Book of mormon

[poptart]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

From what you have been talking about, I think you will really enjoy the book.

Been keeping up with the shakedown of the order of Malta and the Vatican bank?  Looks like pope Francis is pulling a Trump and just firing people.

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, poptart said:

Been keeping up with the shakedown of the order of Malta and the Vatican bank?  Looks like pope Francis is pulling a Trump and just firing people.

You will love this book, then!

[poptart]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

You will love this book, then!

Still amazed that pope Francis spoke infront of Congress in English, even more amazed and disgusted no one listened.  Makes me wonder how long it will survive among Anglos.  The Hispanic friends I have who are Catholic tend to have 2 things in common, little divorce and increasingly higher incomes.

 

Off topic, looks like the pope wants to alter the Lord's prayer.  Still like the German version, love how himelreich translates. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by poptart

[pogi]

On 11/12/2017 at 5:21 PM, poptart said:

If you truly wish to serve there are always orders, or you could always become part time clergy.  I've even considered it when i'm older.  

You mean after you disavow your heathenistic heart?

You are a mystery to me poptart.  

[poptart]

20 minutes ago, pogi said:

You mean after you disavow your heathenistic heart?

You are a mystery to me poptart.  

Considering that pope Francis up recently tried purging the order of Malta of freemasons not to mention the weird people the church attracts why are you surprised?  Google codex gigas sometimes, trust me there are far stranger folk than me in the clergy. 

[pogi]

24 minutes ago, poptart said:

Considering that pope Francis up recently tried purging the order of Malta of freemasons not to mention the weird people the church attracts why are you surprised?  Google codex gigas sometimes, trust me there are far stranger folk than me in the clergy. 

To each his own.  If they will accept you as an open heathen, why not?

[poptart]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

To each his own.  If they will accept you as an open heathen, why not?

Lol you forgot the homosexual tendencies.  

[pogi]

11 minutes ago, poptart said:

Lol you forgot the homosexual tendencies.  

I suspected as much, but wasn't sure. . . that too. 

[poptart]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

I suspected as much, but wasn't sure. . . that too. 

Lol safer bet heteosexual divorce in the USA is very expensive especially when kids are involved. 

[pogi]

25 minutes ago, poptart said:

Lol safer bet heteosexual divorce in the USA is very expensive especially when kids are involved. 

It's enough to drive one gay I tell ya! 

I wasn't aware that heterosexual divorce is more expensive then homosexual divorce.  Sounds like a case for the ACLU, or do they only care about gay equality?

Edited December 13, 2017 by pogi

[poptart]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

It's enough to drive one gay I tell ya! 

I wasn't aware that heterosexual divorce is more expensive then homosexual divorce.  Sounds like a case for the ACLU, or do they only care about gay equality?

Less you can get screwed for in court.  Read up on divorce and child support laws in some states, it can be really easy to get stuck with child support for a kid that's not yours.  For me it's a no brainer, considering it's hard to find someone in the states without kids at a certain point who's decient men are the superior choice. 

[Atheist Mormon]

On 11/12/2017 at 9:06 AM, poptart said:

Do the lds view the book as more important than the bible?  If so, I take it sola scriptora plays no part?

Back when I was an active Mormon, I always thought BoM had the same legitimacy as Bible. There was no "sola scriptora" befor Martin Luther (I could be wrong).

[poptart]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Back when I was an active Mormon, I always thought BoM had the same legitimacy as Bible. There was no "sola scriptora" befor Martin Luther (I could be wrong).

Your right as far as I know, sola scriptora was all Luther.  

[poptart]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:12 PM, pogi said:

You mean after you disavow your heathenistic heart?

You are a mystery to me poptart.  

Also, no such thing as giving up a heathen heart, guarantee you that 'conversion' involved either said person keeping it hidden or they were never really heathen to begin with.  Look at most people who are genuine Christian believers grew up with the religion, have a legit stake in it and as they age like to return to what they knew as children, can' Trump truth and logic lol.

[LittleNipper]

On 11/12/2017 at 10:30 AM, JLHPROF said:

Sola scriptura is not part of Mormonism as we accept continuing revelation and non-canonical truths and teachings.

As to the Book of Mormon being more important than the Bible I reject the use of the word important.  Every word of God is equally important.  The Book of Mormon does have its own special place but I don't consider it any more important than the other standard works.

Forgive me, but does John 3:16 appear in the book of Mormon?

[JLHPROF]

24 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

Forgive me, but does John 3:16 appear in the book of Mormon?

Is there some reason that it should?  The same doctrine of Christ and God's love appear in the Book of Mormon. Is there some reason his conversation with Nicodemus should be in a new world setting?

[poptart]

On 12/15/2017 at 11:10 PM, JLHPROF said:

Is there some reason that it should?  The same doctrine of Christ and God's love appear in the Book of Mormon. Is there some reason his conversation with Nicodemus should be in a new world setting?

Luke 22:36 is more my speed.

