Adam-God and Idolatry

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

That's a loaded post Bobbieaware.  I have to look at each piece.
It's true that the prophets, seers, and revelators today have disavowed Adam-God.  The problem is there is zero evidence they did so with anything beyond their own opinions, just as Brigham taught it with his own opinion.  Neither has any more weight.
But your secondary statement that these things shouldn't be taught is a much more interesting and correct statement.  Mysteries are not for public teaching.  Never have been.  That may be wisdom from our current leaders, even if their doctrinal disavowal carries no revelatory weight.

Joseph Smith

• I am bold to declare I have taught all the strong doctrines publicly, and always teach stronger doctrines in public than in private.
• There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand.  I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen.
• I advise all to go on to perfection, and search deeper and deeper into the mysteries of Godliness. 

Agreed.  Although Abraham 3:19 still applies.

If I revealed all that has been made known to me, scarcely a man on this stand would stay with me.' and 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me. (Joseph Smith)

[mfbukowski]

10 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

If I revealed all that has been made known to me, scarcely a man on this stand would stay with me.' and 'Brethren, if I were to tell you all I know of the kingdom of God, I do know that you would rise up and kill me. (Joseph Smith)

Think about that.  What could anyone say that might cause those present to actually kill their prophet?

John 8:

Quote

48Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? 49Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me. 50And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth. 51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? 54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: 55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

"No man knows my history"

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Think about that.  What could anyone say that might cause those present to actually kill their prophet?

John 8:

"No man knows my history"

I think what the prophet is saying is if many of the “mind-blowing” mysteries of God’s creation and kingdom were revealed to us that they would seem so strange and harshly alien to our present sensibilities that many of us would find it very difficult to believe how they could possibly be holy, wholesome and good. Just one of these strange “cats” that were let out of the bag is the gospel mystery of plural marriage. And as anyone who follows this board can plainly see, that particular principle is still causing much consternation, heartache, perplexity and doubt among many members, and by observing this phenomenon we get a hint of what would happen if other even stranger and harder to countenance “cats” were let out of the bag. The Apostle Paul alluded to this principle when he said:

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Note how in verse 14 Paul tells us the strong and hard to digest meat of the gospel can only be taught to those who are mature and wise enough to be able to rightly discern between GOOD ans EVIL This can only mean one thing, that if those who are spiritually immature have the deeper mysteries revealed to them they will likely reject them as being something evil and ungodly.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[mfbukowski]

16 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

I think what the prophet is saying is if many of the “mind-blowing” mysteries of God’s creation and kingdom were revealed to us that they would seem so strange and harshly alien to our present sensibilities that many of us would find it very difficult to believe how they could possibly be holy, wholesome and good. Just one of these strange “cats” that were let out of the bag is the gospel mystery of plural marriage. And as anyone who follows this board can plainly see, that particular principle is still causing much consternation, heartache, perplexity and doubt among many members, and by observing this phenomenon we get a hint of what would happen if other even stranger and harder to countenance “cats” were let out of the bag. The Apostle Paul alluded to this principle when he said:

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Note how in verse 14 Paul tells us the strong and hard to digest meat of the gospel can only be taught to those who are mature and wise enough to be able to rightly discern between GOOD ans EVIL This can only mean one thing, that if those who are spiritually immature have the deeper mysteries revealed to them they will likely reject them as being something evil and ungodly.

yep

[JLHPROF]

58 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

This can only mean one thing, that if those who are spiritually immature have the deeper mysteries revealed to them they will likely reject them as being something evil and ungodly.

Sounds familiar-

"Some years ago, I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God. That will be a curse to many of the Elders of Israel, because of their folly with regard to it." - Brigham Young 

 

[Bobbieaware]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Sounds familiar-

"Some years ago, I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God. That will be a curse to many of the Elders of Israel, because of their folly with regard to it." - Brigham Young 

 

Could turn out to be so. But if living prophets mean anything to the Church, their counsel to leave this alone for now means none will be damned for not subscribing to it till the time the go-ahead signal may be given to embrace it.

