Francis Bernard MormonLeak

[clarkgoble]

So Deseret News is reporting the latest MormonLeaks and I think it's an outrage to the point something ought be done. It's video of Francis Bernard and the police. He of course is being forced to redshirt this year due to unknown honor code violations. But whereas previous leaks were about the church and the corporate meetings this is of a young college kid who had his privacy violated. Unless it was Bernard releasing the video this seems outrageous. 

[ksfisher]

10 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

So Deseret News is reporting the latest MormonLeaks and I think it's an outrage to the point something ought be done. It's video of Francis Bernard and the police. He of course is being forced to redshirt this year due to unknown honor code violations. But whereas previous leaks were about the church and the corporate meetings this is of a young college kid who had his privacy violated. Unless it was Bernard releasing the video this seems outrageous. 

Mormon Leaks is showing that as along as they believe that something is hurtful to the church that they are not concerned with how it hurts others.

[clarkgoble]

24 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Mormon Leaks is showing that as along as they believe that something is hurtful to the church that they are not concerned with how it hurts others.

Worse they gave this ridiculous excuse saying, "publishing this was the hardest decision we've had to make..." Ridiculous. That should have been an easy decision. They then tried to excuse it by tying it to of all things the rape issue from last year. There's nothing on this that remotely suggests any comparison to that. So their excuse of claiming it shines light on the honor code makes things worse. This is so ridiculously over the line into unethical behavior that it's shocking. It's the sort of thing you'd expect the National Inquirer to do to some major figure but some random college student? And as you note they clearly don't give a crap about how it affects others. By their logic any BYU student who does something stupid against the honor code deserves to be exposed on video to shine light on the honor code. It's ridiculous.

Edited August 31, 2017 by clarkgoble

[The Nehor]

Doing this to the scumbags behind this is the hardest decision I have ever made:

 

Nah, I lied. That was easy.

Also, was anyone expecting ethical behavior from these deranged weirdos?

[Calm]

3 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Mormon Leaks is showing that as along as they believe that something is hurtful to the church that they are not concerned with how it hurts others.

  Absolutely wrong. A kid got in trouble.  Let's make it worse and claim it is right to do so in the name of the Great God Transparency.

I think people should start doing background checks on these guys and giving the info that has anything to do with the Church....a picture of them going to church, just anything.... to them to release and report when they don't.  No matter how minute, it is important enough to be posted by their rules it seems.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

  Absolutely wrong. A kid got in trouble.  Let's make it worse and claim it is right to do so in the name of the Great God Transparency.

I think people should start doing background checks on these guys and giving the info that has anything to do with the Church....a picture of them going to church, just anything.... to them to release and report when they don't.  No matter how minute, it is important enough to be posted by their rules it seems.

I'm not going to comment on the ethics of what the MormonLeaks folks do, but my guess is that Ryan would be happy to have people dig into his background (full disclosure: he is the son of my wife's cousin, but I am not involved in MormonLeaks in any way). Generally speaking, I think transparency is a good thing, but leaking for leaking's sake is not an acceptable standard. I haven't followed this stuff at all, so I wouldn't know if that's what they are doing or not. I should ask him to come over here. Might be interesting. 

[stemelbow]

This certainly doesnt' sound like a good thing.  I don't know what he intends to do, if he leaves to another school or tries to stay.  The one thing in the article has me concerned though:

Quote

The Deseret News has learned that Bernard was convicted on charges of noise disturbance and disorderly conduct in two separate incidents that took place in 2016.

If this is seriously about 2 incidents (one in August of last year "noise disturbance" and the disorderly in December) of noise disturbance and disorderly conduct (which I recognize could mean a lot of things) last year, well, then I feel even more terribly for the kid. 

I have a feeling I've likely been noisier and more disorderly in my day and have never had an issue with the law on these matters.  This info is from the sleuthing by the Des news, and might be in the video I dont' know, so it can't be bad to talk about.

