Why is believing in God, and having Faith...so painful to those who have none?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do. It takes on the form of threads that seek to belittle the believing, or "drive by posts", for those who still have faith or testimonies of the Church. Here of course the focus is on belief and faith in God and in the Mormon Church. But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. 

Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. It is not enough that they no longer believe, they seek to swell their ranks in an effort to have others feel the sense of loss they are experiencing. Sometimes they return, or when invited back begin by being polite, and happy, "at peace" (if you will), only to get frustrated when their comments are not received as they might hope. Then it turns to silly jokes about those who still mount a defense of the Church, then more direct barbs, or being less polite and then anger. At this point, (as many have put it) that "they just can't go down this road again" (too paraphrase) or end up being limited or banned again. I am speaking of many forums where believers and atheists debate, but here it takes on the form of God and The Church, as on other forums, it is only about belief vs unbelief. On this site (obviously) it is about both atheists and those who have left the LDS Church, since one can leave the Church and still believe in God. By the way, everything I listed in this second paragraph is a two way street, as many if not most like to have their feeling reinforced. 

But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? I am sure so will say they are not hurt, but so often their threads and posts suggest people who are hurting. 

I would love to hear from all who have thoughts on this topic. 

[Meadowchik]

It doesn't seem to me that you understand ex-Mormons nearly enough to even ask productive questions.  

Do you really believe they are trying to multiply suffering?

Here's something your OP seems to be missing: many ex-Mormon feel much happier than they did as Mormons and they obviously want others to be free of what they perceive is the heavy and burdensome cognitive dissonance of Mormonism.

And, just to clarify because it is worth repeating: in response to the trope "ex-Mormons can leave the church but can't leave it alone:" ex-Mormons are like any other population that has left a highly controlling institution; they are subject to trauma from that experience, to a time of often painful transition before recovery, and they have just as much right as anyone to air their grievances about the LDS Church and its so-called doctrines.

Many leave the church as an act of integrity, in search of peace. Many find better lives outside the church and feel like they've become better than they once were.

 

[probablyHagoth7]

22 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? 

I think blinders can get in the way, that lead to arrogance and causing affront. If a believer has never wrestled with real doubt, or has never known a period of disbelief, it can be difficult for them to empathize and be patient/longsuffering with those who are wading through that reality.

Those who have never doubted might be better served by saying ''there but for the grace of God"....And/or might pray fervently to taste sufficient charity for those who struggle. 

Ministering to different needs involves widely different gifts.

Some of them take extensive time/effort to bloom.

Some are already gifted at ministering to people struggling with faith/belief. I make no claim to be good at that yet, but very much wish to become so.

Edited May 3, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[hope_for_things]

13 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do. It takes on the form of threads that seek to belittle the believing, or "drive by posts", for those who still have faith or testimonies of the Church. Here of course the focus is on belief and faith in God and in the Mormon Church. But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. 

Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. It is not enough that they no longer believe, they seek to swell their ranks in an effort to have others feel the sense of loss they are experiencing. Sometimes they return, or when invited back begin by being polite, and happy, "at peace" (if you will), only to get frustrated when their comments are not received as they might hope. Then it turns to silly jokes about those who still mount a defense of the Church, then more direct barbs, or being less polite and then anger. At this point, (as many have put it) that "they just can't go down this road again" (too paraphrase) or end up being limited or banned again. I am speaking of many forums where believers and atheists debate, but here it takes on the form of God and The Church, as on other forums, it is only about belief vs unbelief. On this site (obviously) it is about both atheists and those who have left the LDS Church, since one can leave the Church and still believe in God. By the way, everything I listed in this second paragraph is a two way street, as many if not most like to have their feeling reinforced. 

But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? I am sure so will say they are not hurt, but so often their threads and posts suggest people who are hurting. 

I would love to hear from all who have thoughts on this topic. 

