Francis Bernard MormonLeak

[ALarson]

9 hours ago, clarkgoble said:

So Deseret News is reporting the latest MormonLeaks and I think it's an outrage to the point something ought be done. It's video of Francis Bernard and the police. He of course is being forced to redshirt this year due to unknown honor code violations. But whereas previous leaks were about the church and the corporate meetings this is of a young college kid who had his privacy violated. Unless it was Bernard releasing the video this seems outrageous. 

I wish that MormonLeaks would have refused to release the video, but I'm not sure I'd call it an "outrage".  Your rage should be aimed at the person who took the video and then decided to take it public.  I wonder if MormonLeaks had refused to release it if this person would have found another way or just posted it himself on YouTube?  If it was the manager, it sounds like they'd had problems before (from some things said on the video) and he obviously wanted to hurt and embarrass Francis Bernard or someone close to him who got a hold of the video wanted to.     

I feel awful for Bernard, but then I also believe a person is responsible for their actions.  From what I saw and heard on the video, BYU may not be the best fit for him.  If he had been warned and was still partying so loudly that the police were called again, he wasn't real wise here (especially since he'd already received one ticket and was in trouble for that one).

I don't know much about the honor code problems (other than those publicized regarding sexual assaults earlier this year).  But if that needs to be looked at and more changes need to be made, this could end up being somewhat positive.  I just think this entire episode is unfortunate and I feel bad for this kid (and his family too).

Edited August 31, 2017 by ALarson

[jkwilliams]

Just now, clarkgoble said:

No, but neither should they be harsher IMO. Put an other way, while we don't know what Bernard was redshirted for if it was for this party would an other BYU student have been banned from all extra curricular university activities? Let's say you played intramural sports and the like or perhaps were a dancer. Would they ban you from such activities? (I've never heard of such a thing - although maybe they do in some cases)

Don't get me wrong. BYU has gone through cycles on this. I think Bronco was the perfect coach after a series of excesses where players got away with too much under the last years of LaVelle not to mention Crowton. Bronco installed some much needed discipline especially on the honor code. There was no longer situations where a substantial part of the team was playing drunk at bowl games for instance. But one can go too far the other direction. (Again, to be clear, not knowing what Bernard was actually penalized for)

Agreed. It's the inconsistency of enforcement that has always bothered me. And yes, there's no reason to connect this incident to the suspension, so it's unclear why he was suspended.

[ALarson]

A question I have is if Bernard's 3 roommates were also present, why were the police only speaking to him?  Did the other 3 receive tickets as well I wonder?

Maybe they were but that wasn't video taped (?)

[clarkgoble]

27 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I'd guess he's wanting to transfer.  Sounded like it in the video.  I think the team will be hurt by his absence.  He's a big strong fast linebacker that seemed to be improving. 

He was threatening that for a bit but it seems to have died down. Although after this who knows? He's been at the game on the sidelines and was signing autographs last weekend. I believe he'll may go to New Orleans although he won't play. (Don't know for sure - redshirts often don't go on expensive trips like that but I think Kalani might do it to help Bernard) Kalani I'm sure is working with him well. Kalani is a great guy. I knew him back in the day although I'm sure he's forgotten me. Since Kalani played here during the end of the Lavell era he knows all the stuff that went on and I'm sure he's figuring out how to balance things. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by clarkgoble

[The Nehor]

I can always use more validation for my decision not to go to BYU.  

[Bernard Gui]

I remember once I got busted at registration because my mustaches went over the corner of my mouth. The next day I was demoted from first violins to last chair second violins in the BYU orchestra, and I had to sit out a performance of Prokofiev's Lieutenant Kije, a piece coincidently quite appropriate for this situation.

Quote

In the Russian Imperial Palace, while Tsar Paul I sleeps, a dalliance between two courtiers ends with a shriek which wakens the tsar. Enraged, he demands that his officials produce the culprit or face banishment for life. Meanwhile, a clerk's slip of the pen while compiling a military duty roster results in the inclusion in the list of a fictitious officer, "Lieutenant Kijé". When the tsar inspects the list he is intrigued by this name, and asks that the officer be presented to him. The court officials are too terrified of the tsar to admit that a mistake has been made, and are in a dilemma until it occurs to them to blame "Kijé" for the nocturnal disturbance. They inform the tsar, who duly orders the imaginary lieutenant flogged and sent to Siberia.