[Meerkat]

On 12/14/2017 at 3:49 PM, JLHPROF said:

And worrying about worshiping a false God is as silly as when evangelicals accuse us of worshiping a false Christ.  There is only one Christ and only one God. 
The difference is in our understanding of their attributes, not their identity.  Now Orson Pratt felt we should worship God's attributes, not God the person.  Brigham disagreed.
If it is the attributes we worship I could see an issue with worshiping a man, but it isn't.  It is the person we worship, regardless of attributes.

You may be right, and you could call it a difference in semantics.  But when the attributes are so different, I lean toward the idea that we worship a different Christ.  My neighbor and I have the same name.  It's our attributes that make us different.

When my Dad died, my faithful neighbor and I had a good conversation about redemption.  Dad attended a church, and took us more out of tradition than faith.  He didn't confess Christ because his integrity was such that he couldn't at that time.  But he lived a life of virtue and love of his fellow man, one of the two the best examples of my life, the other being my Mother.  It was their examples that pointed me to the Gospel.

My neighbor sadly informed me that Dad was going to hell and would reside there forever because he did not confess Christ as his Savior.  The Christ he worships condemned him.  The Christ I worship is filled with mercy, charity and patience.  Mine doesn't condemn children born in infancy, or who never heard the name of Christ.  The God I worship has greater mercy by far, than I do.  He has provided opportunities beyond this life to embrace the Gospel.

Regarding worshipping Adam, even before the Church's recent clarification, the idea of praying to Adam or worshipping him never occurred to me, and I never heard that idea expressed.  There are many mysteries we don't know.  The one thing we do know is we will be judged according to our behavior, or our sincere desire to live a virtuous life.  That means, in my opinion, identify and embrace God's attributes to the best of our ability.

Christ said if we do the thing, we will know the doctrine.  I'm hanging my hat on that, and feel confident that is enough for me.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Meerkat

[Teancum]

On 12/14/2017 at 6:49 PM, JLHPROF said:

Worshiping a "man" couldn't constitute idolatry since in Mormonism God is an exalted man, Christ was a mortal man, etc.
And worrying about worshiping a false God is as silly as when evangelicals accuse us of worshiping a false Christ.  There is only one Christ and only one God. 
The difference is in our understanding of their attributes, not their identity.  Now Orson Pratt felt we should worship God's attributes, not God the person.  Brigham disagreed.
If it is the attributes we worship I could see an issue with worshiping a man, but it isn't.  It is the person we worship, regardless of attributes.

They have and they did.  According to the Church Adam-God is heresy.  That is the current official statement.  (Now, in Brigham's day you could get disciplined for not accepting it and it was taught in the St. George temple.  Its officialism is still some what debated).  But if your concern is about the Church's official statement, it's been made.  Don't worship Adam or believe Adam-God.
If your concern is truth, you need to figure that for yourself.  Church policy doesn't determine what is true.

Joseph taught that eternal life is based on knowing God.  Whether that is the same thing or a reference to a personal relationship has always been a bit vague.
I don't think names matter.  
President Woodruff said

• "Before I sit down I want to say a word to the Elders of Israel on another subject.... Cease troubling yourselves about who God is; who Adam is, who Christ is, who Jehovah is. For heaven's sake, let these things alone. Why trouble yourselves about these things?... God is God. Christ is Christ. The Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost. That should be enough for you and me to know. I say this because we are troubled every little while with inquiries from Elders anxious to know who God is, who Christ is, and who Adam is. I say to the Elders of Israel, stop this.... We have had letter after letter from Elders abroad wanting to know concerning these things. Adam is the first man. He was placed in the Garden of Eden, and is our great progenitor. God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost, are the same yesterday, today, and forever, that should be sufficient for us to know." (Wilford Woodruff, April 7, 1895, Mill. Star 57:355)

and even Brigham Young said

• I propose to speak upon a subject that does not immediately concern your or my welfare. I expect in my remarks I shall allude to things that you search after as being absolutely necessary for salvation in the kingdom of God. It is true if you are faithful, and diligent there are things that will be fully made known to you in due time--at the proper time, according to the will of the Lord.  LDS General Conference -- October 8, 1854

I think that increasing in understanding and doctrine are vital in the gospel (https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-joseph-smith/chapter-22?lang=eng) but if Adam-God troubles a member they should absolutely leave it alone right now, and just keep studying, reading, and praying.  It is the quintessential "put it on the shelf" doctrine.