I'm trying to think from my personal perspective here.  I will say that some days I definitely don't believe in God.  More recently I've been thinking that my mind actually holds two positions on the question.  One part of me is more believing that something divine does exist even though I can't describe it, and the other position that there is no God at all and any feelings otherwise are just an artifact of irrational thinking.  

All that said, I'm not sure I've ever felt harmed or hurt by those who believe in God.  I can think of a recent experience I had that might be applicable.  In the past as an orthodox LDS believer, I always was proud of public figures like athletes or other celebrities whenever they thanked God publicly for their success I always really appreciated those who would do that.  I felt like they were standing up for the right principle and my opinion of those people was greatly enhanced.  

Just recently I heard a public figure give credit to God and the way they did it rubbed me wrong.  I was a little surprised by my reaction, because I remembered how I used to feel when I heard statements like that, but now that my beliefs about God have changed, I felt very differently.  

This time I felt like the person was giving thanks to God out of a desire to win points with other believers, like their thanks to God wasn't genuine.  It also struck me as prideful to think that God would favor this individual over another individual, like God is picking sides in sporting events. I can tell you I felt bothered by it, and I was struck at how it bothered me and I remembered how I used to feel very differently.  

 

[probablyHagoth7]

27 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

It doesn't seem to me that you understand ex-Mormons nearly enough to even ask productive questions.  

Do you really believe they are trying to multiply suffering?

Here's something your OP seems to be missing: many ex-Mormon feel much happier than they did as Mormons and they obviously want others to be free of what they perceive is the heavy and burdensome cognitive dissonance of Mormonism.

And, just to clarify because it is worth repeating: in response to the trope "ex-Mormons can leave the church but can't leave it alone:" ex-Mormons are like any other population that has left a highly controlling institution; they are subject to trauma from that experience, to a time of often painful transition before recovery, and they have just as much right as anyone to air their grievances about the LDS Church and its so-called doctrines.

Many leave the church as an act of integrity, in search of peace. Many find better lives outside the church and feel like they've become better than they once were.

I was under the impression that he was asking about doubters/nonbelievers and believers who cause affront trying to evangelize others to their point of view.

I would imagine we would all readily agree that those who do such are a limited subset of the rest. 

So I don't think for one minute that Bill was trying to pigeon-hole everyone into the same category.

[probablyHagoth7]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

This time I felt like the person was giving thanks to God out of a desire to win points with other believers, like their thanks to God wasn't genuine.  It also struck me as prideful...I can tell you I felt bothered by it, and I was struck at how it bothered me and I remembered how I used to feel very differently.  

I have friends who raise their hands and say "praise God" when something good happens to anyone. While I'm grateful that they acknowledge his hand in such things, their preferred way of accomplishing that simply wouldn't work for me, and would feel  contrived.

We're all wired a bit differently. What might *seem* disingenuous/uncomfortable to us might be quite the opposite for the person saying/doing it.

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do. It takes on the form of threads that seek to belittle the believing, or "drive by posts", for those who still have faith or testimonies of the Church. Here of course the focus is on belief and faith in God and in the Mormon Church. But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. 

Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. It is not enough that they no longer believe, they seek to swell their ranks in an effort to have others feel the sense of loss they are experiencing. Sometimes they return, or when invited back begin by being polite, and happy, "at peace" (if you will), only to get frustrated when their comments are not received as they might hope. Then it turns to silly jokes about those who still mount a defense of the Church, then more direct barbs, or being less polite and then anger. At this point, (as many have put it) that "they just can't go down this road again" (too paraphrase) or end up being limited or banned again. I am speaking of many forums where believers and atheists debate, but here it takes on the form of God and The Church, as on other forums, it is only about belief vs unbelief. On this site (obviously) it is about both atheists and those who have left the LDS Church, since one can leave the Church and still believe in God. By the way, everything I listed in this second paragraph is a two way street, as many if not most like to have their feeling reinforced. 

But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? I am sure so will say they are not hurt, but so often their threads and posts suggest people who are hurting. 

