Calm Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, ALarson said: In reading the comments below the article that I linked to above (in the SLT), it appears that Hogan will be stationed at UVU and BYU students will travel there for his classes (if that is correct): ETA: As I continue reading through the comments, it appears there is still confusion about this (where Hogan will be teaching). There have been some classes at UVU and some at BYU all along, I believe....so I was told by a professor. At most, it was going to cause some reversals of numbers...more classes at UVU. UVU students have always had to commute more in the past, it would actually be nice to switch it up every two years if it wasn't costly anyway so both universities shared the time cost of attending. The difference appears to be where the commander has his office, though this is an unofficial transference than the originally planned official one apparently. I will ask my UVU prof husband if he can get better details. Edited August 30, 2017 by Calm
Calm Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, strappinglad said: I have wondered about the relationship between the Church and the Military. Is there a contradiction between the mission statements of each? Mormons don't seem too hesitant to send their children to be trained to , in essence, destroy other children of God. We pray for peace and prepare for war. We seem to have forgotten that the US Gov't was quite ready to use the military to wipe Mormons off the map. Maybe we have come to the conclusion that if we can't beat them we must join them and be a guide from within. We laud the 2000 stripping warriors and their miraculous preservation. There is no record of whether or not PTSD was a problem after what were green recruits were faced with the carnage of hand to hand combat. Mormon Battalion
ksfisher Posted August 30, 2017 Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, strappinglad said: I have wondered about the relationship between the Church and the Military. Is there a contradiction between the mission statements of each? Mormons don't seem too hesitant to send their children to be trained to , in essence, destroy other children of God. We pray for peace and prepare for war. We seem to have forgotten that the US Gov't was quite ready to use the military to wipe Mormons off the map. Maybe we have come to the conclusion that if we can't beat them we must join them and be a guide from within. We laud the 2000 stripping warriors and their miraculous preservation. There is no record of whether or not PTSD was a problem after what were green recruits were faced with the carnage of hand to hand combat. In the Book of Mormon Captain Moroni did not hesitate to prepare his people to defend themselves. Likewise, we should be equally prepared to defend ourselves today. While we may not all agree with the ways that the government has used our troops in the past, we all enjoy the protection that those who serve in the military provide us. "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us." 2
ALarson Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 35 minutes ago, Calm said: There have been some classes at UVU and some at BYU all along, I believe....so I was told by a professor. At most, it was going to cause some reversals of numbers...more classes at UVU. UVU students have always had to commute more in the past, it would actually be nice to switch it up every two years if it wasn't costly anyway so both universities shared the time cost of attending. The difference appears to be where the commander has his office, though this is an unofficial transference than the originally planned official one apparently. I will ask my UVU prof husband if he can get better details. Thanks....it would be great to have more information!
hagoth7 Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 57 minutes ago, Calm said: He is not really serving full time at BYU if he has an office at UVU though. He/she basically is if BYU cadets are still serving and being served.
Calm Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 15 minutes ago, ALarson said: Thanks....it would be great to have more information! He says he will try tomorrow. If the Colonel isn't in, it will be at least Tuesday before he can try again and both he and I will likely forget, so remind me on Tuesday if you don't see a report before then. 1
Calm Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 Just now, hagoth7 said: He/she basically is if BYU cadets are still serving and being served. By that logic, he is also serving full time at UVU...but he only gets paid once I bet.
cdowis Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, Calm said: By that logic, he is also serving full time at UVU...but he only gets paid once I bet. I assume by the Federal Government, not the university where he has an office.
hagoth7 Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Calm said: By that logic, he is also serving full time at UVU...but he only gets paid once I bet. I simply saying that in the 21st century, you can serve a community without having to live on the same street.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 4 hours ago, strappinglad said: I have wondered about the relationship between the Church and the Military. Is there a contradiction between the mission statements of each? Mormons don't seem too hesitant to send their children to be trained to , in essence, destroy other children of God. We pray for peace and prepare for war. We seem to have forgotten that the US Gov't was quite ready to use the military to wipe Mormons off the map. Maybe we have come to the conclusion that if we can't beat them we must join them and be a guide from within. We laud the 2000 stripping warriors and their miraculous preservation. There is no record of whether or not PTSD was a problem after what were green recruits were faced with the carnage of hand to hand combat. The scriptures are clear that God approves of His people taking up arms to preserve their lives and their agency when necessary. It always must be a defensive posture, though.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Calm said: There have been some classes at UVU and some at BYU all along, I believe....so I was told by a professor. At most, it was going to cause some reversals of numbers...more classes at UVU. UVU students have always had to commute more in the past, it would actually be nice to switch it up every two years if it wasn't costly anyway so both universities shared the time cost of attending. The difference appears to be where the commander has his office, though this is an unofficial transference than the originally planned official one apparently. I will ask my UVU prof husband if he can get better details. Our very recently returned missionary son just enrolled in ROTC at UVU. It's the army, though. However, he strongly considered Air Force and would had to have taken his early morning PT classes on the BYU campus. He received his army uniform/equipment at the Wells building at BYU. So there's a lot of intertwining of programs between the ROTC programs at the two schools. 1
sunstoned Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The scriptures are clear that God approves of His people taking up arms to preserve their lives and their agency when necessary. It always must be a defensive posture, though. I wish our country would follow these guidelines. 2
hagoth7 Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: The scriptures are clear that God approves of His people taking up arms to preserve their lives and their agency when necessary. It always must be a defensive posture, though. Not all his people. The main body of Anti-Nephi-Lehites, having other defense options, were never encouraged by Nephite prophets to violate their oath of peace. Edited August 31, 2017 by hagoth7
Calm Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 Husband went into ROTC office today. The man there said as far as UVU's end, nothing has changed. While the Colonel has an office there, he rarely uses it. Apparently that has been typical behavior of other commanders or so was my impression, though it was a brief connection given I was halfway out the door when he called. I will grill him tonight to see if I was accurate or if he has other details.
