strappinglad Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Christopher Hichens was once a fan of Chomsky, then he had a falling out . As has been said here, human nature must be taken into account when establishing welfare type programs. When Christ said ' the poor are always with us ' , was that a universal statement or just a local concern? Socialism works! see Venezuela !! Link to comment
Damien the Leper Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 5/29/2017 at 5:38 PM, strappinglad said: Christopher Hichens was once a fan of Chomsky, then he had a falling out . As has been said here, human nature must be taken into account when establishing welfare type programs. When Christ said ' the poor are always with us ' , was that a universal statement or just a local concern? Socialism works! see Venezuela !! Socialism works! See Utah prior to the 20th century!! Oh...wait...uh... Having grown up with the tired and ill claimed excuse as to why the LoC didn't work (the church wasn't ready for it), it seems clear that those with power who wish to enforce socialism using coercive tactics are, in fact, the enemy of socialism. Young, Stalin, Mao, Castro and Chavez are all alike to varying degrees. Link to comment
Hestia Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Don't compare church leaders to wicked men/criminals. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 6:17 AM, Darren10 said: Utah is consistently ranked as one of the best places to go for economic opportunities. Yet California has the largest economic growth of the next two states combined. 1 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 On 5/29/2017 at 5:38 PM, strappinglad said: Christopher Hichens was once a fan of Chomsky, then he had a falling out . As has been said here, human nature must be taken into account when establishing welfare type programs. When Christ said ' the poor are always with us ' , was that a universal statement or just a local concern? Socialism works! see Venezuela !! His was a statement of the way things are, not the way things should be. Link to comment
Glenn101 Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 4 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Yet California has the largest economic growth of the next two states combined. That also has caused a problem with housing and other living costs making it difficult for less well educated people to live comfortably. The tech sector in California has been a great part of that economic growth, a sector that requires a high level of education. But maybe I am looking only at the dark under side of the cloud and not the silver lining. Link to comment
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 4 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Yet California has the largest economic growth of the next two states combined. California is a big, lush, beautiful state that is constantly promoted as a wonderful place to live by practically everyone pretty much since it was established and has a wide variety of living environments, something for everyone. Utah is a desert with no beaches and massive heat in the summer and cold in the winter. Link to comment
MormonVideoGame Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Calm said: California is a big, lush, beautiful state that is constantly promoted as a wonderful place to live by practically everyone pretty much since it was established and has a wide variety of living environments, something for everyone. Utah is a desert with no beaches and massive heat in the summer and cold in the winter. However, Utah is less diverse and it doesn't have a cycle of poverty problem like other states, especially conservative states like West Virginia and Mississippi. Poor people seeking a better life move to California, not Utah. It's mostly the rich and middle class that visit Utah. I doubt it's conservatism that makes Utah a great state, and Utah is not that great because it denies climate science. Many in Utah, including it's senators, are happy the US left the Paris agreement. Link to comment
Calm Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said: Poor people seeking a better life move to California, not Utah. Almost 14% of Utah's population is now Hispanic. (Overall minority is 20%.) While in the last 5 years the increase is mostly due to birth, prior to that immigration into the state contributed heavily. There is a huge difference from when I used to visit my grandmother as a youth in the 60s and 70s and nowadays. And for the most part, these immigrants weren't middle class or rich. http://www.sltrib.com/home/4035282-155/census-utahs-latino-population-grows-to An 1996 article showing high immigration rate changes for monorities: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/500223/CHANGING-FACES--RECENTLY-GROWTH-OF-UTAHS-MINORITY-POPULATION-HAS-FAR-EXCEEDED-THAT-OF-WHITES.html Edited June 5, 2017 by Calm Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 5 hours ago, Calm said: California is a big, lush, beautiful state that is constantly promoted as a wonderful place to live by practically everyone pretty much since it was established and has a wide variety of living environments, something for everyone. Utah is a desert with no beaches and massive heat in the summer and cold in the winter. God has a strange method of picking promised lands to send his people to. 1 Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 On 5/10/2017 at 9:58 PM, Darren10 said: Perhaps racism but much more so in rhe early 20th century than it is now. Regadless of time, whenever an employer is forced to pay a minimum amount then it is the poor who get hurt the most. They are typically the most unskilled labor force in the market and therefore offer the least value to a company. In our country the urban poor are largly black. There is no evidence for that claim. The rural poor are largely white. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Virtually everything south of Bakersfield is desert. We ship water from northern California to the cities and farmlands of southern California. Link to comment