I tried, but I don't know that that is possible.

How intriguing. It seems LDS leaders have no idea who God really is and what God's attributes are.  Since this, according to Joseph Smith is the first principal of faith and salvation it seems pretty clear the LDS Church is lagging on this.

[co-eternal]

17 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

I think what the prophet is saying is if many of the “mind-blowing” mysteries of God’s creation and kingdom were revealed to us that they would seem so strange and harshly alien to our present sensibilities that many of us would find it very difficult to believe how they could possibly be holy, wholesome and good. Just one of these strange “cats” that were let out of the bag is the gospel mystery of plural marriage. And as anyone who follows this board can plainly see, that particular principle is still causing much consternation, heartache, perplexity and doubt among many members, and by observing this phenomenon we get a hint of what would happen if other even stranger and harder to countenance “cats” were let out of the bag. The Apostle Paul alluded to this principle when he said:

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Note how in verse 14 Paul tells us the strong and hard to digest meat of the gospel can only be taught to those who are mature and wise enough to be able to rightly discern between GOOD ans EVIL This can only mean one thing, that if those who are spiritually immature have the deeper mysteries revealed to them they will likely reject them as being something evil and ungodly.

So maybe the Gospel as we know it IS "baby stories"?

[Josh Khinder]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 4:07 PM, pogi said:

You're fine.  You're not really arguing for or against Adam-God.  That is all I want. 

If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are gods in Mormon canon why not Adam ?

Doctrine and Covenants section 132:

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 

 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

 

 

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Teancum said:

How intriguing. It seems LDS leaders have no idea who God really is and what God's attributes are.  Since this, according to Joseph Smith is the first principal of faith and salvation it seems pretty clear the LDS Church is lagging on this.

Uhhhhhh.....no.

[pogi]

7 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are gods in Mormon canon why not Adam ?

Doctrine and Covenants section 132:

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 

 37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

 

 

There is a big difference between being a God and our Father in Heaven - the Father of our spirits whom we pray to and worship.  It is a matter of lineage and genealogy.

Edited December 20, 2017 by pogi

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, pogi said:

There is a big difference between being a God and our Father in Heaven - the Father of our spirits whom we pray to and worship.  It is a matter of lineage and genealogy.

So you don't care if Adam is God, but you are concerned if he is or isn't the father of our spirits?

Christ isn't the father of our spirits yet he purchased us with his blood and receives us as an inheritance leading to the Book of Mormon calling him our eternal Father.

We will have an eternity of fathers.

[pogi]

43 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

So you don't care if Adam is God, but you are concerned if he is or isn't the father of our spirits?

Christ isn't the father of our spirits yet he purchased us with his blood and receives us as an inheritance leading to the Book of Mormon calling him our eternal Father.

We will have an eternity of fathers.

That doesn't change anything.  It doesn't change spiritual lineage.  That Christ earned the title "eternal Father" as a member of the Godhead, does not diminish from the role of President of the Godhead, the literal Father of Jesus Christ, and of us all, who presides over all.

I don't care if Adam is a God, like many other of my spiritual siblings.  You are right, he is one of many lower case (f)athers, including Abraham (through adoption) and my own biological father, grandfather, etc. down to Adam.  But in my spiritual lineage, they are siblings.  There is only one immediate spiritual Father.  To put any other God (sibling) in His place and give him the glory, honor, and praise that belongs to Father, is disrespectful and a false God to us.

Edited December 20, 2017 by pogi

[Josh Khinder]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

There is a big difference between being a God and our Father in Heaven - the Father of our spirits whom we pray to and worship.  It is a matter of lineage and genealogy.

Doesn't the Book of Mormon teach us to worship and pray to Jesus ? and where in the Book of Mormon does it teach us God the Father is the father of our spirits ? Doesn't the Bible teach Jehovah "Jesus" is Zech 12:1 and Isaiah 44:24 

2 Nephi 11: 24 And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.

3 Nephi 11:

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

 3 Nephi 19:

 18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

[JLHPROF]

36 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

 Doesn't the Bible teach Jehovah "Jesus" is Zech 12:1 and Isaiah 44:24 

Just one of many issues identifying the OT Jehovah as Christ.

