Book of mormon

[juliann]

7 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fullness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:

General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

President Charles W. Penrose says many other things pertaining to the gospel aren't found there, here's a small partial list not found in the Book of Mormon 

God has a body of flesh and bones,

 God is an exalted man,

 God is a product of eternal progression,

 There is a plurality of gods (polytheism),

 Men may become gods,

 The Trinity consists of three separate God,

 There is no eternal hell and punishment,

 “Intelligences” are eternal

 The preexistence of humans as spirits,

 Marriage for eternity Three degrees of glory,

 A Mother in heaven,

 A New Testament – era “Melchizidek Priesthood”,

 with the offices and functions of elder,

 high priest, seventy, patriarch, and apostle A New Testament

 – era “Aaronic Priesthood” with the offices and functions of deacon, teacher, priest, and bishop

The functions and offices of evangelists, bishoprics, stake presidencies, apostles, a first presidency, and president of the Church Baptism for the dead and “second-chance salvation”

First and second Counselors, Elder Quorum Presidents, Relief Society Presidents, Wards, Ward Clerks, Stake Presidents, Stake High Councilmen, Regional Representatives ,Sunbeams, Boy scouts, Mia-maids, Temple Recorders, etc.

 

 

And what the heck is your point? (You seem oblivious that Penrose was telling those who believed that that they were wrong.)

Edited December 20, 2017 by juliann

[juliann]

It's been awhile since we have had a honest to goodness Christian counter-cultist expecting the same old stuff to produce something different.  :-)

[juliann]

For those actually interested in Charles Penrose......https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/charles-w-penrose-english-mission-years

Charles W. Penrose: The English Mission Years

—

Kenneth W. Godfrey

Charles W. Penrose was indeed a giant among men, and thousands of descendants of his British converts do, in fact, reap the harvest from the gospel seeds he planted. His last name symbolizes, in a rather dramatic way, the life he seemed destined to live. Pen, in the Cornish language, means head, while Ros means valley, and Charles became one of the heads, or chiefs, in the "valleys of the mountains." A well-known Cornish couplet reads, "By Tre, Ros, Pol, Lan and Pen, you may know most of the Cornish men.' It is the purpose of this essay to reintroduce Latter-day Saints to one of the Church's finest leaders, greatest thinkers, most gifted writers, and first-rate proselyters.

[Rain]

 

On 11/12/2017 at 7:49 PM, poptart said:

I dunno, to me this is real sainthood, haven't seen something like this, esp on European soil in a long time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/14/pope-francis-puts-french-priest-murdered-by-isil-extremists-on-p/

To me, those who lose themselves in service will always be the true canidates for sainthood.  After the poverty and misery i've seen it was people like that who raised a finger for me.  I've known Mormons who did too, but they fell along my ideas of sainthood, all they did was volunteer and help the poor and defensless, one was a victims advocate. 

 

On 11/12/2017 at 8:02 PM, poptart said:

Anglicans too, they have St. George of course.  It's not so much that it's a catholic title, they were the church back then and awarded those titles.  Also, they're really the only ones left besides the Orthodox (I think) that hand out sainthood titles.  Um, yeah I very much get my ideas of sainthood from the RCC, I was a baptised Lutheran and did go through RCC Catechism, my ideas of sainthood come right from that.  Esp the latter, I had Catholic family thats all passed away, went to a really good parish for a while and was educated by a parish sister who knew me when I was a total shipwreck mentally, no one would give me the time of day.

I'm glad you had that sister in your life!  I know things have been rough for you so I'm glad there was at least one person who took care of you.

From reading the article it sounds like usually saints are declared not just for poverty and service, but also because of miracles. This story seems more newsworthy because the pope was talking about him becoming a saint without the miracle. Even though the man was a martyr it would be unusual to declare him a saint - at least as far as I understand it. 

I think there are a lot of definitions. You have the declared saint from RCC. You have the saint being a member of my LDS church. Then there are people who are saints because of what they do. 

Yesterday I saw a saint at work. I don't know what religion she is. I know very little about her. What I do know is that she and her 5 teens arrived at an apartment that morning to help move things in for a family of refugees coming from the Congo. The apartment was filthy and likely had bedbugs and various health hazzards. Some of the kids were not real excited about this, but the mom talked with them and they went to work. 

Later the Congolese single mom with 8 children arrived, exhausted, unable to speak English and it is going to be hard for them for the next little while, but at least they started with a much cleaner apartment thanks in part to this mom and teens. This mom is teaching her children to make the world a better place and that makes her a saint in my eyes.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Rain

[clarkgoble]

22 hours ago, juliann said:

And what the heck is your point? (You seem oblivious that Penrose was telling those who believed that that they were wrong.)

It's also worth noting that several items in the list are also wrong. Alma 12-13 does I think discuss the Melchezedek Priesthood. 3 Nephi does I think present God as three persons, although it's not grappling with opposing modalism. Theosis is pretty prominent in the Book of Mormon albeit not presented rhetorically the way it was in Nauvoo. Obviously Jesus is God so teaching God has flesh and bones is extremely prominent in the Book of Mormon (Ether 3 among many places). 

It's also worth noting that the Book of Mormon has only partially been translated and we lost the items on the 116 pages.