Bill “Papa” Lee Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 The Apostle Paul made a number of remarks, about being "Sumblingblocks", to fellow believers. They are as follows... Romans 14: 11-13, "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tounge confess to God. So then shall every one of us shall give account of himself unto God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way". Then the same Apostle writes...1 Corinthians 1:23, "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness". Then in the same book, 1 Corinthians 8:9, (he warns)..."But take heed least by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak". I write this to examine the antics I have seen for the last two days, of the ubiquitous individuals who seek to destroy or disrupt every Temple open house, or Temple dedication, with insulting signs, bad jokes and even bad language for those who come to worship in peace. It is also done every six months, where the Saints gather to worship. Yesterday, there were people who make it a point to look like Brigham Young, this time standing next to him, a man wearing a mask of the devil. The largest website devoted to attacking almost anyone who is not a Calvinust, has now changed his website to model of a now defunct site. Mormons are given time limits of when they may reply, this way their attackers can call those who do not spend, or won't spend everyday "cowards", for not replying. I have a thick skin, or I try to have one, but when I see such actions or antics it hurts, It hurts very much. These people do not seem to care being "stumbling blocks", nor the way it paints how those the seek to offend to view all Christiahs the same as they are. How, with this ever present display keep the hurt inside and take the high road, when all that we hold sacred in the public square is made into sport? How do we not become stumbling blocks, to other believers? Where, or is there any middle ground, with those who have n respect for "freedom of religion"? It is so difficult to close our eyes to such things, in the early days of the Church they would just kill us, but today they are much more sophisticated, and seek only to kill our souls. Thoughts? 1
Guest Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, Rivers said: Not sure I understand the question here. There were many, which one are you unclear about. The overall question is "How do we as Mormons curb such behavior, without becoming "stumbling blocks" ourselves? Do we make a public stand, an Internet stand, or become doormats.
clarkgoble Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 It's interesting as I didn't know the origin of the metaphor. Apparently it goes back to Lev 19:14 "You shall not revile the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God: I am the Lord." I think the idea is a literal blind person walking in the rocky area of Palestine and someone literally putting a rock in front of them to see them trip and fall. To the scriptures you gave it seems like Paul's using the metaphor quite differently in each scripture. So Christ is a stumbling block because of how he's judged. It's not that he's causing Jews to fall in a bad way. Rather, as I interpret it, the Jews judge Jesus the way they'd judge a stumbling block.
Rivers Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Civil and respectful discourse can probably go a long way.
The Nehor Posted November 2, 2017 Posted November 2, 2017 Just now, Rivers said: Civil and respectful discourse can probably go a long way. No, it can't.
Guest Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Rivers said: Civil and respectful discourse can probably go a long way. Many of these people are dragging BoM on ropes daring someone to pick it up, others yelling profanity at women and children, it is not a quiet sit down of coffee, if you will. Most, if not all will not speak to you unless they can film it, with such "films" being heavily edited. So, for most the words "civil" and "respectful", are terms that do not apply
Glenn101 Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: 1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Many of these people are dragging BoM on ropes daring someone to pick it up, others yelling profanity at women and children, it is not a quiet sit down of coffee, if you will. Most, if not all will not speak to you unless they can film it, with such "films" being heavily edited. So, for most the words "civil" and "respectful", are terms that do not apply I believe the Nehor is pretty much on the money here. It does not have to be religion either (or politics). I do not know how many followed the Amanda Knox saga over the years or know anything about it. But I was amazed at the level of hate and vitriol that was (and still is) leveled against her by people that had never met or and only knew her by media reports. You cannot engage directly with such. Rarely will a civil discourse be possible. We were forewarned that such would happen and often just leaving it alone is the best that can be done. (In my opinion.) Glenn 1
Meerkat Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: There were many, which one are you unclear about. The overall question is "How do we as Mormons curb such behavior, without becoming "stumbling blocks" ourselves? Do we make a public stand, an Internet stand, or become doormats. These are good questions. How can we become more like Jesus if we don't experience rejection and controversy? How do we learn to be kind and forgive if we aren't confronted with people who offend us? These are important opportunities for our growth. I believe God has the power to right all wrongs over yonder. In fact I believe those on the front row shaking their fingers at us now will one day learn love and compassion. And part of their education will be the remorse they feel for the way they treated us. I'm grateful for the perspective I gain from Zechariah 13:6, "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends." We are all wrong headed sometimes. At least I am. I'm grateful when the light goes on and I see the value of a hard experience. I become spiritually stronger, as if I have been lifting spiritual weights. Corrie Tenboom was watching a guard beat and berate a young woman prisoner. Corrie asked her sister "What are we to do?" Her sister said "Pray for him." It was only then that Corrie realized her sister was more concerned for the soul of the guard than the mortal life of the young woman. I'm beginning to think we should be thanking God for these opportunities. "Okay, Heavenly Father, I see the test placed before me today. Am I passing it? Did I choose the path toward becoming more like Thee today?" Maybe that is what the Apostle Paul meant when He said in Romans 8:28, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Edited November 3, 2017 by Meerkat 1
nuclearfuels Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 19 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: There were many, which one are you unclear about. The overall question is "How do we as Mormons curb such behavior, without becoming "stumbling blocks" ourselves? Do we make a public stand, an Internet stand, or become doormats. Don't engage with them. Their antics raise eyebrows among non-LDS and so they are performing missionary work for the restored gospel of the Savior. 1
Rivers Posted November 4, 2017 Posted November 4, 2017 On 11/2/2017 at 4:04 PM, The Nehor said: No, it can't.
theplains Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 On 02/11/2017 at 4:40 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: How, with this ever present display keep the hurt inside and take the high road, when all that we hold sacred in the public square is made into sport? How do we not become stumbling blocks, to other believers? Where, or is there any middle ground, with those who have n respect for "freedom of religion"? It is so difficult to close our eyes to such things, in the early days of the Church they would just kill us, but today they are much more sophisticated, and seek only to kill our souls. Thoughts? Religious beliefs and practices are under attack from so many sources. I find that people of old had 'thicker skin' so to speak and could handle insults more easily than those of today. Even a slight word offends people today to the point that you could end up being sued or lose your job. I find the best thing is to agree where you can and respectfully disagree where you can't. If society ever blocks a group's freedom to say what could be considered hate speech, then it's only a matter of time before they block anyone who wishes to share the good news of the Gospel. For example, atheists have every right to portray Christians as fools if they don't believe in evolution. But the key thing is not for Christians to return the favour. Atheists should be able to talk with Christians intelligently (and vice versa) without each group disrespecting the other. This ensures bridges are not burned. And personally, I would not attend an LDS Temple dedication with demeaning signs, slogans, or shouting. But I would approve of sincere conversations. Jim
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