[pogi]

14 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Doesn't the Book of Mormon teach us to worship and pray to Jesus ?

No, it doesn't teach us to pray to Jesus.  In the previous chapter, Christ taught the people to "always" pray to the Father in his name.  “Therefore ye must always pray unto the Father in my name,” He declares (3 Ne. 18:19). “Pray in your families unto the Father, always in my name, that your wives and your children may be blessed” (3 Ne. 18:21).  Plenty has been said about this by the prophets.  You can read more about it all over the place with a quick google search. 

I don't understand your point.  Because in one unique instance in the BoM, a group of people prayed to Jesus (contrary to what he just taught them I might add) and because they prayed to Jehovah in the old testament, that it is ok to pray to anybody we want? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. so long as they are Gods?

30 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

and where in the Book of Mormon does it teach us God the Father is the father of our spirits ?

Why are you limiting it to the BoM?  Are you Mormon?  This is pretty basic Mormon doctrine.  Not only is it in the scriptures, but every prophet of God has taught as much.  Do you doubt this or something?

Quote

 

God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22.

Ye are the children of the Lord your God, Deut. 14:1.

there is a spirit in man, Job 32:8.

breath of the Almighty hath given me life, Job 33:4.

Ye are gods … children of the most High, Ps. 82:6.

the spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.

he that giveth breath … and spirit to them that walk, Isa. 42:5.

Ye are the sons of the living God, Hosea 1:10.

Have we not all one father, Mal. 2:10.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father, Matt. 5:48 (3 Ne. 12:48).

Our Father which art in heaven, Matt. 6:9 (3 Ne. 13:9).

we are the offspring of God, Acts 17:29.

Spirit itself beareth witness … we are the children of God, Rom. 8:16.

One God and Father of all, Eph. 4:6.

be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.

he hath created his children, 1 Ne. 17:36.

spirits … taken home to that God who gave them life, Alma 40:11.

from God, for the benefit of the children of God, D&C 46:26.

inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God, D&C 76:24.

spirit of man in the likeness of his person, D&C 77:2.

your Father, who is in heaven, knoweth, D&C 84:83.

spirit and the body are the soul of man, D&C 88:15.

I may testify unto your Father, and your God, D&C 88:75.

man is spirit, D&C 93:33.

God, had created all the children of men, Moses 3:5.

I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh, Moses 6:51.

intelligences that were organized before the world, Abr. 3:22.

See also Luke 23:46; Acts 7:59; Eph. 3:14–15; 5:1.
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/man-a-spirit-child-of-heavenly-father

 

 

 

[Josh Khinder]

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

No, it doesn't teach us to pray to Jesus.  In the previous chapter, Christ taught the people to "always" pray to the Father in his name.  “Therefore ye must always pray unto the Father in my name,” He declares (3 Ne. 18:19). “Pray in your families unto the Father, always in my name, that your wives and your children may be blessed” (3 Ne. 18:21).  Plenty has been said about this by the prophets.  You can read more about it all over the place with a quick google search. 

I don't understand your point.  Because in one unique instance in the BoM, a group of people prayed to Jesus (contrary to what he just taught them I might add) and because they prayed to Jehovah in the old testament, that it is ok to pray to anybody we want? Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. so long as they are Gods?

Why are you limiting it to the BoM?  Are you Mormon?  This is pretty basic Mormon doctrine.  Not only is it in the scriptures, but every prophet of God has taught as much.  Do you doubt this or something ?

You must be forgetting the God of the Old Testament is Jesus ? Which proves by your text he is the creator of our spirits 

 

Selections from Answers to Gospel Questions
Taken from the writings of Joseph Fielding Smith
Tenth President of Mormonism
A course Study for the Melchizedek Priesthood Quorums
1972-73

Lesson 6 page 39

It was Jesus who gave commandments to Adam after he was driven out of the Garden of Eden and who directed Enoch and Noah before the flood. It was Christ who named Abraham and made him that through his posterity all nations would be blessed. He, it was who called Moses to lead Israel out of Egypt and who wrote with his fingers on the tables of stone. He had no body until he was born in Bethlehem.