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

This certainly doesnt' sound like a good thing.  I don't know what he intends to do, if he leaves to another school or tries to stay.  The one thing in the article has me concerned though:

If this is seriously about 2 incidents (one in August of last year "noise disturbance" and the disorderly in December) of noise disturbance and disorderly conduct (which I recognize could mean a lot of things) last year, well, then I feel even more terribly for the kid. 

I have a feeling I've likely been noisier and more disorderly in my day and have never had an issue with the law on these matters.  This info is from the sleuthing by the Des news, and might be in the video I dont' know, so it can't be bad to talk about.

I think the problem was not quieting down when the police came the first time, and of course, threatening to strangle the landlord (I just watched the video). Reminds me of when I was at BYU. One night during "reading days," we decided to play an impromptu soccer game at midnight by the Harman building; the campus police came because someone from Wymount Terrace had complained about the noise. We shut it down and went home. I suspect that's what you would have done, too. Would that Brother Bernard had done the same. 

[stemelbow]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

threatening to strangle the landlord (I just watched the video).

oops.

[Bernard Gui]

The bit about them not being happy with the way he was supposedly treated by the Honor Code office....that may be what is in their crosshairs. Just for the record, I am the first to say the issue will be the BYU Honor Code, not an unfortunate football player.

Quote

Days later, Bernard’s older brother, James, told The Salt Lake Tribune that Francis would seek a release from BYU in order to transfer to arch-rival Utah. James Bernard expressed his frustration over the way BYU’s Honor Code Office had handled the situation involving Francis.

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[hope_for_things]

8 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

So Deseret News is reporting the latest MormonLeaks and I think it's an outrage to the point something ought be done. It's video of Francis Bernard and the police. He of course is being forced to redshirt this year due to unknown honor code violations. But whereas previous leaks were about the church and the corporate meetings this is of a young college kid who had his privacy violated. Unless it was Bernard releasing the video this seems outrageous. 

Clark,

#1 I'm a big BYU football fan, season ticket holder and have been following the events around Francis Bernard before the leak, he is an excellent linebacker and having him out for BYU is a huge loss to their defense.

#2 I've been watching the reactions on twitter and some people seem mad at MormonLeaks over this video release.  I personally am mad at whoever took the video and decided to make it public because it really doesn't show anything illegal going on and for that reason I think private behavior generally should be kept private.  However, I'm not sure why people are mad at MormonLeaks specifically, because they didn't record the video, the individual who recorded it (looked like the apartment manager perhaps to me) is the one to blame here, and if that person had chosen to just post this on Youtube instead of using MormonLeaks it still would eventually get around to everyone anyway.  I remember many other videos in recent years that cycled around without MormonLeaks help and this is just part of what we have to deal with in an information age with lots of video recordings going on.  

#3 I think the Honor Code needs to be updated.  Before this leak I've talked to multiple other BYU fans about Bernard being suspended for 1 yr, some of them very orthodox Mormons, and the overwhelming feelings from everyone is that the punishment is too harsh.  One whole year for a HC violation, we don't know what the violation was for, but if its anything to do with curfew and drinking violations, these aren't 1 yr suspension kinds of acts in my opinion.  Let the coach have more say in the matter.  Bernard was practicing throughout all fall camp with the team and by all indications the coach was blindsided by this HC decision.   As evidenced by the sexual assault practices the HC system has some serious flaws and needs to be updated and improved on.  

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

3 I think the Honor Code needs to be updated.  Before this leak I've talked to multiple other BYU fans about Bernard being suspended for 1 yr, some of them very orthodox Mormons, and the overwhelming feelings from everyone is that the punishment is too harsh.  One whole year for a HC violation, we don't know what the violation was for, but if its anything to do with curfew and drinking violations, these aren't 1 yr suspension kinds of acts in my opinion.  Let the coach have more say in the matter.  Bernard was practicing throughout all fall camp with the team and by all indications the coach was blindsided by this HC decision.   As evidenced by the sexual assault practices the HC system has some serious flaws and needs to be updated and improved on.  

