Hurricane Harvey

[Calm]

On 2017-08-29 at 10:30 AM, Tacenda said:

Does anyone know if any LDS church or stakehouses are opened up to shelter folks? 

Found this on Reddit:

"Spokesman for the city has said that shelter availability is not a problem - main concern is evacuation of people and distribution of goods....The Church opened all meetinghouses to emergency services, and most aren't even being used."

https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaints/comments/6wt8f4/texas_lds_meetinghouse_becomes_shelter_boat/

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Calm

[bsjkki]

The chemical plant has exploded but more explosions are still expected. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/31/explosions-and-smoke-reported-at-flood-hit-arkema-plant-in-texas.html

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The chemical plant has exploded but more explosions are still expected. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/31/explosions-and-smoke-reported-at-flood-hit-arkema-plant-in-texas.html

Yep, came to report this. Gas released is not good for breathing. Stay away.

[jkwilliams]

By the way, thank you to everyone who has donated to help my daughter's family. I have been overwhelmed by the kindness and generosity of our friends. We are truly blessed.

[bsjkki]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yep, came to report this. Gas released is not good for breathing. Stay away.

1 of 9 is burning so this will be a long process. Scary

[bsjkki]

Update on what the church is doing and organizing. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865687855/Mormon-meetinghouse-to-become-Harvey-cleanup-command-center.html Mormon Helping Hands is very well organized. When my family participated with flood clean up, I was impressed with the supplies and organized assignments handed out. The people we helped were very grateful. I had never seen so much mud--it was everywhere. This effort will be ongoing for some time.

[Calm]

I am quite proud of the work Helping Hands has done over the years (though not personally involved in it) and rather sad we have had so many opportunities to practice so we are so efficient in responding these days.

[The Nehor]

One law enforcement officer is in hospital due to inhaling fumes. Unlikely to be more casualties from chemical plant other then damage and possible ecological damage.

DFW panicked today and everyone was buying gas. Reports of price gouging.

Damage estimates keep going up. Due to paucity of flood insurance many will get little financial help. The one bright ray of sunshine is that Texas is a non-recourse state so if someone walks away from their home the mortgage company can only take the property which may be almost worthless. Bad news for banks and mortgage companies. Legal wrangling over whether insurance covers specific damages will start up shortly.

Some businesses are already reopening but it will be weeks before the water is off all the streets and out of all the buildings.

It seems likely Congress will approve relief funding. Some congressmen are (rightly or wrongly) niggling Texas senators and house members for voting against previous relief efforts but not enough to block funding.

The President is taking flak for his visit for not really mentioning the victims or providing a realistic report on the situation. He did make note of how big the crowd of flood victims who showed up to help him was. Tax reform may get pushed back to deal with this instead. Mexico is already mobilizing aid. Due to their geography they have a lot of experience with dealing with this kind of a crisis.

The country as a whole needs Houston's refineries so that will be one big push moving forward.

Already the filth of humanity is coming to feast on the crisis. Scam offers for retroactive flood insurance, organized looting, shady repair contractors, and pie in the sky promises of aid for a small fee are already popping up and are likely to multiply. Be careful down there. 

[strappinglad]

24 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 

Already the filth of humanity is coming to feast on the crisis. Scam offers for retroactive flood insurance, organized looting, shady repair contractors, and pie in the sky promises of aid for a small fee are already popping up and are likely to multiply. Be careful down there. 

There is a special place in He!! for such as these. A man died and went to Hades where he was offered a choice of three places to abide. One room was filled with fire and constant burnings. Another room was freezing with a constant blizzard. The last room had people just standing around having coffee and chatting and in very pleasant weather , but they were standing up to their knees in raw sewage.  The man chose the  last room, went in, got his drink and started chatting. About 10 minutes later a loud claxon sounded and there came a booming voice which said, " OK coffee break is over, back on your heads !! " .

[longview]

52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The President is taking flak for his visit for not really mentioning the victims or providing a realistic report on the situation.

The partisan press ever so ready to demonize Trump and delegitamize his administration.  Providing a "realistic report on the situation?"   Don't be ridiculous.   FEMA is on top of things.  Texas governor is pleased with all the response.    Trump was ahead of the game when he declared disaster status before Harvey even hit shore.  But all the press wants to do is carp about Melania's choice of shoes.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

The partisan press ever so ready to demonize Trump and delegitamize his administration.  Providing a "realistic report on the situation?"   Don't be ridiculous.   FEMA is on top of things.  Texas governor is pleased with all the response.    Trump was ahead of the game when he declared disaster status before Harvey even hit shore.  But all the press wants to do is carp about Melania's choice of shoes.

