher than Australia. Strict control = less use is not a given. History has proven that how US citizens react to something is different than how the citizens of other countries react to it. I do agree though that we need to do something to keep guns out of the hands of these broken people until we can figure out how to stop creating so many of them. The problem is we have a lot of red states with almost no restrictions on gun sales. A lot of the guns used in crime in Illinois are purchased in Indiana. We need stronger federal restrictions.
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