Shhhhaaaazzzzaaammmmm!

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, hope_for_things said:

Clark,

#1 I'm a big BYU football fan, season ticket holder and have been following the events around Francis Bernard before the leak, he is an excellent linebacker and having him out for BYU is a huge loss to their defense.

#2 I've been watching the reactions on twitter and some people seem mad at MormonLeaks over this video release.  I personally am mad at whoever took the video and decided to make it public because it really doesn't show anything illegal going on and for that reason I think private behavior generally should be kept private.  However, I'm not sure why people are mad at MormonLeaks specifically, because they didn't record the video, the individual who recorded it (looked like the apartment manager perhaps to me) is the one to blame here, and if that person had chosen to just post this on Youtube instead of using MormonLeaks it still would eventually get around to everyone anyway.  I remember many other videos in recent years that cycled around without MormonLeaks help and this is just part of what we have to deal with in an information age with lots of video recordings going on.  

#3 I think the Honor Code needs to be updated.  Before this leak I've talked to multiple other BYU fans about Bernard being suspended for 1 yr, some of them very orthodox Mormons, and the overwhelming feelings from everyone is that the punishment is too harsh.  One whole year for a HC violation, we don't know what the violation was for, but if its anything to do with curfew and drinking violations, these aren't 1 yr suspension kinds of acts in my opinion.  Let the coach have more say in the matter.  Bernard was practicing throughout all fall camp with the team and by all indications the coach was blindsided by this HC decision.   As evidenced by the sexual assault practices the HC system has some serious flaws and needs to be updated and improved on.  

I am still a huge BYU fan, too, so this whole situation makes me very unhappy. From what I saw on the video, it looks like the apartment manager took the video, so I would assume he or someone connected to him gave the video to ML. The police officer hints pretty clearly that he is seeing Honor Code violations in the apartment, though nothing illegal other than the noise. 

And I agree with you that the Honor Code has issues. It seems to be enforced without a lot of consistency. 

[hope_for_things]

8 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

Worse they gave this ridiculous excuse saying, "publishing this was the hardest decision we've had to make..." Ridiculous. That should have been an easy decision. They then tried to excuse it by tying it to of all things the rape issue from last year. There's nothing on this that remotely suggests any comparison to that. So their excuse of claiming it shines light on the honor code makes things worse. This is so ridiculously over the line into unethical behavior that it's shocking. It's the sort of thing you'd expect the National Inquirer to do to some major figure but some random college student? And as you note they clearly don't give a crap about how it affects others. By their logic any BYU student who does something stupid against the honor code deserves to be exposed on video to shine light on the honor code. It's ridiculous.

I still don't see why MormonLeaks is to blame.  They are just a platform for the dissemination of information.  The person who recorded the video is where your blame should lie.  Can you explain why you think this is unethical behavior?  I agree with you that I don't like this kind of a video being recorded because I think its a violation of privacy and common decency, but I don't quite understand your full outrage.  Isn't this just a fact of living in our modern technological world?  

Also, do you think the honor code is above scrutiny?  In light of recent events (sexual harassment scandal), I would think the HC deserves some additional light being shown on it.  

[hope_for_things]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Shhhhaaaazzzzaaammmmm!

In addition, I've read where former BYU football players have expressed upset about the Honor Code, many of these players had their own run ins with the HC back in the Lavell Edwards days.  Overwhelmingly from what I'm reading these players are upset about how the HC is enforcing things and would like to see the coaches have more say in how punishments are enforced.  This isn't an isolated issue with Bernard, but has been a growing issue in recent years and is a concern for many that follow BYU and the program.  

[Pete Ahlstrom]

I would blame the landlord as well.  It looks like he was probably the source.  What was he thinking in recording this in the first place and then sending it to mormonleaks?  Mr. Bernard is a kid who maybe shouldn't be at BYU in the first place but shining the light on him like this is not the solution.  It'll just make it worse for all involved.  I got to agree that this was a poor decision to release the video. 