It is telling that after Katrina dozens of nations offered aid. So far the only nations I have heard offering aid are Mexico and (confusingly) Venezuela. Why do you think that is? What happened so the nations of the world no longer want to help?

It is the job of the President to provide consolation after a crisis of this magnitude and try to pave a way forward. To focus on it. Bush did it. Obama did it. In this case that means talking about the long road ahead to rebuild as this probably the most expensive national disaster in history and will take years to recover from. Trump did neither beyond praising first responders (as an extension of himself) and then ran off to Missouri for another "aren't I great?" rally where he can talk about how huge his crowd is. His surrogates are blathering about partisanship possibly slowing down aid  only either forgetting or ignorant of the fact that disaster relief bills over the last few years are usually opposed by his own party. Like everything else he seeks to make the crisis about himself, considers it solved, then waddles off to the next venue he can feel praised at. This should be his only priority right now other then possibly North Korea. Tax reform that is never going to be passed is not a priority and he is too dumb to realize the magnitude of what is going on in people's lives. If you want to give him credit for declaring a disaster a disaster you can but that does not earn much credit from me. It also took him long enough. The request from the governor came early Friday. Trump did not take action until the hurricane was nearly on top of the coast.

FEMA appears so far to have done a decent job so far despite the cuts to their funding By the current administration. 

The governor of Texas (and his predecessors) are partially responsible for the sheer hubris that contributed to the disaster. We are fortunate it was not much worse. The levees in Houston were designed to last for 50 years and are about 70 years old. They were designed for a city surrounded by farmland and almost no adjustments were made to account for the suburban sprawl reducing the amount of ground available to absorb rainfall and instead funneling it into the reservoirs. Houston is a practically zoning free city and houses were built where they should not have been. Harvey was incredibly bad by itself, made worse because climate change has warmed water in the Gulf, but could have been mitigated by basic urban planning and sensible safeguards. It would still have been bad but not this bad. The Texas government has been irresponsible in maintaining their ability to deal with flooding. There is roughly a 1 inspector to 200 dams ratio in the state and it has been that way for years. If the reservoirs had broken we could easily have ended up with a five figure death toll. In fact they could still breach.

The question is will we learn anything from this? Will we implement safeguards to mitigate these disasters in the future? Will we start seriously funding infrastructure upgrades to replace our old post-WW2 safeguards? Most likely not. We have a bipartisan will to ignore the  situation. 

Sorry I dragged this back into politics but I look at the stories ahead about families losing everything they have built, the growing list of the dead, and expect to see a few scapegoats sacrificed and nothing to change. Even LDS who believe prophecies of great destructions seem uncaring about weathering these tribulations. When we build our metaphorical buildings without foundations to help them to stand can we really call upon God to save us and expect Him to do so?

This should be a no brainer. I look at the Dutch with their extensive protections due to their own dangers and wonder why we let ourselves get into this state. It should be a political no-brainer. One of those non-political football issues that passes almost unanimously at all levels of the government but no one supports it.

Sorry.

/rant

Correction: Other nations have helped or offered to help. Mexico is likely offering to help to buoy their image. Starving Venezuela probably made their offer as a political stunt. The EU provided satellite tracking that helped a bit. Not a big commitment or sacrifice but better then nothing. Taiwan also offered aid but that is likely a ploy to tick off China. So far the only aid accepted that I know of was Mexico's.

Edited September 1, 2017 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

There is a special place in He!! for such as these. A man died and went to Hades where he was offered a choice of three places to abide. One room was filled with fire and constant burnings. Another room was freezing with a constant blizzard. The last room had people just standing around having coffee and chatting and in very pleasant weather , but they were standing up to their knees in raw sewage.  The man chose the  last room, went in, got his drink and started chatting. About 10 minutes later a loud claxon sounded and there came a booming voice which said, " OK coffee break is over, back on your heads !! " .

Yeah, I think of all the sins of mankind the predatory ones of this nature most capture Cain's Mahanite principle. I am not sure exactly what Corianton did to have his sin placed next to murder but if I had to rate sins it would start with denying the Holy Ghost, then murder, then predatory acts (physical, sexual, financial, emotional, social).

[The Nehor]

Good news. It looks like Irma (another storm on the way) is weakening at the moment. There is no way to be sure of its course. It should make landfall next week. Hopefully it will not hit areas already trying to drain the water they already have.

[The Nehor]

Arkema, the owners of the chemical plant that is exploding and burning is refusing to release an inventory or a facility map.

