Update from Newsroom on Pres. Monson

[Duncan]

5 hours ago, Darren10 said:

"Counselour"? Are you speaking Canadian again?

yessssssssssssssssssssss!

[Alan]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

yessssssssssssssssssssss!

Don't you mean "yessssssssssssssssssssss!... eh"

[Rajah Manchou]

27 minutes ago, Alan said:

Don't you mean "yessssssssssssssssssssss!... eh"

I think he meant "Sorry. yessssssssssssssssssssss!"

[Duncan]

Just now, Rajah Manchou said:

I think he meant "Sorry. yessssssssssssssssssssss!"

and FYI it's not pronounced "Saw-reee"!!!!!! it's "Soar-ree" because of the double "R"

Edited May 24, 2017 by Duncan

[hope_for_things]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He has always been an unassuming man. He has a powerful personality but he would be more like a President Hunter instead of a President Hinckley when in charge.

This is one key difference in modern church leadership. Respect for the office is strong in the Twelve. Even if President Uchtdorf or Holland or someone with that kind of charisma could lead by personality alone they would defer to the man with the Priesthood Keys.

Personality still has a huge effect, I think the Priesthood ban and the drama that played out over a couple decades is one example where one or two hold outs in the quorum kept the church from moving forward timely.  I also just read Prince's biography of Leonard Arrington, and there are multiple examples where politics come into play, where leaders who supported his efforts privately, but wouldn't stand up for him publicly were controlled by those with stronger personalities in the quorum.

Its not always about seniority, but that plays a part as well.  The whole seniority thing seems like more of a tradition, and doesn't have any doctrinal precedent that newer apostles should have less influence than more senior apostles.  Lots of power plays and politics are going on behind the scenes.  

[ksfisher]

43 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

 Lots of power plays and politics are going on behind the scenes.  

Unless you, yourself are privvy to what is going on "behind the scenes" I'm not sure how you could know this.  

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

Unless you, yourself are privvy to what is going on "behind the scenes" I'm not sure how you could know this.  

Huh?  I thought Mormons took pride in accepting things on faith in the experiences of others?  Are you saying firsthand experience is the only kind of testimony that is reliable?  

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Personality still has a huge effect, I think the Priesthood ban and the drama that played out over a couple decades is one example where one or two hold outs in the quorum kept the church from moving forward timely.  I also just read Prince's biography of Leonard Arrington, and there are multiple examples where politics come into play, where leaders who supported his efforts privately, but wouldn't stand up for him publicly were controlled by those with stronger personalities in the quorum.

Its not always about seniority, but that plays a part as well.  The whole seniority thing seems like more of a tradition, and doesn't have any doctrinal precedent that newer apostles should have less influence than more senior apostles.  Lots of power plays and politics are going on behind the scenes.  

I disrespectfully disagree. 

[ksfisher]

58 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Huh?  I thought Mormons took pride in accepting things on faith in the experiences of others?  Are you saying firsthand experience is the only kind of testimony that is reliable?  

We have faith in God and faith in the Savior.  We have faith that the church is led by prophets and apostles through revelation.  We have faith that those same prophets and apostles are led by the Spirit.  We can receive confirmation through that same Spirit of these things.

Are you saying I should have faith in what would seem to amount to gossip as well?

[cinepro]

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

and FYI it's not pronounced "Saw-reee"!!!!!! it's "Soar-ree" because of the double "R"

I love the Canadian pop-hit "Let's Go to the Mall" where they rhyme "sorry" with "Tori"

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Unless you, yourself are privvy to what is going on "behind the scenes" I'm not sure how you could know this.  

I think it's fairly obvious that developments in the past few years such as the Gospel Topics Essays and the implementation and presentation of the baptism-ban for children living with same-sex parents were probably met with varying degrees of support and opinion by different members of the Q12 and FP.

[Duncan]

Just now, cinepro said:

I love the Canadian pop-hit "Let's Go to the Mall" where they rhyme "sorry" with "Tori"

I have literally never ever heard that song before but I have heard of this one

 

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I think it's fairly obvious that developments in the past few years such as the Gospel Topics Essays and the implementation and presentation of the baptism-ban for children living with same-sex parents were probably met with varying degrees of support and opinion by different members of the Q12 and FP.

One could assume as much.  In callings I've had I've had different opinions about what should be done or who should be called.  But when a decision is made I've supported the presiding officers decision.  I would assume that the same is true among the Quorum of the Twelve.  They all have different opinions and would all approach things in a different manner.  But I believe that when decisions are reached by the Twelve and First Presidency that they are reached in unanimity. 