I would love to hear from all who have thoughts on this topic. 

Sorry this is so quick, but I think Elder Christofferson addressed this dynamic in the "shame culture" in his recent GC talk https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/the-voice-of-warning?lang=eng

(copied):

"Sometimes those who raise a warning voice are dismissed as judgmental. Paradoxically, however, those who claim truth is relative and moral standards are a matter of personal preference are often the same ones who most harshly criticize people who don’t accept the current norm of “correct thinking.” One writer referred to this as the “shame culture”:

“In a guilt culture you know you are good or bad by what your conscience feels. In a shame culture you know you are good or bad by what your community says about you, by whether it honors or excludes you. … [In the shame culture,] moral life is not built on the continuum of right and wrong; it’s built on the continuum of inclusion and exclusion. …

“… Everybody is perpetually insecure in a moral system based on inclusion and exclusion. There are no permanent standards, just the shifting judgment of the crowd. It is a culture of oversensitivity, overreaction and frequent moral panics, during which everybody feels compelled to go along. … 

“The guilt culture could be harsh, but at least you could hate the sin and still love the sinner. The modern shame culture allegedly values inclusion and tolerance, but it can be strangely unmerciful to those who disagree and to those who don’t fit in.”

I think we saw this exemplified in a recent thread that discussed the value of setting people up into classes/categories of LDS belief and thought, which I think is an approach leveraging a dependency on what your community / crowd says about you, and finding purpose in controlling that narrative.

[Daniel2]

Speaking for myself, I don't feel 'harmed' at all by the beliefs of others.... unless and until those beliefs negatively affect, curtail, restrict, or terminate my personal, familial, or social relationships and or civil liberties and protections.

In my experience, many (even most?) people seem to have a common trait of wanting to share the happiness they derive from their sense of truth, beauty, value, or belief with others... What you perceive as non-believers "sowing seeds of doubt in believers" is the flip-side of the coin of believers' desire to share 'The Great Plan of Happiness' that all "might partake of the white fruit of the tree of life" of which Lehi spoke.  Said differently, gatherings of non-believers who congregate to discuss their non-belief could also be likened to Fast and Testimony Meetings of those who do believe... We seem to have an innate desire--especially within Mormonism--to proselytize, to convert, to share that white fruit with others.  Those that leave the Faith don't loose that missionary zeal in our drive for truth and happiness any more or less than those that continue to believe do.

I am happy for and support my many LDS family members, friends, co-workers, and acquaintances in their LDS beliefs, especially when those beliefs bring meaning, value, support, and happiness in their lives.  I don't always feel that same support is reciprocated by some of my LDS friends, family, etc, but I'm happy to say that it is by many of them. 

I try to keep perspective that the internet discussion boards and even social media can tend to dehumanize and exacerbate the drive to argue, win, prove wrong, etc., and, at least in my life, isn't as reflective of the real life phenomenon of being willing to live and let live.  Heck, even my husband and I don't share the exact same beliefs about God--but our love overcomes any differences we share, and we support and love one another despite having different thoughts about what the afterlife may hold for us.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Daniel2

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

I think blinders can get in the way, that lead to arrogance and causing affront. If a believer has never wrestled with real doubt, or has never known a period of disbelief, it can be difficult for them to empathize and be patient/longsuffering with those who are wading through that reality.

Those who have never doubted might be better served by saying ''there but for the grace of God"....And/or might pray fervently to taste sufficient charity for those who struggle. 

Ministering to different needs involves widely different gifts.

Some of them take extensive time/effort to bloom.

Some are already gifted at ministering to people struggling with faith/belief. I make no claim to be good at that yet, but very much wish to become so.