ALarson Posted August 31, 2017 Posted August 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, Calm said: Husband went into ROTC office today. The man there said as far as UVU's end, nothing has changed. While the Colonel has an office there, he rarely uses it. Apparently that has been typical behavior of other commanders or so was my impression, though it was a brief connection given I was halfway out the door when he called. I will grill him tonight to see if I was accurate or if he has other details. Interesting.....thanks, Calm! I look forward to reading anything else you learn
Calm Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 Nothing really new, save the statement of the guy talking to him was that there was no change anticipated as far as he was aware. There is apparently a captain under the Colonel who shows up more often, but looks like a lot of stuff happens at BYU.
Scott Lloyd Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Calm said: Nothing really new, save the statement of the guy talking to him was that there was no change anticipated as far as he was aware. There is apparently a captain under the Colonel who shows up more often, but looks like a lot of stuff happens at BYU. The AFROTC guy we met with at BYU told us it's a Defense Department decision and that the department has been silent on the matter for lo these many months, which indicates to him it is not a priority with them. If this even is a live issue at this point, my hunch is the Feds will continue to shelf it for the duration of Hogan's assignment, after which the issue will vanish.
Calm Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The AFROTC guy we met with at BYU told us it's a Defense Department decision and that the department has been silent on the matter for lo these many months, which indicates to him it is not a priority with them. If this even is a live issue at this point, my hunch is the Feds will continue to shelf it for the duration of Hogan's assignment, after which the issue will vanish. Or it repeats with the next guy if he or she is not an abstainer...unless BYU adopts a "don't ask, don't tell" approach or silently changes the one year waiver to unlimited time.
Scott Lloyd Posted September 1, 2017 Posted September 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, Calm said: Or it repeats with the next guy if he or she is not an abstainer...unless BYU adopts a "don't ask, don't tell" approach or silently changes the one year waiver to unlimited time. For the moment, Hogan's objection is still an anomaly, one the government seems inclined to ignore. But yes, it's possible it could be the start of a trend.
Okrahomer Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 Sorry for opening an old thread, but this tidbit caught my eye this morning, and I thought some might still be interested. After all the scuttlebutt, it seems like things have calmed considerably. I can't imagine BYU would have received this sort of recognition without the commander playing a significant role in it. Maybe the commander and BYU have learned to exist together peacefully.
Stargazer Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Okrahomer said: Sorry for opening an old thread, but this tidbit caught my eye this morning, and I thought some might still be interested. After all the scuttlebutt, it seems like things have calmed considerably. I can't imagine BYU would have received this sort of recognition without the commander playing a significant role in it. Maybe the commander and BYU have learned to exist together peacefully. Except that this award is from the Army Cadet Command -- the Army and the Air Force have been separate services since about 1947. 2
Prof Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 Okra, The article cited mentions Army ROTC. The commander in question is with Air Force ROTC. Perhaps someone who has been at BYU might be able to tell us if the two programs had much interaction. I've been on campuses where the different ROTC programs had little to no interactions with each other 1
Okrahomer Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, Prof said: Okra, The article cited mentions Army ROTC. The commander in question is with Air Force ROTC. Perhaps someone who has been at BYU might be able to tell us if the two programs had much interaction. I've been on campuses where the different ROTC programs had little to no interactions with each other Oops! You're right. 1
Okrahomer Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Except that this award is from the Army Cadet Command -- the Army and the Air Force have been separate services since about 1947. Oops! Thanks for correcting me. I'm not always such a dufus. 1
Okrahomer Posted April 5, 2018 Posted April 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, Prof said: Perhaps someone who has been at BYU might be able to tell us if the two programs had much interaction. I've been on campuses where the different ROTC programs had little to no interactions with each other They seem to share the Wells ROTC building at BYU: https://marriottschool.byu.edu/army/about/contact-us/ and https://www.afrotcdet855.org/faculty/ 1
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