[stemelbow]

14 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Clark,

#1 I'm a big BYU football fan, season ticket holder and have been following the events around Francis Bernard before the leak, he is an excellent linebacker and having him out for BYU is a huge loss to their defense.

#2 I've been watching the reactions on twitter and some people seem mad at MormonLeaks over this video release.  I personally am mad at whoever took the video and decided to make it public because it really doesn't show anything illegal going on and for that reason I think private behavior generally should be kept private.  However, I'm not sure why people are mad at MormonLeaks specifically, because they didn't record the video, the individual who recorded it (looked like the apartment manager perhaps to me) is the one to blame here, and if that person had chosen to just post this on Youtube instead of using MormonLeaks it still would eventually get around to everyone anyway.  I remember many other videos in recent years that cycled around without MormonLeaks help and this is just part of what we have to deal with in an information age with lots of video recordings going on.  

#3 I think the Honor Code needs to be updated.  Before this leak I've talked to multiple other BYU fans about Bernard being suspended for 1 yr, some of them very orthodox Mormons, and the overwhelming feelings from everyone is that the punishment is too harsh.  One whole year for a HC violation, we don't know what the violation was for, but if its anything to do with curfew and drinking violations, these aren't 1 yr suspension kinds of acts in my opinion.  Let the coach have more say in the matter.  Bernard was practicing throughout all fall camp with the team and by all indications the coach was blindsided by this HC decision.   As evidenced by the sexual assault practices the HC system has some serious flaws and needs to be updated and improved on.  

The video was published by mormonleaks.  Is it somewhere else?  I don't think we know how mormonleaks got the video, even if it was initially captured by the manager or landlord. 

I watched it.  I didn't hear any particular crime that was committed.  Sounds like some disturbance in the middle of the night was reported.  The police came and said they are issuing a ticket this time, as it appears they gave them a pass at some point previously.  I don't know why he's the focus of the police when it seems like a few people were involved.  Or are these just University police?  The Desnews piece talks about Provo city being the source of the misdemeanor charges.  There was some brief allusion to alcohol perhaps being on the premises.  7 people were in a 4 bed apartment, I guess.  The noise was a bit much.  The manager recording seemed like a jerk, but the threats to him were pretty concerning. 

I would think this feels way overblown and he shouldn't have been suspended for a year.  It does seem like Sitake was ready to have him go this year.  perhaps there was another incident this summer that went unreported that brought it all over the top.  You would think it would have been resolved before fall camp started. 

I'd guess he's wanting to transfer.  Sounded like it in the video.  I think the team will be hurt by his absence.  He's a big strong fast linebacker that seemed to be improving. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by stemelbow

[Bernard Gui]

11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I am still a huge BYU fan, too, so this whole situation makes me very unhappy. From what I saw on the video, it looks like the apartment manager took the video, so I would assume he or someone connected to him gave the video to ML. The police officer hints pretty clearly that he is seeing Honor Code violations in the apartment, though nothing illegal other than the noise. 

And I agree with you that the Honor Code has issues. It seems to be enforced without a lot of consistency. 

Shhhhaaaazzzzaaammmmm! Times 2.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

In addition, I've read where former BYU football players have expressed upset about the Honor Code, many of these players had their own run ins with the HC back in the Lavell Edwards days.  Overwhelmingly from what I'm reading these players are upset about how the HC is enforcing things and would like to see the coaches have more say in how punishments are enforced.  This isn't an isolated issue with Bernard, but has been a growing issue in recent years and is a concern for many that follow BYU and the program.  

Shhhhhhaaaazzzaaammmm! Times 3.