I have been a member for 38 years, and if someone asked today (as I have been asked many times by those who do not believe in the Church) "How long did you are have you investigated the Church"? My answer would right now be 38 years. I don't know anyone of any age who has never had doubts...well our primary children maybe. I usually do well with most unbelievers and those having doubts, as I always try to be understanding, and can certainly handle understanding doubt. Many of my writings and poems deal with my own doubts at times. What I struggle with is the anger that many have for those who choose to believe or have faith, and that anger that comes out in belittling threads and posts. This is the question I have and what I struggle to understand. Your post is well thought out and written, but I am not speaking of those who are gifted at ministering to non-believers, but the anger of the non-believers, who seem to feel the need to spread their anger and doubt, to all who will read, or listen. 

[MormonVideoGame]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. 

It has to do more with depression, certain online activity is a symptom of depression. People that leave a strict religion need professional therapy.  Please don't judge them. 

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. 

Many Christians are no different, especially in conservative blogs. 
At least the atheists are mad that secular freedom is under attack. 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

It doesn't seem to me that you understand ex-Mormons nearly enough to even ask productive questions.  

Do you really believe they are trying to multiply suffering?

Here's something your OP seems to be missing: many ex-Mormon feel much happier than they did as Mormons and they obviously want others to be free of what they perceive is the heavy and burdensome cognitive dissonance of Mormonism.

And, just to clarify because it is worth repeating: in response to the trope "ex-Mormons can leave the church but can't leave it alone:" ex-Mormons are like any other population that has left a highly controlling institution; they are subject to trauma from that experience, to a time of often painful transition before recovery, and they have just as much right as anyone to air their grievances about the LDS Church and its so-called doctrines.

Many leave the church as an act of integrity, in search of peace. Many find better lives outside the church and feel like they've become better than they once were.

 

This sums up much of what I spoke of, and I did address the fact than many feel or claim to be happier. Did you miss this part? But this happiness for many takes on the form of attacks, not just of the Church, but those who remain. I did not demonize any for leaving, for not believing, but talked about the anger and frustration that comes out of this "peace and happiness" (both of which I referred too) that seems to cause pain because others still believe, and results in "threads and posts" that often begin gentle and kind, and then build to bad jokes and harsh comments when others do not see the Church or belief in God as they do. Your last sentence, "Many leave the Church as an act of integrity, in search of peace". This seems to suggest that those who remain lack both "integrity and peace". Also "so-called doctrines" and "controlling", is this an example of "leaving the Church alone"? I think many of your comments and terms are making my point, little or no peace, and anger towards the believing. You have ever right to "air your grievances", but how do you feel this approach will make believers happy? 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

It has to do more with depression, certain online activity is a symptom of depression. People that leave a strict religion need professional therapy.  Please don't judge them. 

Wow, not judging anyone, just asking questions as to why? Are you suggesting that people who leave the Mormon Church are all depressed and need "professional therapy"? Most all Faith's have (what many may call) strict moral codes, but our Faith does not force anyone to obey...it is free will. One of our most cherished tenants, "Free Agency". 

[Bobbieaware]

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do. It takes on the form of threads that seek to belittle the believing, or "drive by posts", for those who still have faith or testimonies of the Church. Here of course the focus is on belief and faith in God and in the Mormon Church. But on other websites it is a constant, effort, anger, or "full court press" to convince others...or lead others into unbelief. 

Non-believers, and those who have left or are losing faith in the Church, seem to need a reinforcement that comes through their efforts to plant the "seeds of doubt" in those who still believe. It is not enough that they no longer believe, they seek to swell their ranks in an effort to have others feel the sense of loss they are experiencing. Sometimes they return, or when invited back begin by being polite, and happy, "at peace" (if you will), only to get frustrated when their comments are not received as they might hope. Then it turns to silly jokes about those who still mount a defense of the Church, then more direct barbs, or being less polite and then anger. At this point, (as many have put it) that "they just can't go down this road again" (too paraphrase) or end up being limited or banned again. I am speaking of many forums where believers and atheists debate, but here it takes on the form of God and The Church, as on other forums, it is only about belief vs unbelief. On this site (obviously) it is about both atheists and those who have left the LDS Church, since one can leave the Church and still believe in God. By the way, everything I listed in this second paragraph is a two way street, as many if not most like to have their feeling reinforced. 

