Elder Uchtdorf's New Callings

[JLHPROF]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695279/Church-leaders-announce-new-assignments-for-Elder-Uchtdorf.html

" major assignments for which he is uniquely qualified … and where he is needed most."

• chair of the Missionary Executive Council
• chair of the Correlation Executive Council
• primary contact for the Europe and Europe East Areas

[rongo]

Chair (read: head) of missionary and correlations councils both sound very weighty and influential alone. But both of them?

Remind me again about how he was supposed to have been demoted?  

[hope_for_things]

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865695279/Church-leaders-announce-new-assignments-for-Elder-Uchtdorf.html

" major assignments for which he is uniquely qualified … and where he is needed most."

• chair of the Missionary Executive Council
• chair of the Correlation Executive Council
• primary contact for the Europe and Europe East Areas

The whole Uchtdorf saga is fascinating.  I have no idea what specific assignments all the other members of the quorum have, is this even public knowledge?  Its kind of interesting as Uchtdorf has become a celebrity of sorts within the hierarchy, and we have social media comments from him and all kinds of speculations about whether he was happy or sad about his demotion.  

[hope_for_things]

1 minute ago, rongo said:

Chair (read: head) of missionary and correlations councils both sound very weighty and influential alone. But both of them?

Remind me again about how he was supposed to have been demoted?  

He was demoted in my opinion, but honestly I don't know how to rate and rank these different committee assignments and compare them to a position in the FP.  Do you have a system of some kind to compare the influence of these positions?  

[stemelbow]

SOunds like they've put him on some of the biggest challenges for the Church.  

Who chaired these committees before?   Because it seems like they left him with quite a challenge.  

 

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

He was demoted in my opinion, but honestly I don't know how to rate and rank these different committee assignments and compare them to a position in the FP.  Do you have a system of some kind to compare the influence of these positions?  

You mean other than my shear brilliance? 

[stemelbow]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

Chair (read: head) of missionary and correlations councils both sound very weighty and influential alone. But both of them?

Remind me again about how he was supposed to have been demoted?  

Ok.  He went from one of the top 3 to the group just below that top 3.  Sounds, though, as is sometimes the case in demotions, his work-load has increased.  Hope he can handle it.

[hope_for_things]

5 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Ok.  He went from one of the top 3 to the group just below that top 3.  Sounds, though, as is sometimes the case in demotions, his work-load has increased.  Hope he can handle it.

We don't know if his workload increased or not, we don't know what his old workload was like or how it would compare to these new assignments.  I personally like to think that the men behind the curtain take lots of naps.  

[The Nehor]

40 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

He was demoted in my opinion, but honestly I don't know how to rate and rank these different committee assignments and compare them to a position in the FP.  Do you have a system of some kind to compare the influence of these positions?  

Not as hard as the Committee to Prep for the Second Coming but harder than the Protocols for Ushers Committee.

[Bob Crockett]

46 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

He was demoted in my opinion, but honestly I don't know how to rate and rank these different committee assignments and compare them to a position in the FP.  Do you have a system of some kind to compare the influence of these positions?  

I wonder if the rank and file of the church believe that when a stake presidency is released, and old counselors do not come back as members of the new stake presidency, they are demoted.  There's something in the NT about Jesus chastising the mother of two apostles lobbying with Jesus to have them sit closer to Him. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Bob Crockett

[JLHPROF]

I don't think there was any demotion here.  I think President Nelson chose the counselors he felt were right and for some reason Elder Uchtdorf wasn't one of them.

All of the Apostles and First Presidency sit on various committees and have differing areas of oversight responsibility.

My question is are these major assignments ones that can't be held by a First Presidency counselor?  Or are the assignments held by a First Presidency counselor so time consuming that Elder Uchtdorf couldn't have taken these ones and remained a member of the First Presidency?

[hope_for_things]

18 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I wonder if the rank and file of the church believe that when a stake presidency is released, and old counselors do not come back as members of the new stake presidency, they are demoted.  There's something in the NT about Jesus chastising the mother of two apostles lobbying with Jesus to have them sit closer to Him. 