[hope_for_things]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I am still a huge BYU fan, too, so this whole situation makes me very unhappy. From what I saw on the video, it looks like the apartment manager took the video, so I would assume he or someone connected to him gave the video to ML. The police officer hints pretty clearly that he is seeing Honor Code violations in the apartment, though nothing illegal other than the noise. 

And I agree with you that the Honor Code has issues. It seems to be enforced without a lot of consistency. 

Cool that you're a BYU fan still, fandom runs deep!  :-)  

Yeah, I assume the other violations that the officer was talking about was having members of the opposite sex in the apartment, but it could have been alcohol too.  I just felt bad for the guy.  Yes he's being stupid, but really how embarrassing for him to have this out in the public.  

 

[The Nehor]

So they should be lenient because it would hurt the football team?

[Pete Ahlstrom]

7 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I still don't see why MormonLeaks is to blame.  They are just a platform for the dissemination of information.  The person who recorded the video is where your blame should lie.  Can you explain why you think this is unethical behavior?  I agree with you that I don't like this kind of a video being recorded because I think its a violation of privacy and common decency, but I don't quite understand your full outrage.  Isn't this just a fact of living in our modern technological world?  

Also, do you think the honor code is above scrutiny?  In light of recent events (sexual harassment scandal), I would think the HC deserves some additional light being shown on it.  

I think if you look at it from Mr. Bernard's perspective, he shouldn't be publicly shamed like this for behavior that is normal for the rest of the world but disapproved of by the church.  There is a potential for him to act out as a result of the unwanted publicity.  He threatened the landlord and maybe this could cause a bad decision to be made.  He's a young man and maybe he isn't well-equipped to handle the spotlight like this.  I know I wouldn't have been at that age and I don't know of anyone who would have been at that age either.  So, I don't think he is the proper vehicle for honor code complaints.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So they should be lenient because it would hurt the football team?

Obviously not.

[clarkgoble]

14 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Cool that you're a BYU fan still, fandom runs deep!  :-)  

Yeah, I assume the other violations that the officer was talking about was having members of the opposite sex in the apartment, but it could have been alcohol too.  I just felt bad for the guy.  Yes he's being stupid, but really how embarrassing for him to have this out in the public.  

Having girls in your apartment after 10:30 is so common it's ridiculous. In most of my sophomore and junior wards they'd have activities where they'd play Disney movies for a big group until late on Friday nights. Not exactly a wild party but equally against the honor code. Just that no one cared.  I'd add we don't know what the honor code office saw as the issue with Bernard so we shouldn't assume this video is all there was. The alcohol is a big deal obviously, although heaven knows back in the day I'd been at BYU parties where some people were drinking. (Including parties with players at them) I've not watched the video so I don't know if it indicates Bernard was drinking or not. I've also been at parties where the police were called because of noise. Again, many of them had players at them. Frankly lots of landlords get to be a bit much on this - although a big part of the problem is mixed use apartments where you have some apartments designated as for singles and then a few for married couples who often have babies. It's almost impossible to be able to have a party at such a place. (Which is a good reason not to rent at mixed use apartments I should note) But I recall one of the last apartments I lived at the guys across the hall had loud parties with girls at them until 3 in the morning most weekends.

Edited August 31, 2017 by clarkgoble

[clarkgoble]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So they should be lenient because it would hurt the football team?

No, but neither should they be harsher IMO. Put an other way, while we don't know what Bernard was redshirted for if it was for this party would an other BYU student have been banned from all extra curricular university activities? Let's say you played intramural sports and the like or perhaps were a dancer. Would they ban you from such activities? (I've never heard of such a thing - although maybe they do in some cases)

Don't get me wrong. BYU has gone through cycles on this. I think Bronco was the perfect coach after a series of excesses where players got away with too much under the last years of LaVelle not to mention Crowton. Bronco installed some much needed discipline especially on the honor code. There was no longer situations where a substantial part of the team was playing drunk at bowl games for instance. But one can go too far the other direction. (Again, to be clear, not knowing what Bernard was actually penalized for)