But the common thread or this thread is to ask why the unbelieving seemed harmed (hurt) by those who believe in God, for the atheists, and for those who have left or losing faith in the Church, by those who remain faithful? I am sure so will say they are not hurt, but so often their threads and posts suggest people who are hurting. 

I would love to hear from all who have thoughts on this topic. 

The account of Korihor the anti-Christ, as found in Alma chapter 30 of the Book of Mormon, is instructive. When the prophet Alma confronted Korihor in response to Korihor's ongoing efforts to destroy the Church of Christ by means of destroying the testimonies of believers, Alma observed he knew Korihor still believed in God even though Korihor appeared to be supremely confident in his assertions that he knew for certain there was no God.

42 Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God. (Alma 30) 

Later, after Korihor was humbled to the dust by the power of God. he admitted to all that Alma was correct in his assessment, for the whole time he claimed to know for a surety there is no God in his heart he always continued to know that God lived.

52 And Korihor put forth his hand and wrote, saying: I know that I am dumb, for I cannot speak; and I know that nothing save it were the power of God could bring this upon me; yea, and I always knew that there was a God. (Alma 30)

So the simple and most obvious answer to your question is this: many of the people of whom you speak are spiritually at war with themselves (the flesh warring against the spirit). and for this reason they seek to destroy the faith of others in order to continually re convince their carnal minds (the unbelieving part of human nature) that they are right to believe there is no God. But the problem is their believing spirits continue to know there is a God and the whisperings of their spirits continually unsettle and torment their conflicted souls. Their is no peace for the wicked.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Bobbieaware

[JulieM]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

 What I struggle with is the anger that many have for those who choose to believe or have faith, and that anger that comes out in belittling threads and posts. 

I've got to say that lately I've seen more of these types of posts (not threads) coming from the believing TBM posters than from those who no longer believe or who doubt.

I love your openness, Papa, and I don't feel you're judging here.  You raise some great points and questions.  

I'm just pointing out that these types of posts come from both sides at times.

Edited May 4, 2017 by JulieM

[Calm]

1 hour ago, MormonVideoGame said:

It has to do more with depression, certain online activity is a symptom of depression. People that leave a strict religion need professional therapy. 

 

CFR for all three statements

[MormonVideoGame]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

CFR for all three statements

 "Internet users who are compulsive about going online and have more social interactions in virtual worlds than the real one may be depressed, according to a new study."

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20100204/internet-addiction-linked-to-depression#1

"We find that people who are raised and stay in high-cost sectarian groups, such as the Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, have better self-reported health than those raised and staying in other religious traditions. However, people who leave such groups are more likely to report worse health than those who leave other groups."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20943593

Is that enough?  

2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

One of our most cherished tenants, "Free Agency". 

see above 

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

 "Internet users who are compulsive about going online and have more social interactions in virtual worlds than the real one may be depressed, according to a new study."

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20100204/internet-addiction-linked-to-depression#1

"We find that people who are raised and stay in high-cost sectarian groups, such as the Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, have better self-reported health than those raised and staying in other religious traditions. However, people who leave such groups are more likely to report worse health than those who leave other groups."

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0022146510378236

Is that enough?  

see above 

 

Your source is opinion pieces that don't like Churches in general, and our Church along with the JW, as a bases for Mormon who leave need professional help. No basis there...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JulieM said:

I've got to say that lately I've seen more of these types of posts (not threads) coming from the believing TBM posters than from those who no longer believe or who doubt.

I love your openness, Papa, and I don't feel you're judging here.  You raise some great points and questions.  

I'm just pointing out that these types of posts come from both sides at times.

True, it is why in my second paragraph, that this is a street or river that flows both ways. Thank you for your imput. 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Calm said:

CFR for all three statements

Second that CFR...