When the real culprit confesses, Kijé is pardoned by the tsar and reinstated in the imperial court with the rank of colonel. The courtiers, in fear of the tsar, are forced to extend their creation's phantom career; thus, he supposedly marries the princess Gagarina, after which the tsar grants him lands and money and promotes him to general and commander of the army. When Paul demands Kijé's immediate presence, the cornered officials announce that "General Kijé" has, unfortunately, died. A lavish funeral is held, with full military honours. The parsimonious tsar demands the return of Kijé's fortune, but is told by the courtiers that Kijé has spent the money on high living—in fact, they have stolen it. The tsar denounces Kijé as a thief, and posthumously demotes him from general to private.

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I can always use more validation for my decision not to go to BYU.  

A great place to go, but just keep a low profile and all will be well.....

Edited August 31, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[hope_for_things]

6 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

The video was published by mormonleaks.  Is it somewhere else?  I don't think we know how mormonleaks got the video, even if it was initially captured by the manager or landlord. 

I watched it.  I didn't hear any particular crime that was committed.  Sounds like some disturbance in the middle of the night was reported.  The police came and said they are issuing a ticket this time, as it appears they gave them a pass at some point previously.  I don't know why he's the focus of the police when it seems like a few people were involved.  Or are these just University police?  The Desnews piece talks about Provo city being the source of the misdemeanor charges.  There was some brief allusion to alcohol perhaps being on the premises.  7 people were in a 4 bed apartment, I guess.  The noise was a bit much.  The manager recording seemed like a jerk, but the threats to him were pretty concerning. 

I would think this feels way overblown and he shouldn't have been suspended for a year.  It does seem like Sitake was ready to have him go this year.  perhaps there was another incident this summer that went unreported that brought it all over the top.  You would think it would have been resolved before fall camp started. 

I'd guess he's wanting to transfer.  Sounded like it in the video.  I think the team will be hurt by his absence.  He's a big strong fast linebacker that seemed to be improving. 

The rumors before the leaked video yesterday were that Bernard is still around the program.  On Saturday he was sighted as signing autographs at the game and he's been at practices, not sure what his restrictions are as far as practice is concerned, but some players are saying he's planning to stay now, so we'll see if the transfer thing happens or not.  Hopefully this leaked video will not influence him to leave, but I can't blame him if he decides to go.  

[strappinglad]

Like it or not, fair or not , there is a difference between some Joe Shmo guy breaking the honor code and a recognizable " face" of BYU Football who signs autographs . With celebrity comes increased scrutiny and greater accountability.

[hope_for_things]

43 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Shhhhhhaaaazzzaaammmm! Times 3.

You're reminding me of Count Von Count on sesame street.  One bat ah ah ah, two bats ah ah ah... 

 

[Bernard Gui]

Just for the record, I called the Honor Code target first.

[Bernard Gui]

13 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

You're reminding me of Count Von Count on sesame street.  One bat ah ah ah, two bats ah ah a

The count goes on....as the Honor Code slams pile up. Seven so far.  

Edited August 31, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[ALarson]

5 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Just for the record, I called the Honor Code target first.

And do you agree that changes need to be made or do you disagree with targeting the Honor Code?  

(Just clarifying where you stand on this.  As I've stated, I don't know much about this issue other than what was discussed earlier this year regarding sexual assault cases.)

[hope_for_things]

50 minutes ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I think if you look at it from Mr. Bernard's perspective, he shouldn't be publicly shamed like this for behavior that is normal for the rest of the world but disapproved of by the church.  There is a potential for him to act out as a result of the unwanted publicity.  He threatened the landlord and maybe this could cause a bad decision to be made.  He's a young man and maybe he isn't well-equipped to handle the spotlight like this.  I know I wouldn't have been at that age and I don't know of anyone who would have been at that age either.  So, I don't think he is the proper vehicle for honor code complaints.

I don't like having the video out there and I think its an embarrassment for the player and unfair to him and his family.  But I still don't see why MormonLeaks is being blamed for this, the video was gonna come out anyway because the person who recorded it wanted it made public.  