Probably not, but there isn't much of a tradition of keeping the counselors in stake presidencies, like there is a tradition of keeping the FP counselors, with only few rare exceptions.  Obviously, many people considered it a demotion, otherwise you wouldn't have all the hubbub about it.  

[Robert F. Smith]

57 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

The whole Uchtdorf saga is fascinating.  I have no idea what specific assignments all the other members of the quorum have, is this even public knowledge?  Its kind of interesting as Uchtdorf has become a celebrity of sorts within the hierarchy, and we have social media comments from him and all kinds of speculations about whether he was happy or sad about his demotion.  

 

56 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

He was demoted in my opinion, but honestly I don't know how to rate and rank these different committee assignments and compare them to a position in the FP.  Do you have a system of some kind to compare the influence of these positions?  

Elder Uchtdorf has indeed become a "celebrity" among the Brethren for a variety of reasons, and we live in a time when the masses crave celebrity above all else.  In our narcissistic and Trumpian world nothing else matters.  Moreover, if you are not "top dog," then you are a sorry "also ran."  Luckily for us, God does not measure the value of a man by such idiotic notions.

All the members of the Twelve have committee assignments, and they shift them regularly over the years so that everyone gets to experience each area of concern.  We often know which Brethren are on which committee.  Pres Monson, for example, served on every committee before becoming President.  It goes with the territory.  In Elder Uchtdorf's case, European problems need his specific attention (that won't make any sense if you don't know how the LDS Church is currently doing in Europe).  When he becomes Church President decades from now, it will be important that he know and well understand each area of concern for the Church -- just like a well-trained member of the board of directors of any large corporation.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Probably not, but there isn't much of a tradition of keeping the counselors in stake presidencies, like there is a tradition of keeping the FP counselors, with only few rare exceptions.  Obviously, many people considered it a demotion, otherwise you wouldn't have all the hubbub about it.  

Yeh, but consider the source of that "hubub."  I have yet to hear it from people who have any depth of experience with the Church.  Younger and less experienced members tend to the fallacy of Vox populi, vox Dei.

[hope_for_things]

6 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

We often know which Brethren are on which committee.  Pres Monson, for example, served on every committee before becoming President. 

I understand that they have different assignments from time to time, but I'm not sure we often know which committee the brethren are assigned to.  Are these assignments listed anywhere?  How would we know, and could we compare the assignments Uchtdorf received to assignments that the other members of the quorum have?  

[hope_for_things]

4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yeh, but consider the source of that "hubub."  I have yet to hear it from people who have any depth of experience with the Church.  Younger and less experienced members tend to the fallacy of Vox populi, vox Dei.

Why dismiss those who have questions and concerns this way Robert?  You can just throw out a blanket dismissal of all those in the bloggernacle that are a part of the Mormon community that have what I think are legitimate questions and concerns in this way.  Doesn't seem very empathetic.  I have concerns, does that make me someone without any depth of experience with the church?  I guess compared to some I'm young (in my early 40s).  Maybe my age makes me worthy of a blanket dismissal?  Disappointing...

[Robert F. Smith]

2 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Why dismiss those who have questions and concerns this way Robert?  You can just throw out a blanket dismissal of all those in the bloggernacle that are a part of the Mormon community that have what I think are legitimate questions and concerns in this way.  Doesn't seem very empathetic.  I have concerns, does that make me someone without any depth of experience with the church?  I guess compared to some I'm young (in my early 40s).  Maybe my age makes me worthy of a blanket dismissal?  Disappointing...

Sorry, but your fallacious call to the "hubub" evidence was a dead giveaway that you just don't get it yet.  Your dismissal of restraint merits dismissal of that lack of restraint.  Go ahead and shoot the messenger of bad tidings.  Would you prefer that I curry favor with you by encouraging and enabling your lack of reason?  Maybe we should both blindly fall in the ditch.  At least we could commiserate with one another in our mutual dilemma.  But is that what you really want?  Should we play "Let's pretend"?