That, however, is entirely different than saying that "lots of politics and power plays are going on behind the scenes." 

And as I pointed out.  To know if something was going on "behind the scenes" one would have to be privy to what was going on behind those scenes to know.  To say otherwise would seem to be nothing but hearsay and gossip.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I disrespectfully disagree. 

I would highly recommend reading some good historical writing that shows many examples of these politics at play.  The Arrington biography is the most recent, but the David O. McKay book by Prince is also a great one, as well as the Kimball biography by his son Ed for more recent examples.  

[Rajah Manchou]

25 minutes ago, cinepro said:

I love the Canadian pop-hit "Let's Go to the Mall" where they rhyme "sorry" with "Tori"

Hah, and 'all about' rhymes with her 'graffiti coat'.

[hope_for_things]

29 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

We have faith in God and faith in the Savior.  We have faith that the church is led by prophets and apostles through revelation.  We have faith that those same prophets and apostles are led by the Spirit.  We can receive confirmation through that same Spirit of these things.

Are you saying I should have faith in what would seem to amount to gossip as well?

Yes, then it seems that you admit you have faith in the experiences of others, as you specifically mention prophets and apostles.  

Surely you would also agree that you have faith in the experiences of others as well, think about family, friends, trusted coworkers and companions, political leaders, etc.  If you believe the experiences of others outside of church leaders, then can you explain where you draw a line with respect to believing in the experiences of others?  

I would ask the same question with your assertion of gossip.  How do you determine what is fact and fiction?  One mans gossip is another mans truth.    

[hope_for_things]

17 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

And as I pointed out.  To know if something was going on "behind the scenes" one would have to be privy to what was going on behind those scenes to know.  To say otherwise would seem to be nothing but hearsay and gossip.

Dictionary.com defines privy as "participating in the knowledge of something private or secret", it doesn't say this knowledge must be obtained through first hand witness.  I listed a few books that I've read with knowledge of things that were private and events that can be corroborated and are highly respected by Mormon historians.  

Of course, if you choose to deny them just because they conflict with your personal paradigm about how you think things should work, that sounds a lot like putting your head in the sand.  

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

 

Of course, if you choose to deny them just because they conflict with your personal paradigm about how you think things should work, that sounds a lot like putting your head in the sand.  

I've read both of the books that you've mention.  Enjoyed both.  Both portray the leaders of the church as having differences of opinions as well as differences in approaches.  I would not describe either as portraying church leadership as a place of power plays and politics as you describe it. 

While I'm examining my personal paradigm I suggest you do the same.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

I've read both of the books that you've mention.  Enjoyed both.  Both portray the leaders of the church as having differences of opinions as well as differences in approaches.  I would not describe either as portraying church leadership as a place of power plays and politics as you describe it. 

While I'm examining my personal paradigm I suggest you do the same.

Good to hear you've read those books.  I guess we interpret the data differently then, that's fine.  

[strappinglad]

Is someone on this thread lobbying for a councilor/selor position in the FP ? It seems that anyone so knowledgable about the inner workings of the GAs would be the obvious choice should a position open up. Where do we send our support?

[Guest]

On May 23, 2017 at 4:19 PM, HappyJackWagon said:

Just by way of info...

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/president-monson-update

He deserves a rest, I think it selfish to have General Authorities, work day in and day out. They should be able to request emeritus status, not mandatory, but their choice. You can still have a senior Apostle, despite resigninations. 

[JAHS]

14 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

He deserves a rest, I think it selfish to have General Authorities, work day in and day out.

I agree he deserves a rest but I don't think anyone is being selfish and making them work day in and day out; they actually want to do it and would be upset if anyone tried to stop them.
But they are also smart enough to know when to slow down and only do what they can. 

[Guest]

On May 25, 2017 at 1:57 PM, JAHS said:

I agree he deserves a rest but I don't think anyone is being selfish and making them work day in and day out; they actually want to do it and would be upset if anyone tried to stop them.
But they are also smart enough to know when to slow down and only do what they can. 

I think that many feel pressure to do so by the fact their every hick up becomes a news story concerning the future of the Church. They are also seeking to live up to every example of past Prophets and Apostles. By all means they should do as they wish, my fear is that many fear what the public at large will think, and pass judgement...that is a powerful motivator. A motivator that very often leaves their wives as widows long before necessary. Although many seem to outlive their wives, and there is often those who feel like "Church widows", long before they become true widows. Elder Holland once spoke of this while speaking at our Stake Conference, how difficult it is for GA's to be away from family so much, especially in the later years of life when wives are able to accompany their husbands very often. I just love these men...everyone else gets to become emeritus some day, but never them.