Their justification? Terrorism.

We are seriously supposed to believe that their burning and exploding facility is a probable terrorist target at this point?

[The Nehor]

Quebec offered blankets, beds, pillows, hygiene products, and skilled manpower trained to restore power grids to help with Harvey. The Texas Secretary of State turned down the offer and asked for their prayers instead.

Aren't those kinds of things the answer to prayers right now?

I realize they may have turned down the offer for legitimate logistical reasons but.....could you have said that instead? We used these guys to help rebuild after Katrina.

Edited September 1, 2017 by The Nehor

[bsjkki]

The plant explosions and fire is full blown. This article contains a lot of images. https://www.mediaite.com/online/fire-breaks-out-at-chemical-plant-in-crosby-tx/

[longview]

19 hours ago, bsjkki said:

The plant explosions and fire is full blown. This article contains a lot of images. https://www.mediaite.com/online/fire-breaks-out-at-chemical-plant-in-crosby-tx/

There is one more bright spot in the news:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/09/01/hurricane-harvey-makes-the-case-for-nuclear-power/#1eb53cc93625

"That the nuclear plant is just fine seemed to irk anti-nuclear groups who don’t want to see nuclear ever performing well, even if it helps the storm-wracked people of south Texas when other power sources are failing.
Three watchdog groups, the Sustainable Energy & Economic Development coalition (SEED), the South Texas Association for Responsible Energy and Beyond Nuclear recklessly urged politicians, the owners, and regulators to shut down the plant because of Harvey, even if it hurt residents, emergency workers and hospitals who desperately need that power.
But the regulators and the State would have none of that nonsense, understanding that these groups just peddle fear. The reactors provide 2,700 MW of power to 2,000,000 customers in the area.
Last summer, a heat wave cooked America with extreme temperatures, affecting most energy production as well as causing fires and water shortages, sucking electricity like crazy to power the cooling necessary to avoid discomfort and even death. According to the National Weather Service, 122 million Americans were under heat alerts.
Fortunately, nuclear power didn’t mind, scoring record capacity factors of 96% and up, with no increase in price. Other energy sources did not fare so well and some gas plants gouged consumers just because they could.
In 2014, a Polar Vortex shut down natural gas and coal plants, and stopped wind turbines and solar generation. But nuclear performed wonderfully and provided more power to the hard-hit northeast than any other source.
Whether it’s hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, heat waves or severe cold, nuclear performs more reliably than anything else. There’s no better reason to retain our nuclear fleet, and even expand it, to give us a diverse energy mix that can handle any natural disaster that can occur.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, longview said:

There is one more bright spot in the news:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/09/01/hurricane-harvey-makes-the-case-for-nuclear-power/#1eb53cc93625

"That the nuclear plant is just fine seemed to irk anti-nuclear groups who don’t want to see nuclear ever performing well, even if it helps the storm-wracked people of south Texas when other power sources are failing.
Three watchdog groups, the Sustainable Energy & Economic Development coalition (SEED), the South Texas Association for Responsible Energy and Beyond Nuclear recklessly urged politicians, the owners, and regulators to shut down the plant because of Harvey, even if it hurt residents, emergency workers and hospitals who desperately need that power.
But the regulators and the State would have none of that nonsense, understanding that these groups just peddle fear. The reactors provide 2,700 MW of power to 2,000,000 customers in the area.
Last summer, a heat wave cooked America with extreme temperatures, affecting most energy production as well as causing fires and water shortages, sucking electricity like crazy to power the cooling necessary to avoid discomfort and even death. According to the National Weather Service, 122 million Americans were under heat alerts.
Fortunately, nuclear power didn’t mind, scoring record capacity factors of 96% and up, with no increase in price. Other energy sources did not fare so well and some gas plants gouged consumers just because they could.
In 2014, a Polar Vortex shut down natural gas and coal plants, and stopped wind turbines and solar generation. But nuclear performed wonderfully and provided more power to the hard-hit northeast than any other source.
Whether it’s hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, heat waves or severe cold, nuclear performs more reliably than anything else. There’s no better reason to retain our nuclear fleet, and even expand it, to give us a diverse energy mix that can handle any natural disaster that can occur.

There were requests to shut down the power plant. They did not but that had less to do with nuclear power being safe (though if done correctly it is safe) and more to do with the fact that the people who built and upgraded that plant knew what they were doing. That sucker is a fortress.Any building built to the level that thing is can survive almost anything.