[MormonVideoGame]

37 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Your source is opinion pieces that don't like Churches in general, and our Church along with the JW, as a bases for Mormon who leave need professional help. No basis there...

You have to be kidding me! What a waste of my precious time

My source is the Journal of Health and Social Behavior (JHSB), " a medical sociology journal that publishes empirical and theoretical articles that apply sociological concepts and methods to the understanding of health and illness and the organization of medicine and health care"

31 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Second that CFR...

 "Internet users who are compulsive about going online and have more social interactions in virtual worlds than the real one may be depressed, according to a new study."

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20100204/internet-addiction-linked-to-depression#1

"We find that people who are raised and stay in high-cost sectarian groups, such as the Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, have better self-reported health than those raised and staying in other religious traditions. However, people who leave such groups are more likely to report worse health than those who leave other groups."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20943593

This is the last time I am going to reply to you. I am adding you to my ignore list. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Daniel2]

46 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Your source is opinion pieces that don't like Churches in general, and our Church along with the JW, as a bases for Mormon who leave need professional help.

Not sure I follow what you mean here, Papa...

Are you saying that you believe that The Journal of Health and Social Behavior and The US National Library of Medicine and the National Institute of Heath (the sources that MormonVideoGame quoted from) are "opinion pieces that don't like Churches in general"...? 

If so, do you have evidence that that is the case? 

Or are we misunderstanding you....? 

Can you help us understand what you mean, here...?

Edited May 4, 2017 by Daniel2

[Calm]

51 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

 

"We find that people who are raised and stay in high-cost sectarian groups, such as the Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, have better self-reported health than those raised and staying in other religious traditions. However, people who leave such groups are more likely to report worse health than those who leave other groups."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20943593

Is that enough?  

 

Where does it say they need professional therapy?

Not all exmormons who post on Mormon related boards even in Papa's description are compulsive in behaviour.

while depression might contribute to some of this behaviour, it seems a huge stretch to suggest depression is the primary cause of it or that all exmormons need to have professional therapy, suggesting they are mentally dysfunctional.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Calm

[MormonVideoGame]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Where does it say they need professional therapy?

 "Internet users who are compulsive about going online and have more social interactions in virtual worlds than the real one may be depressed, according to a new study."

http://www.webmd.com/depression/news/20100204/internet-addiction-linked-to-depression#1

I never said all people that leave a strict religion need therapy, but clearly some online ex-mormons do, especially if they spend hours everyday talking about the church on the internet. The pain is real. 

All online ex-mormons don't think the same, there is no single reason why they attack the church.

Edited May 4, 2017 by MormonVideoGame

[Glenn101]

32 minutes ago, MormonVideoGame said:

"We find that people who are raised and stay in high-cost sectarian groups, such as the Latter-day Saints and Jehovah’s Witnesses, have better self-reported health than those raised and staying in other religious traditions. However, people who leave such groups are more likely to report worse health than those who leave other groups."

That is an interesting observation. I am wondering if it applies to everyone who leaves such a group, i.e. those that just slide into inactivity as opposed to those who actively and vocally leave such a group. 

I also wonder why the LDS is labelled as a "high cost" religion. Meadowchik referred to it as a controlling religion. It does have a strict moral code and there are blessings/ordinances that are not available to those who do not adhere to the code to an acceptable (and spelled out degree). I have been a member for a pretty long time and never have felt "controlled."

I do believe that there are areas where the "Mormon" culture is ubiquitous that there may be social controls that could lead to such feelings. I can see why a person might feel relieved/happier if they can free themselves from the beliefs in that strict moral code.

Glenn

[Tsuzuki]

6 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have noticed over many years, that to those who do not believe in God, or to those who have no Faith, seem harmed by those who do.

When beliefs intersect politics, there can be real harm.

There's also the fact that this is a discussion board, so it should be no surprise that I bring my views to the table. You should see my posts on Thelemic message boards. We're more ruthless with each other.
"As brothers fight ye!" - Liber AL vel Legis III:59