[pogi]

On 12/17/2017 at 9:26 AM, poptart said:

Luke 22:36 is more my speed.

Only poptart...! 

Edited December 20, 2017 by pogi

[poptart]

9 hours ago, pogi said:

Only poptart...! 

Did I make you look that up? Also helps if the draft ever comes back and people claim the blessed are the peacemakers verse as an excuse.  Going to be hilarious when you see so many claim religion and those who screech for equality and blame the patriarchy for their problems claim gender as an excuse not to die.

Edited December 20, 2017 by poptart

[Josh Khinder]

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:30 PM, JAHS said:

It is the most correct book because it was translated by the gift and power of God, the work of which was overseen by an angel of God.
The Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book" (TPJS, p. 194).

If that's the case why did President Charles W Penrose admit that really isn't any Mormon doctrine in the Book of Mormon ?

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

 

 

[JAHS]

6 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

If that's the case why did President Charles W Penrose admit that really isn't any Mormon doctrine in the Book of Mormon ?

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covanants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

 

 

I don't see how that is an admission of no Mormon doctrine in the Book of Mormon. The fulness of the gospel that Christ brought to us is described by Jesus Himself in the Book of Mormon:

“Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.” 
The Savior then reviewed for the Nephites the facts of the Atonement, including the need to repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. (See 3 Ne. 27:13-22.) This then is Christ's own definition of the Gospel. It is the "good news" that He came to tell everyone about. It is recorded in the Book of Mormon; therefore the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel or the "good news" of Jesus Christ. Other things He wants us to know have been revealed to us through His latter-day prophets.

[Josh Khinder]

4 hours ago, JAHS said:

I don't see how that is an admission of no Mormon doctrine in the Book of Mormon. The fulness of the gospel that Christ brought to us is described by Jesus Himself in the Book of Mormon:

“Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.” 
The Savior then reviewed for the Nephites the facts of the Atonement, including the need to repent, be baptized, receive the Holy Ghost, and endure to the end. (See 3 Ne. 27:13-22.) This then is Christ's own definition of the Gospel. It is the "good news" that He came to tell everyone about. It is recorded in the Book of Mormon; therefore the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the gospel or the "good news" of Jesus Christ. Other things He wants us to know have been revealed to us through His latter-day prophets.

Sounds like you described the preparatory gospel not the fullness which President Charles W Penrose said was the Trinity .

 

D&C 84:26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;

27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb.

[juliann]

13 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

If that's the case why did President Charles W Penrose admit that really isn't any Mormon doctrine in the Book of Mormon ?

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

 

 

Seriously?  This is what we can expect from you? Cut and paste that conveniently omits the conclusion?  " . . .you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:"  Did you not notice that this punctuation  :   is a notice that something follows?  Let me complete the sentence for you:

Quote

you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear Him, you will learn all about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and the redemption of the dead.

Now that you understand what "fulness of the gospel" means to us, please explain in detail where Penrose ever said that there "isn't any Mormon doctrine" in the BOM.  

[Josh Khinder]

3 minutes ago, juliann said:

Seriously?  This is what we can expect from you? Cut and paste that conveniently omits the conclusion?  " . . .you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:"  Did you not notice that this punctuation  :   is a notice that something follows?  Let me complete the sentence for you:

Now that you understand what "fulness of the gospel" means to us, please explain in detail where Penrose ever said that there "isn't any Mormon doctrine" in the BOM.  

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fullness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

President Charles W. Penrose says many other things pertaining to the gospel aren't found there, here's a small partial list not found in the Book of Mormon 

God has a body of flesh and bones,

 God is an exalted man,

 God is a product of eternal progression,

 There is a plurality of gods (polytheism),

 Men may become gods,

 The Trinity consists of three separate God,

 There is no eternal hell and punishment,

 “Intelligences” are eternal

 The preexistence of humans as spirits,

 Marriage for eternity Three degrees of glory,

 A Mother in heaven,

 A New Testament – era “Melchizidek Priesthood”,

 with the offices and functions of elder,

 high priest, seventy, patriarch, and apostle A New Testament

 – era “Aaronic Priesthood” with the offices and functions of deacon, teacher, priest, and bishop

The functions and offices of evangelists, bishoprics, stake presidencies, apostles, a first presidency, and president of the Church Baptism for the dead and “second-chance salvation”

First and second Counselors, Elder Quorum Presidents, Relief Society Presidents, Wards, Ward Clerks, Stake Presidents, Stake High Councilmen, Regional Representatives ,Sunbeams, Boy scouts, Mia-maids, Temple Recorders, etc.

 

 

[juliann]

2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Sounds like you described the preparatory gospel not the fullness which President Charles W Penrose said was the Trinity .

 

 

Not in that talk he didn't. You aren't relying on original sources, are you.

And as a general rule,  remember, if you are going to insist that religion only be defined by previous centuries and random speakers at a conference, yours will be held to the same standard. Or....we could have a real dialogue.