[hope_for_things]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The count goes on....as the Honor Code slams pile up. 

And it deserves to be slammed, its highly flawed, it continues to change over time, and serious reformation is needed. 

[jkwilliams]

14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The count goes on....as the Honor Code slams pile up. Seven so far.  

Suggesting it isn't perfect and is applied inconsistently hardly constitutes slamming. 

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, ALarson said:

And do you agree that changes need to be made or do you disagree with targeting the Honor Code?  

(Just clarifying where you stand on this.  As I've stated, I don't know much about this issue other than what was discussed earlier this year regarding sexual assault cases.)

I remember a Dilbert cartoon where they were talking about changes in the company. The employees were grumbling. The Boss said all change is good. Dilbert asked if The Boss would change his salary for Dilbert's. The Boss said all change is not good. 

I think this unfortunate fellow is being used to further someone's agenda. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Suggesting it isn't perfect and is applied inconsistently hardly constitutes slamming. 

We shall see. Notice how quickly the conversation turned to the Honor Code.

[Bernard Gui]

5 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

And it deserves to be slammed, its highly flawed, it continues to change over time, and serious reformation is needed. 

Sssshhhhhhhaaaaaazzzzzaaaaammmmm! Times 50.

[ALarson]

1 hour ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

I think if you look at it from Mr. Bernard's perspective, he shouldn't be publicly shamed like this for behavior that is normal for the rest of the world but disapproved of by the church.  There is a potential for him to act out as a result of the unwanted publicity.  He threatened the landlord and maybe this could cause a bad decision to be made.  He's a young man and maybe he isn't well-equipped to handle the spotlight like this. 

I think just like all of us, he's responsible for his own behavior and his own actions.  So if he goes after the landlord (or manger), that's on him (even though I very strongly disagree with the video being taken and made public).  It appears there was already some problems between the two and I also hope it doesn't escalate.

Also, Francis Bernard must know what the honor code states by now (if he didn't read it carefully when he signed it) and he still made the decision to break it (1st ticket) and then break it again (got a warning),  and then again later in the evening (which was recorded).  

Edited August 31, 2017 by ALarson

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We shall see. Notice how quickly the conversation turned to the Honor Code.

Because we all hate the Honor Code, right? 

[clarkgoble]

15 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

I don't like having the video out there and I think its an embarrassment for the player and unfair to him and his family.  But I still don't see why MormonLeaks is being blamed for this, the video was gonna come out anyway because the person who recorded it wanted it made public.  

Again, are you consistent this this criteria? Do you think it's fine that say Gawker hawked the Hulk Hogan sex tape because it would have come out anyway? Are you really comfortable with that ethical criteria? I have to admit I see it as a completely indefensible position.

Edited August 31, 2017 by clarkgoble

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I remember a Dilbert cartoon where they were talking about changes in the company. The employees were grumbling. The Boss said all change is good. Dilbert asked if The Boss would change his salary for Dilbert's. The Boss said all change is not good. 

Well, I guess it remains to be seen if this is a case where change is good.  It seems many believe the Honor Code needs some revisions.  

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think this unfortunate fellow is being used to further someone's agenda. 

He chose to violate the Honor Code that you are defending.  This is on him.  I agree he's "unfortunate" in that what he did was made public (and I don't agree with anyone doing that to a person...), but it doesn't change the fact that he repeatedly broke the Honor Code that he signed.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, ALarson said:

Well, I guess it remains to be seen if this is a case where change is good.  It seems many believe the Honor Code needs some revisions.  

He chose to violate the Honor Code that you are defending.  This is on him.  I agree he's "unfortunate" in that what he did was made public (and I don't agree with anyone doing that to a person...), but it doesn't change the fact that he repeatedly broke the Honor Code that he signed.

Yup. I certainly wouldn't have made this public, and I feel bad for him. I don't have a problem at all with BYU enforcing the Honor Code. My only issue has always been that it seems to be enforced selectively. But it's a huge leap to say that, because I feel that way, I'm furthering an agenda to tear down the university and its sponsoring church. That's silly.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Because we all hate the Honor Code, right? 

I find it odd that adults want to voluntarily saddle themselves with such nanny rules in a kind of extended childhood but I guess that is their decision.