[Robert F. Smith]

14 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I understand that they have different assignments from time to time, but I'm not sure we often know which committee the brethren are assigned to.  Are these assignments listed anywhere?  How would we know, and could we compare the assignments Uchtdorf received to assignments that the other members of the quorum have?  

I have never sought to find out which Elder is on which committee, but it doesn't appear to be a secret at all.  For example, years ago we all knew that Elder McConkie was on the Scriptures Publication Committee which superintended the new editions of Scripture, and people even talked about the "McConkieizing" of the footnotes and introductory materials.  Some members of the Twelve will be involved with temples, chapels, genealogy, legal, Scouting, Sunday School, the Church Historical Dept, publication, finances, welfare, etc.  There are many areas to manage, just as there always are in any large corporation.  I assume you realize that the LDS Church is a very large international corporation with vast property and business holdings.

[Bob Crockett]

36 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Probably not, but there isn't much of a tradition of keeping the counselors in stake presidencies, like there is a tradition of keeping the FP counselors, with only few rare exceptions.  Obviously, many people considered it a demotion, otherwise you wouldn't have all the hubbub about it.  

I just don't get why it is legitimate to criticize the church for such a demotion when it is contrary to everything the church has always taught on the subject as well as the NT itself.  

 

[hope_for_things]

35 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sorry, but your fallacious call to the "hubub" evidence was a dead giveaway that you just don't get it yet.  Your dismissal of restraint merits dismissal of that lack of restraint.  Go ahead and shoot the messenger of bad tidings.  Would you prefer that I curry favor with you by encouraging and enabling your lack of reason?  Maybe we should both blindly fall in the ditch.  At least we could commiserate with one another in our mutual dilemma.  But is that what you really want?  Should we play "Let's pretend"?

This is just showing your disdain towards those you disagree with, why not try explaining your disagreement in other terms without making condescending generalizations.  

[hope_for_things]

30 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I have never sought to find out which Elder is on which committee, but it doesn't appear to be a secret at all.  For example, years ago we all knew that Elder McConkie was on the Scriptures Publication Committee which superintended the new editions of Scripture, and people even talked about the "McConkieizing" of the footnotes and introductory materials.  Some members of the Twelve will be involved with temples, chapels, genealogy, legal, Scouting, Sunday School, the Church Historical Dept, publication, finances, welfare, etc.  There are many areas to manage, just as there always are in any large corporation.  I assume you realize that the LDS Church is a very large international corporation with vast property and business holdings.

If this is public knowledge and anyone knows where we could find this information, could you please post a link.  I'm unaware of how to find what committee assignments are out there for the quorum members, and I've done a few google searches without any success.  It wouldn't be difficult for the church to list the assignments of its highest leaders, and many organizations show this information online for public consumption.   Another dig at the end with the "I assume you realize" condescension.  Really, this is getting tiresome.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

50 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Would you prefer that I curry favor with you by encouraging and enabling your lack of reason? 

Well, Robert, I guess we can clearly surmise that you are no graduate of the John Dehlin School of Validating and Celebrating Every Critic's Concerns No Matter How Baseless.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[hope_for_things]

31 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

I just don't get why it is legitimate to criticize the church for such a demotion when it is contrary to everything the church has always taught on the subject as well as the NT itself.  

 

I don't get why people are sensitive to those that believe it was a demotion, or why you consider this a criticism of the church.  I think its just politics, and power dynamics and its present in every organization, and human nature.  Is it always fair, no, but its just the way the world goes round and we have examples of it throughout the history of the world and throughout the history of the LDS church.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, hope_for_things said:

I don't get why people are sensitive to those that believe it was a demotion, or why you consider this a criticism of the church.  I think its just politics, and power dynamics and its present in every organization, and human nature.

I think you have just answered your own question here, mate...

[hope_for_things]

Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

Well, Robert, I guess we can clearly surmise that you are no graduate of the John Dehlin School of Validating and Celebrating Every Critic's Concerns.

Right, because having good etiquette and treating others with respectful dialogue is clearly a tactic of the evil Dehlin and his ilk.