Wants2know Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 On 5/9/2017 at 7:01 PM, Tacenda said: Just saw this. Wow, kind of surprised to see it in the Deseret Newspaper vs. the Tribune! http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865679571/Op-ed-The-failures-of-Mormon-conservatism.html?pg=all Shoot, disregard the poor spelling please! I love this article. Love. Love. Love it. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 On 6/4/2017 at 5:00 PM, Glenn101 said: That also has caused a problem with housing and other living costs making it difficult for less well educated people to live comfortably. The tech sector in California has been a great part of that economic growth, a sector that requires a high level of education. But maybe I am looking only at the dark under side of the cloud and not the silver lining. I don't know the solution for under-skilled workers trying to make it in a high skill market. I went back to school, but realize that option isn't always open to everyone. Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 On 6/4/2017 at 2:40 PM, thesometimesaint said: Yet California has the largest economic growth of the next two states combined. Correct. Many people for generations wanted to get to California. It still has a very high property value simply because it s a desirable place to live. Over the past several decades the state of California has made decisions that are punitive to industry. High taxes, high regulations, and restrictions on accessing many natural resources such as water and petroleum has sent California's economy into crisis. The fact that their economy is so large buffers the impact of their bad economic decisions but it still has an effect. Toyota recently closed factories there and opened them up in much friendlier Texas. Uber closed its driverless car research and continued that research in much friendlier Arizona. Utah is also much more business friendly than California. With California's new single payer health care system approved and no way to pay for the extra $400 Billion their economy will further implode. We'll see what this results in. Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Here's a one picture photo essay on how well socialism works. It's a picture of the Korean peninsula at night time: Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 On 5/29/2017 at 7:38 PM, strappinglad said: Socialism works! see Venezuela !! So true!!! Link to comment
SteveO Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Darren10 said: So true!!! "It's because they didn't do it correctly" is always the response... Link to comment
Gray Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, SteveO said: "It's because they didn't do it correctly" is always the response... Free market cultists and communists are sipping from two sides of the same Kool Aid cup. Look what happened in Kansas. Or maybe they didn't do it right? Link to comment
SteveO Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Nevermind Edited June 8, 2017 by SteveO Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, SteveO said: "It's because they didn't do it correctly" is always the response... So, do you have the right way to do it? Let me / us know about it. Edited to add: Oh, I see, yes, I agree. Edited June 8, 2017 by Darren10 Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 7 hours ago, Gray said: Free market cultists and communists are sipping from two sides of the same Kool Aid cup. Look what happened in Kansas. Or maybe they didn't do it right? What happened in Kansas besides making the Wizard of OZ? Link to comment
Darren10 Posted June 8, 2017 Share Posted June 8, 2017 On 6/6/2017 at 0:54 PM, thesometimesaint said: I don't know the solution for under-skilled workers trying to make it in a high skill market. I went back to school, but realize that option isn't always open to everyone. One advantage a poor worker has over a middle class worker is that he/she will work for less to prove him/herself. You can't do that when markets are forced to guarantee equal wages; which always stiffs the poor. Link to comment
Gray Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 6/8/2017 at 1:07 AM, Darren10 said: What happened in Kansas besides making the Wizard of OZ? An experiment in radical tax reduction for the rich gone awry. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 On 6/7/2017 at 11:09 PM, Darren10 said: One advantage a poor worker has over a middle class worker is that he/she will work for less to prove him/herself. You can't do that when markets are forced to guarantee equal wages; which always stiffs the poor. No one is asking for equal wages for everyone. We are a Capitalistic economic system. We want people to work and work hard for their living. What we have minimum wage laws for is so private companies don't shift the burden of the costs of living of their employees onto the rest of us. Link to comment
Recommended Posts