Other reactors in the country are not so well built. The only problem we have with nuclear power is waste storage. We spent a fortune building a very secure underground storage site in Nevada to let the stuff break down slowly in a safe environment. When it was partially built local congressional leaders (incluudong Senator Reid) got the project shut down. If you want some nightmare fuel look at where and how it is stored now.

I agree we need to start building more nuclear plants. I think first though we need to come up with a permanent disposal solution.

[The Nehor]

Good news for Houston. There is now almost no chance Irma will hit that area. It will hit somewhere on the east coast which will give Houston more time to drain.

[The Nehor]

The Ad****s reservoir is now a foot and some change below spilling over. It may still leak a bit due to erosion. About 107 feet left to drain before it is empty and back to normal.

[longview]

On 9/2/2017 at 9:22 PM, The Nehor said:

The only problem we have with nuclear power is waste storage. We spent a fortune building a very secure underground storage site in Nevada to let the stuff break down slowly in a safe environment. When it was partially built local congressional leaders (incluudong Senator Reid) got the project shut down.

Yucca Mountain Repository was well designed and very secure (see https://www.nei.org/Issues-Policy/Used-Nuclear-Fuel-Management/Disposal-Yucca-Mountain-Repository).  We could have pursued recycling of used nuclear fuel (which would reduce the amount of disposal).

But environmental extremists hate nuclear power stations (even those that are very safe and solid and convenient).  So they attacked the two solutions in order to put a heavy damper on approvals of new nuclear plants.

Edited September 4, 2017 by longview

[bsjkki]

Uchtdorf visits Houston. http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-uchtdorf-visits-texas-hurricane-harvey-aftermath

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, longview said:

Yucca Mountain Repository was well designed and very secure (see https://www.nei.org/Issues-Policy/Used-Nuclear-Fuel-Management/Disposal-Yucca-Mountain-Repository).  We could have pursued recycling of used nuclear fuel (which would reduce the amount of disposal).

But environmental extremists hate nuclear power stations (even those that are very safe and solid and convenient).  So they attacked the two solutions in order to put a heavy damper on approvals of new nuclear plants.

Wrong. Unless you are arguing that 75% of Nevada are environmental extremists. That is a blindly simplistic worldview about the reasons things happen based on typecasting everyone as black hearted villains and pure selfless heroes.

When a site was first searched for there were three states as candidates: Texas, Nevada, and Washington. At the time the Majority Leader was from Washington and the Speaker of the House was from Texas and so they threw it at Nevada. Nevada's citizens hated the idea and never approved of it. Harry Reid based a large portion of his career on killing it and finally got into a position where they could. I have heard you speak forcefully for state's rights and yet for some reason 75% of people of Nevada should have to suck it up and have a facility assigned to them for political reasons they opposed.

If, instead of ramming the facility down Nevada's threat, people had worked on a solution the site would not be a political football. The current Congress is looking at reauthorizing Yucca Mountain but it will probably last until Nevada gets enough clout to kill it again. And money is wasted.

[longview]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I have heard you speak forcefully for state's rights and yet for some reason 75% of people of Nevada should have to suck it up and have a facility assigned to them for political reasons they opposed.

If, instead of ramming the facility down Nevada's threat, people had worked on a solution the site would not be a political football. The current Congress is looking at reauthorizing Yucca Mountain but it will probably last until Nevada gets enough clout to kill it again. And money is wasted.

The LEFT's favorite tactics are to present "scientific studies" (conducted by people of questionable motives or background), publish statistics (warped by incorrect definitions) and public polling (selective population and contrived questions).  I am confident that if Nevada had put this question (should Nevada permit the Repository) to a statewide vote, the normal process for public debate and the pros and cons were fully aired, that there was a good likelihood that Nevada would have voted in favor of it.  I guess it is up to you to provide a reference to this poll you are talking about.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

The LEFT's favorite tactics are to present "scientific studies" (conducted by people of questionable motives or background), publish statistics (warped by incorrect definitions) and public polling (selective population and contrived questions).  I am confident that if Nevada had put this question (should Nevada permit the Repository) to a statewide vote, the normal process for public debate and the pros and cons were fully aired, that there was a good likelihood that Nevada would have voted in favor of it.  I guess it is up to you to provide a reference to this poll you are talking about.

There is not one poll. Polls have been taken for years on the subject and they hover around 75% against.

Yeah, the people behind scientific studies, statistics, and polling are all public menaces and are all involved ina vast conspiracy. Data is the enemy. Ignorance is knowledge! It is pointless to discuss these things with someone like you when you cry "fake news".

So I will reject your CFR on the basis that you yourself suggest it is pointless to reply. Enjoy your ignorance.