 

James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

8. Divinely Appointed Judges Called "Gods."-In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called "gods." To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch. Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title "gods." Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Ex. 4:16; 7:1). Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute. The inconsistency of calling human judges "gods," and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds.

 

Footnotes

 

1. John 10:22-39.

 

2. Also rendered Kislev, Chisleu, and Cisleu. See Zech. 7:1.

 

3. Josephus, Antiquities, xii, 5:3-5. See Ezra 6:17, 18;

 

 

2 minutes ago, pogi said:

 

 

[pogi]

7 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

You must be forgetting the God of the Old Testament is Jesus ? Which proves by your text he is the creator of our spirits 

Again, what is your point?  Are you suggesting that we have more than one immediate and literal Father of our spirits, contrary to what every prophet has ever taught?  Are you claiming that Jesus is not our spiritual sibling?  What does this have to do with worshiping Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.?

Yes, Jesus earned the title Father.  He is one with Him.  He is a member of the Godhead.

Edited December 20, 2017 by pogi

[Josh Khinder]

8 minutes ago, pogi said:

Again, what is your point?  Are you suggesting that we have more than one immediate and literal Father of our spirits, contrary to what every prophet has ever taught?  Are you claiming that Jesus is not our spiritual sibling?  What does this have to do with worshiping Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc.?

Yes, Jesus earned the title Father.  He is one with Him.  He is a member of the Godhead.

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach Jesus is our spiritual sibling and yes Jesus is a member of the ONE GOD according to four witnesses in the Book of Mormon

 

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God,   without end. Amen.

 

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God,  to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

 

 

Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God,  in a state of happiness which hath no end.

 

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.  Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

 

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fullness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

 

[Josh Khinder]

2 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach Jesus is our spiritual sibling and yes Jesus is a member of the ONE GOD according to four witnesses in the Book of Mormon

 

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God,   without end. Amen.

 

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God,  to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

 

 

Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God,  in a state of happiness which hath no end.

 

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.  Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

 

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fullness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

 

Interesting how the Book of Mormon agrees with the Trinity doctrine like President Charles W Penrose said 

 

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Interesting how the Book of Mormon agrees with the Trinity doctrine like President Charles W Penrose said 

Quote

Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach Jesus is our spiritual sibling and yes Jesus is a member of the ONE GOD according to four witnesses in the Book of Mormon

So are you a Mormon trinitarian then?  That is weird, but Ok.  What is your point?  For the third or fourth time, what does any of this have to do with praying to Adam, Abraham, Isaac, and any other God?

Edited December 20, 2017 by pogi

[Josh Khinder]

7 minutes ago, pogi said:

So are you a Mormon trinitarian then?  That is weird, but Ok.  What is your point?  For the third or fourth time, what does any of this have to do with praying to Adam, Abraham, Isaac, and any other God?

That's a nice sock-puppet by the way!  

I don't consider Adam, Isaac Jacob or Abraham gods since only ONE GOD exists:

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

 

Book of Moses 1:

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said:

Interesting how the Book of Mormon agrees with the Trinity doctrine like President Charles W Penrose said 

 

"God has three persons"

Yep exactly right.  It's a family which HAS three persons.

The Family called "God" has three persons.

One Family called "God" with three persons in it.

All three are "Gods" just as a family of three Joneses would be all be "Jones", and one would be "a Jones".  The Father would be "a God" the Son would be "a God" etc.

and we are all embryos in the family.

Simple stuff.  Nothing to argue about

Edited December 20, 2017 by mfbukowski

[Josh Khinder]

19 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

"God has three persons"

Yep exactly right.  It's a family which HAS three persons.

The Family called "God" has three persons.

One Family called "God" with three persons in it.

All three are "Gods" just as a family of three Joneses would be all be "Jones", and one would be "a Jones".  The Father would be "a God" the Son would be "a God" etc.

and we are all embryos in the family.

Simple stuff.  Nothing to argue about

The problem with the three gods is that both the Book of Mormon and Bible  teach ONE GOD not "3"

Mark 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

 

Book of Moses 1:

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God,   without end. Amen.

 

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God,  to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

 

 

Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God,  in a state of happiness which hath no end.

 

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.  Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

 

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

President Charles W Penrose agrees 

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fullness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.